HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Rink
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The Rink For the not so ready for prime-time players, coaches, referees, and the people that have to live with them. Discuss experiences in local leagues, coaching tips, equipment, and training.

Creatine

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-18-2012, 04:56 PM
  #26
Jarick
Moderator
Doing Nothing
 
Jarick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: St Paul, MN
Country: United States
Posts: 23,657
vCash: 500
Heavy lifting with protein and creatine for me made me put on weight really quick, which is a bad thing for me.

Jarick is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-18-2012, 05:19 PM
  #27
rk5n
Registered User
 
rk5n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 58
vCash: 500
Creatine is a supplement. And not a very good one. It may help you add a pound or two of muscle, it may help you add weight to your lifts, it will cause you to retain a little water, but most importantly it will not cause all of these bizarre side affects listed in this thread. Take it if you really want to, but don't expect to see much of a difference.

rk5n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2013, 12:27 PM
  #28
SkateThroughIt
Registered User
 
SkateThroughIt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: United States
Country: United States
Posts: 76
vCash: 500
I do not NEED creatine, but I do use it before college games. Men's league I usually do a beer. The reason I take creatine and other pre-workout supplements is that they prevent me from being lazy. I noticed no difference in putting on more muscle, or any other affect other than my mood.

I'm a two-way forward (T.J. Oshie - skill haha) so for me the addition of weight is a plus.

SkateThroughIt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2013, 12:30 PM
  #29
Chip Chipperson
Registered User
 
Chip Chipperson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Ted's Emporium
Country: Belize
Posts: 1,805
vCash: 50
Don't do it bro, I don't want to see you on the next episode of intervention.


Chip Chipperson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-24-2013, 06:38 PM
  #30
Puckstop40
Registered Avs Fan
 
Puckstop40's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Gig Harbor, WA
Country: United States
Posts: 1,781
vCash: 500
People saying supplements don't help; I would have to assume they probably have never taken them correctly. Now, by saying this, I do not believe every single supplement is good for you, but creatine has proven to be safe and effective when taken properly. Supplements are there to help get that extra little bit of peak performance. I'm studying excercise physiology right now and one of the most common topics brought up in the physical science field is creatine supplementation. Taking 10g of creatine in a cycle before work outs/training/game day/ etc. has shown to cause up to 15% in performance gains.

I would recommend creatine if you're involved in a very high level of activity that requires a lot of intensity. If not, it is not essential. A proper diet will get you more noticeable gains than supplements. Many people mistake supplements as shortcuts. They are there for those looking to get every last bit of peak performance.

Puckstop40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2013, 09:00 AM
  #31
sanityplease
Registered User
 
sanityplease's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 776
vCash: 50
I don't use it, I'm a protein & glutamine guy.

sanityplease is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2013, 10:43 AM
  #32
The Tikkanen
Pest
 
The Tikkanen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Yorba Linda
Country: United States
Posts: 6,411
vCash: 50
Send a message via AIM to The Tikkanen
I've been using pre-workout supplements for the last 10 years before I work out or play hockey. I'm 40 now, have never had any kidney or health issues. I'll agree with the other poster who said take everybody's advice with a grain of salt. The guy saying creatine is bad for you and he just lives off red meat and water could weight 300 lbs and is a long shift away from stroking out. Or it could be a 15 year old kid who doesn't need supplements. You also have people who never smoke get lung cancer and people who smoke 2 packs a day live to be 100. You're dealing with the human body and anybody who says because I do this it's the only way are ignorant. Or "my friend got fat so it's bad", dude, you're gonna fail Speech & Debate 101 if you ever make it to JC. Best route to go is to find a program that works for YOU. If you're interested in creatine do some research, pick a brand and try it out and see how you feel.

The Tikkanen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2013, 10:59 AM
  #33
dr robbie
Let's Go Pens!
 
dr robbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: St. Louis
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,449
vCash: 500
I've used creatine twice and I've been working out for about 3 years now. I gave it a good chance both times, but I honestly didn't notice any difference with it. I think my biggest gains have been from changing my routine as opposed to changing my supplements.

dr robbie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-29-2013, 11:35 AM
  #34
Thesensation19
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,493
vCash: 500
If you can stay away from supplements, do it. I would say supplements are required only if your deficient in that certain vitamin or nutrient. Unprocessed foods (organic when you can) can offer you any and all vitamins and nutrients you want/need.

Creatine for example is already produced mostly in your own body. Wild game of fish and meat can then take up the rest of the amount of creatine you need.

Here is why.
http://www.myfit.ca/foods_high_in_creatine.asp

Synthetic Creatine like all supplements cause side effects. Synthetic Creatine MAY cause weight gain, nausea, stomach problems, dehydration as well as muscle cramps, kidney issues, hypertension and much more.





***************
You say that you do a lot of crossfit and hockey. Depending the exact definition you have of "A LOT" would depend how much more creatine your body needs and if you should even care to take a supplement at all. Like I said, I would highly recommend staying natural as best as possible.

If you are truly doing a lot of it. Probably somewhere near everyday activity. And I would even have to go as far as saying if you doing two-a-days consistently is when you should CONSIDER doing supplements like Creatine.

Thesensation19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-29-2013, 11:57 AM
  #35
kento19
@kento19
 
kento19's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: St. John's
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,622
vCash: 50
Creatine is prove effective, but I don't think it's much of a need for hockey players or somebody who does crossfit. It will make you gain weight which will slow you down. It is just water weight though. Once you stop taking it you will notice a few pounds have dropped from your scale, and your body wont look as bloated.
As for physical boost. It will give you gains at the gym. Not much but some. I went up 10 pounds after a week the first time I took it in dumbell press, but in all fairness I was about ready to go up 5 pounds that week anyway. So really it helped me push 75 pounds per hand instead of 70 which isn't that much of an increase. When i stopped using it my lifts stayed the same as well. There was no decrease.

Creatine is up to you. IT doesn't hurt but it isn't going to help much for hockey purposes either. If you love the gym and love lifting more and looking a little bigger it's an easy way to go.

kento19 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-29-2013, 12:59 PM
  #36
Thesensation19
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,493
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kento19 View Post
Creatine is prove effective, but I don't think it's much of a need for hockey players or somebody who does crossfit. It will make you gain weight which will slow you down. It is just water weight though. Once you stop taking it you will notice a few pounds have dropped from your scale, and your body wont look as bloated.
As for physical boost. It will give you gains at the gym. Not much but some. I went up 10 pounds after a week the first time I took it in dumbell press, but in all fairness I was about ready to go up 5 pounds that week anyway. So really it helped me push 75 pounds per hand instead of 70 which isn't that much of an increase. When i stopped using it my lifts stayed the same as well. There was no decrease.

Creatine is up to you. IT doesn't hurt but it isn't going to help much for hockey purposes either. If you love the gym and love lifting more and looking a little bigger it's an easy way to go.
That is not entirely all true. Creatine is a necessary part of your body and physical ability. The more you work out and exhaust yourself, the more creatine your body needs. But 50% of the creatine in your body is naturally made like Testosterone.

Creatine is found in wild game. Beef contains like 5g of creatine. Salmon just about the same. No side effects. Creatine helps in building lean muscle and gives you necessary energy for it.

Synthetic Creatine as I explained above is a supplement like in which you are talking about, where it is a concentrated amount of creatine you intake at a given time. But like I said, it creates dehydration and other underlining issues. So unless your doing two-a-days and you need faster recovery, why take a supplement when you can have the real thing? You never really want to start intaking something that causes you to dehydrate. Even if you drink more water or eat more fruits, your just basically counter balancing the two every time.

Benefits of having natural creatine like beef is that beef also supplies you with other natural nutrients like protein, iron, zinc and much much more and it tastes way better. But dont have red meat or salmon too much in a week or in a day.

Its important to have a well diverse diet.

Thesensation19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-29-2013, 01:06 PM
  #37
Thesensation19
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,493
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr robbie View Post
I've used creatine twice and I've been working out for about 3 years now. I gave it a good chance both times, but I honestly didn't notice any difference with it. I think my biggest gains have been from changing my routine as opposed to changing my supplements.
You cannot take a supplement twice and expect to see a difference. Nor three or five times. You have to take it regularly to see a difference.

But I am glad you seem to understand that the work out itself is more important. I use to do a bit of simple workouts in my house like push ups and squats, hit the gym and isolate it by doing back one day and legs another and then do a jog every so often a week.

Now I go to the gym and do more of a full body routine. Doing compound exercises like Olympic weight lifting, mix it in with some gymanstics like dips and pull ups, then my cardio is sprints or stairs. A lot of it is also diet. I eat less salt, less added sugar, less bread/grains, more protein and more vegetables/fruit. I do isolated workouts once in a while to mix it up and jogs i also minimized but still do.

I have not necessarily lost weight but I def lost a lot of fat. I have become more flexible and less tense. I have become stronger and faster as the work outs are more functional for regular activity. Overall more fit as well.

Thesensation19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-29-2013, 01:22 PM
  #38
Kesselology
81 Jump Street
 
Kesselology's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Country: United States
Posts: 1,617
vCash: 50
I know some kids that used to be jacked in high school using lots of creatine, who then became lazy and stopped working out in college. They all look terrible - saggy biceps are simply not a turn on for anyone and certainly wouldn't help your on-ice performance. I'm no nutritionist so I can't give you any hard numbers or cite any studies, but unless you're really willing to commit then I would leave it on the shelf.

Kesselology is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-29-2013, 01:51 PM
  #39
Smif
Registered User
 
Smif's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hamilton
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,671
vCash: 500
Being a former certified sports nutritionist I find this thread both hilarious and concerning. It seems like a lot of people are tinkering with things that they have no background information about which can be very dangerous. In my personal opinion I would only use creatine for a limited amount of time, mainly to help get yourself over a plateau. First and foremost though, eat healthy, take your vitamins, take a green supplement, take a protein drink or smoothie, then after you're doing all that try a glutamine supplement, then after that try creatine if you must. It's only for the serious gym rats and there's lots of other things you should be changing/trying first.

Smif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-29-2013, 02:53 PM
  #40
intangible
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 835
vCash: 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundinology View Post
I know some kids that used to be jacked in high school using lots of creatine, who then became lazy and stopped working out in college. They all look terrible - saggy biceps are simply not a turn on for anyone and certainly wouldn't help your on-ice performance. I'm no nutritionist so I can't give you any hard numbers or cite any studies, but unless you're really willing to commit then I would leave it on the shelf.
Who would ever think that lazy people who stop working out would become flabby, saggy fat people? Must be the creatine!

intangible is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-29-2013, 02:58 PM
  #41
Thesensation19
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,493
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smif View Post
Being a former certified sports nutritionist I find this thread both hilarious and concerning. It seems like a lot of people are tinkering with things that they have no background information about which can be very dangerous. In my personal opinion I would only use creatine for a limited amount of time, mainly to help get yourself over a plateau. First and foremost though, eat healthy, take your vitamins, take a green supplement, take a protein drink or smoothie, then after you're doing all that try a glutamine supplement, then after that try creatine if you must. It's only for the serious gym rats and there's lots of other things you should be changing/trying first.
Basically. Well said.

Thesensation19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-29-2013, 03:22 PM
  #42
Thesensation19
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,493
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkateThroughIt View Post
I do not NEED creatine, but I do use it before college games. Men's league I usually do a beer. The reason I take creatine and other pre-workout supplements is that they prevent me from being lazy. I noticed no difference in putting on more muscle, or any other affect other than my mood.

I'm a two-way forward (T.J. Oshie - skill haha) so for me the addition of weight is a plus.
I cant say I agree with this at all. I know its all preference but I think you have it all wrong.

First off, if you are a "Two Way Forward" then I dont know if weight is what you need. With more "weight" then you are basically heavier AND have to carry around more weight for longer periods. Being an effective two way player would mean you are reliable for a strong forecheck and backchecking game. You need to have a ton of energy.

A beer or creatine does not give you that. Both will cause dehydration actually and have you less flexible (so less powerful) and less energized. You might feel an energy effect for taking a supplement before a game, but try having a banana with coffee/tea. (honey or sugar on the raw if you must have sweet). Apple I feel gives me most sugar burst.

Look at modern day training. Especially for hockey players. Its no longer about how much you can lift. More and more trainers and thus players are going with less weight and more functional movements to increase flexibility, proper form, balance and proper power and strength gain. Less and less players are caring about obtaining more weight but rather trying to obtain their ideal body weight which allows them to be very strong, produce a lot of force but still be quick and fast

Thesensation19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-29-2013, 05:53 PM
  #43
Kesselology
81 Jump Street
 
Kesselology's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Country: United States
Posts: 1,617
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by intangible View Post
Who would ever think that lazy people who stop working out would become flabby, saggy fat people? Must be the creatine!
Well yes, but when you're around age 20 and you go from looking like an actual athlete to dragging your triceps on the floor in a half-year span then I don't think it's just the general laziness at fault.

Kesselology is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-30-2013, 12:07 AM
  #44
Caeldan
Moderator
 
Caeldan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,392
vCash: 732
Quote:
Originally Posted by r3cc0s View Post
everyone I know who pushes a low carbohydrate and HIT workout routine have seen great looking results, however when it comes down to performing at a top physical and mental level across 60 minutes of high intensity sports... outside of the gains due to weight loss and increased aerobic conditioning have lost their "peak" strength for any extended duration

just an observation... nobody should be eating twinkies and pounding back redbull... but eating quality lean proteins (hemp hearts lets say), good fats, vegetables, high fiber and complex carbs (like granola or Rye's) is a better and more sustainable diet which is more conducive to providing the fuel required to perform at a top level

whereas, the south beach ultra low carb, protein based diet is used to make metabolic adjustments to cause the body to become more effecient at using glyogen rather than storing it as fat

its just not sustainable to "confuse" your body like that and expect to perform at your highest level
Paleo isn't South Beach or Atkins. It is not by default 'ultra low carb'.
It's basically what you described, minus the grains. Sweet Potatoes/Yams/Jicama or your various varieties of squash all are nice dense carb foods for meeting your glucose needs (not to mention the carbs found in fruit which is perfectly acceptable as long as you're not doing a specific low sugar protocol). There are some proponents of it (Robb Wolf I believe is a low carb type), but others such as Cordain have written quite a bit about making sure you eat enough carbs to sustain your activity level.
You also make adjustments like pre-workout meals being protein and fat, since fat is the best energy source for your body to burn. Carbs in meals post-workout for recovery, and try to stick more to vegetable based carbs vs fruit carbs generally while in the immediate recovery period.

On topic of supplements, I don't personally - but if I did the only ones I'd consider would be Protein Isolate, Glucosamine/MSM (more for maintenance), and BCAA (I've heard quite a few people lauding this one for recovery).

Caeldan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-30-2013, 01:35 AM
  #45
SkateThroughIt
Registered User
 
SkateThroughIt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: United States
Country: United States
Posts: 76
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thesensation19 View Post
I cant say I agree with this at all. I know its all preference but I think you have it all wrong.

First off, if you are a "Two Way Forward" then I dont know if weight is what you need. With more "weight" then you are basically heavier AND have to carry around more weight for longer periods. Being an effective two way player would mean you are reliable for a strong forecheck and backchecking game. You need to have a ton of energy.

A beer or creatine does not give you that. Both will cause dehydration actually and have you less flexible (so less powerful) and less energized. You might feel an energy effect for taking a supplement before a game, but try having a banana with coffee/tea. (honey or sugar on the raw if you must have sweet). Apple I feel gives me most sugar burst.
What I meant by my post was that I use creatine before workouts and real games that matter, not mens league. Creatine definitely helps with energy, and I stay properly hydrated. I don't use it for more weight in workouts, I use it for more reps and a longer workout.

I am a physical player as well, that was the oshie reference, so that's where I'm willing to sacrifice a little bit of speed/agility for weight.

SkateThroughIt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-30-2013, 07:59 AM
  #46
Thesensation19
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,493
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rk5n View Post
Creatine is a supplement. And not a very good one. It may help you add a pound or two of muscle, it may help you add weight to your lifts, it will cause you to retain a little water, but most importantly it will not cause all of these bizarre side affects listed in this thread. Take it if you really want to, but don't expect to see much of a difference.
The symptoms of taking SYNTHETIC creatine I posted earlier is what I got off one particular website but you can see it on any valid reference you wish to select from. I have seen it on several sites, a few books on nutrition and supplements and so on.

All supplements have side effects. Some negligible, some dangerous. Yet I believe even the negligible side effects can be dangerous when you take it constantly.

It starts with dehydration. Dehydration can then cause headaches, nausea and long term effects of constantly being dehydrated is internal issues which is a wide range of things. Even if you drink more water, you better be drinking the right amount or you could be over hydrating.

Worse part is that synthetic supplements in your body are often treated like foreign bodies so they become diuretics and make you piss out most of what you need from it, and even more dehydrated lol. Oh and constipation


Too much creatine can further cause issues for your liver and kidney, especially synthetic versions.


By having creatine supplement once in a while you may not develop serious issues. But why even care to try it often? Just eat more meat and fish during the week especially on your training days. Eat right, sleep right, train hard and relax...

Thesensation19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-30-2013, 08:20 AM
  #47
Thesensation19
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,493
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkateThroughIt View Post
What I meant by my post was that I use creatine before workouts and real games that matter, not mens league. Creatine definitely helps with energy, and I stay properly hydrated. I don't use it for more weight in workouts, I use it for more reps and a longer workout.

I am a physical player as well, that was the oshie reference, so that's where I'm willing to sacrifice a little bit of speed/agility for weight.
If it works for you than who am I to tell you different. I just think there are far more beneficial pre-game things you can put into your body in terms of performance and health no matter what sport or role you play

Thesensation19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-30-2013, 10:24 AM
  #48
Smif
Registered User
 
Smif's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hamilton
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,671
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundinology View Post
Well yes, but when you're around age 20 and you go from looking like an actual athlete to dragging your triceps on the floor in a half-year span then I don't think it's just the general laziness at fault.
A lot of people who blow up like a blowfish at the gym get asked how they do it or what supplements they're taking. Most of the time people don't want to admit they're using steroids so they answer by saying they're using creatine. By the sounds of the guys you're describing it doesn't sound possible that creatine would be to blame. Most likely steroids and lots of french fries.

Smif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-30-2013, 10:43 AM
  #49
AngryBoss
Registered User
 
AngryBoss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 658
vCash: 500
I'll give you my experience with using Creatine for nearly 3 years.

I gained 20lbs, got a LOT stronger (benched 315 five times at my max), and was really jacked up.

Then I noticed some hair-loss.
There is no hair loss in my family. I know everyone says that, but both my grandfathers died with full heads of hair in their 80's.
Uncles and cousins on both sides have hair that John Stamos would be jealous of.

I did tonnes of research on the subject and despite a total lack of scientific evidence pointing to creatine and hair loss, I found dozens of websites where people complained of the same thing.
On one certain hair-restoration website, a doctor posted hundreds of emails he received on the subject. He said he would get dozens of them each day where someone asked if creatine was connected to hair loss, because they started thinning after a few months of use.
Finally, in 2009, a group from Sweden(?) that tested the affects of creatine and hairloss.
The proved that Creatine caused the increase of DHT - the cause of hair loss.
I stopped using it after I read that and since then my hairline has stayed the same and the small amount of thinning I saw on the crown of my head was restored.

Also, there are links to kidney damage with Creatine.
(I never experienced any though. But I only used for 3 years).

Outside of that, the only other negative is that with pressing larger weights, you better hope your form is right or else you'll add more stress to your joints which will lead to problems down the road.
I have long arms so when I bench, my elbows go below 90-degrees.
That's terrible for the shoulders. But while on Creatine, I didn't notice. I just kept throwing up more weights.

Now that I'm off the stuff, I have a lot more pain in my knees, elbows and shoulders due to my poor form.

I've corrected that now, and through natural means, and proper form, I'm getting closer to the totals I lifted while on Creatine.

I really do believe going natural is a lot better in the long run.
Nobody here knows exactly how much damage can be done to your kidney's, joints and even hair follicles.

Going natural also sets you up for a healthier lifestyle well past your prime years.
And a great supliment is protein shakes. (do your research on that as well. Avoid ones high in cholesterol).
But I have found that eating lots of lean meats, veggies and fruit really does a body good.

But if you're bound and determined to put on some lb's and push your max lifts to the limits, Creatine will certainly help do the trick.

AngryBoss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-30-2013, 10:53 AM
  #50
AngryBoss
Registered User
 
AngryBoss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 658
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rk5n View Post
Creatine is a supplement. And not a very good one. It may help you add a pound or two of muscle, it may help you add weight to your lifts, it will cause you to retain a little water, but most importantly it will not cause all of these bizarre side affects listed in this thread. Take it if you really want to, but don't expect to see much of a difference.
LOL! So true.
People that claim it changes their moods make me laugh.
Unlike steroids, it does not alter your testosterone levels at all.

If there's a personality change, it's all in their head. Or, more likely, they gained more muscle and became an even bigger d'bag because of it.

AngryBoss is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:25 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.