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Penguins #3 prospect

View Poll Results: Who is our #3 prospect?
Josh Archibald (20, Nebraska-Omaha/WCHA) 0 0%
Teddy Blueger (18, Minnesota State/WCHA) 0 0%
Nick D'Agostino (23, Cornell/ECAC) 0 0%
Brian Dumoulin (21, Wilkes-Barre/AHL) 39 26.17%
Scott Harrington (20, London/OHL) 99 66.44%
Eric Hartzell (24, Quinnipiac/ECAC) 3 2.01%
Tristan Jarry (18, Edmonton/WHL) 3 2.01%
Tom Kühnhackl (21, Wilkes-Barre/AHL) 2 1.34%
Matia Marcantuoni (19, Kitchener/OHL) 0 0%
Jayson Megna (23, Wilkes-Barre/AHL) 1 0.67%
Bryan Rust (21, Notre Dame/CCHA) 0 0%
Oscar Sundqvist (19, Skellefteå AIK Juniors/SWE) 0 0%
Dominik Uher (20, Wilkes-Barre/AHL) 0 0%
Scott Wilson (21, UMass-Lowell/Hockey East) 0 0%
Anton Zlobin (20, Val d'Or/QMJHL) 2 1.34%
Voters: 149. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-25-2013, 01:43 PM
  #26
GaryT
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Voted Hartzell, because I missed the other poll, but but Eric is defiantly top 2, probably 1.

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07-25-2013, 01:45 PM
  #27
Ogrezilla
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryT View Post
Voted Hartzell, because I missed the other poll, but but Eric is defiantly top 2, probably 1.
I defiantly disagree.

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07-25-2013, 01:47 PM
  #28
DoctrSteveBrule
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryT View Post
Voted Hartzell, because I missed the other poll, but but Eric is defiantly top 2, probably 1.
is that you, Eric?

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07-25-2013, 01:54 PM
  #29
GaryT
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
I defiantly disagree.
Why he has the skill and size to play right now, the other ones can't play yet.

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07-25-2013, 01:55 PM
  #30
DoctrSteveBrule
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Originally Posted by GaryT View Post
Why he has the skill and size to play right now, the other ones can't play yet.
Adam Payerl may play some in the NHL this year. Is he a better prospect than Oskar Sundqvist?

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07-25-2013, 02:02 PM
  #31
GaryT
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Originally Posted by DoctrSteveBrule View Post
Adam Payerl may play some in the NHL this year. Is he a better prospect than Oskar Sundqvist?
That's not the same thing, Eric has already had huge success at the last level he was in.

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07-25-2013, 02:07 PM
  #32
Ogrezilla
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryT View Post
Why he has the skill and size to play right now, the other ones can't play yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryT View Post
That's not the same thing, Eric has already had huge success at the last level he was in.
Hartzell has never played professional hockey in his life just like the kids you are talking about. He is not going to be playing right now.

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07-25-2013, 02:09 PM
  #33
Ragamuffin Gunner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
that seems about right. Is Hartzell definitely above Jarry? I have no idea how to look at a goalie prospect.
Hartz is better than Jarry right now. Jarry may have the most potential but he's so far away it's hard to justify putting him ahead of some who is as accomplished as Hartz.

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07-25-2013, 02:10 PM
  #34
DoctrSteveBrule
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryT View Post
That's not the same thing, Eric has already had huge success at the last level he was in.
Tristan Jarry had a .936 save% in 27 games in the WHL last year.
Derrick Pouliot led WHL defensemen in playoff scoring with 20 points in 21 games and was second in PPG among defensemen over the regular season at just over a PPG.

I guess they didn't have success at the last level they were at...?

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07-25-2013, 02:10 PM
  #35
Ogrezilla
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Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
Hartz is better than Jarry right now. Jarry may have the most potential but he's so far away it's hard to justify putting him ahead of some who is as accomplished as Hartz.
fair enough. This is why I pretty much stop voting once we get out of the top guys. I just know too little about them.

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07-25-2013, 02:17 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
fair enough. This is why I pretty much stop voting once we get out of the top guys. I just know too little about them.
you should keep voting anyways. voting is fun.

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07-25-2013, 02:18 PM
  #37
GaryT
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
Hartzell has never played professional hockey in his life just like the kids you are talking about. He is not going to be playing right now.
Well that's just what you think. Eric has already been practicing with the Penguins, and like I said he's had huge success at his last level, even more so than the others (he was USA college hockey player of the year), and people who have followed that team said he carried the team. On top of that he has the size (same size as rask) and skill to be called up quick too. What more does a top prospect have to have?

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07-25-2013, 02:18 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctrSteveBrule View Post
Adam Payerl may play some in the NHL this year. Is he a better prospect than Oskar Sundqvist?
That's not a great analogy because the development of goalies is so much different from forwards. Just look at how many starting goalies today were drafter in the first 3 rounds vs the starters in the 4th or higher.

Hartz has proven that he can be a stud as a starter and has played in some big time games leading the #1 team to the NCAA Championship game and a Baker finalist. He's gonna be in the AHL this year pushing for the starting job.

Jarry hasn't even proven he can start on his jr team yet and is years away from turning pro.

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07-25-2013, 02:19 PM
  #39
Le Magnifique 66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryT View Post
Voted Hartzell, because I missed the other poll, but but Eric is defiantly top 2, probably 1.
Completely disagree but you're entitled to your opinion. Personally I don't see him before #5 and that's only if we are taking about ready prospects cause I believe Jarry's ceiling is higher

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07-25-2013, 02:21 PM
  #40
DoctrSteveBrule
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
That's not a great analogy because the development of goalies is so much different from forwards. Just look at how many starting goalies today were drafter in the first 3 rounds vs the starters in the 4th or higher.

Hartz has proven that he can be a stud as a starter and has played in some big time games leading the #1 team to the NCAA Championship game and a Baker finalist. He's gonna be in the AHL this year pushing for the starting job.

Jarry hasn't even proven he can start on his jr team yet and is years away from turning pro.
its a pretty terrible analogy to what is actually the case but following that guy's reasoning for saying Hartzell is the best prospect in the organization, it sure fits.

Jarry has proven something the the NHL scouts and myself, during the times I've seen him so I really have no reason to take ol GaryT's word as gospel haha


Last edited by DoctrSteveBrule: 07-25-2013 at 02:28 PM.
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07-25-2013, 02:21 PM
  #41
Ogrezilla
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Originally Posted by GaryT View Post
Well that's just what you think. Eric has already been practicing with the Penguins, and like I said he's had huge success at his last level, even more so than the others (he was USA college hockey player of the year), and people who have followed that team said he carried the team. On top of that he has the size (same size as rask) and skill to be called up quick too. What more does a top prospect have to have?
Harrington and Dumoulin are both closer to being in the NHL than Hartzell.

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07-25-2013, 02:30 PM
  #42
Ragamuffin Gunner
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Of the goalies who played 20 or more games last year here are the ones drafted in the first 3 rounds and 4th or higher. Almost 50/50:

First 3 rounds
Ondrej Pavelec
Jimmy Howard
Ilya Bryzgalov
Carey Price
Devan Dubnyk
Jonathan Quick
Tuukka Rask
Kari Lehtonen
Semyon Varlamov
Marc-Andre Fleury
Corey Crawford
Cory Schneider
Martin Brodeur
Craig Anderson
Jacob Markstrom
Ben Bishop
Steve Mason
Roberto Luongo

4th or higher
Viktor Fasth
Jonas Hiller
Miikka Kiprusoff
Joey MacDonald
Pekka Rinne
Henrik Lundqvist
Antti Niemi
Niklas Backstrom
Evgeni Nabokov
Ryan Miller
Sergei Bobrovsky
Braden Holtby
Mike Smith
James Reimer
Brian Elliott
Anders Lindback
Ray Emery
Ben Scrivens
Tomas Vokoun

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07-25-2013, 02:31 PM
  #43
Le Magnifique 66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
That's not a great analogy because the development of goalies is so much different from forwards. Just look at how many starting goalies today were drafter in the first 3 rounds vs the starters in the 4th or higher.

Hartz has proven that he can be a stud as a starter and has played in some big time games leading the #1 team to the NCAA Championship game and a Baker finalist. He's gonna be in the AHL this year pushing for the starting job.

Jarry hasn't even proven he can start on his jr team yet and is years away from turning pro.
That's because he was a rookie. If you compare the stats between the 2 you will see Jarry outplayed the veteran but in Juniors it's rare they go with the kids. Jarry will be the starter in Edmonton this year

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07-25-2013, 02:32 PM
  #44
GaryT
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Originally Posted by DoctrSteveBrule View Post
Tristan Jarry had a .936 save% in 27 games in the WHL last year.
Derrick Pouliot led WHL defensemen in playoff scoring with 20 points in 21 games and was second in PPG among defensemen over the regular season at just over a PPG.

I guess they didn't have success at the last level they were at...?
I never said they didn't have success, but Eric has just had more at his last level.
Quote:
Hartzell, 24, helped Quinnipiac win the ECAC regular-season title and earn the school’s first-ever Frozen Four berth by posting a 30-7-5 record, 1.57 goals-against average and a. 933 save percentage with five shutouts. Those numbers included a 21-game unbeaten streak (18-0-3) between Nov. 9-Feb. 9.

The Hobey Baker Award (best college hockey player) finalist took home several major awards this year, including USCHO Player of the Year, 2013 ECAC Player of the Year, ECAC Hockey Ken Dryden Goaltender of the Year, a selection to the ECAC First-Team All-Star squad, a spot on the All-New England All-Star team and a selection to the CollegeHockeyNews.com's First-Team.

A native of White Bear Lake, Minnesota, Hartzell helped Quinnipiac lead the nation in overall team defense by allowing two or fewer goals in 35 of his 42 starts.
http://penguins.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=672361

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07-25-2013, 02:38 PM
  #45
DoctrSteveBrule
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Originally Posted by GaryT View Post
I never said they didn't have success, but Eric has just had more at his last level.


http://penguins.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=672361
i never said Hartzell had a bad year. And yes thats a wonderful article. Have you ever even watched Tristan Jarry play? Or even Eric Hartzell for that matter? Because they both have similar stats at their respective levels last year.

Hartzell may have played at a tougher level last year but he's also 6 years older.

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07-25-2013, 02:51 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
Hartz is better than Jarry right now. Jarry may have the most potential but he's so far away it's hard to justify putting him ahead of some who is as accomplished as Hartz.

When you are looking at the 2 goalies, look at 2 key things since we are talking about prospects.

1) Jarry was a second round pick, Hartz was undrafted.
2) Jarry is 18 to Hartz 24. In 6 years, do you believe Jarry will have surpassed Hartz where he is now.....basically, I would think that by 24, Jarry will have played plenty of AHL games, and maybe some NHL games. It's hard to say, but the fact that the Pens moved up to get him leads me to believe they feel this way as well.

Nothing against Hartz, as he may become the better pro, but based on projections, I'd say Jarry is the better PROSPECT.

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07-25-2013, 03:01 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ogelthorpe View Post
When you are looking at the 2 goalies, look at 2 key things since we are talking about prospects.

1) Jarry was a second round pick, Hartz was undrafted.
2) Jarry is 18 to Hartz 24. In 6 years, do you believe Jarry will have surpassed Hartz where he is now.....basically, I would think that by 24, Jarry will have played plenty of AHL games, and maybe some NHL games. It's hard to say, but the fact that the Pens moved up to get him leads me to believe they feel this way as well.

Nothing against Hartz, as he may become the better pro, but based on projections, I'd say Jarry is the better PROSPECT.
That's how you look at skaters, goalies are much different.

1 - Being a 2nd round pick means nothing for goalies. Just look at the list I posted. over 50% of the goalies who played 20+ games last year were 4th rounders or higher, with many being un-drafted.

2 - In 6 years Jarry could be a stud, but he could just as easily be another Joel Gistedt or Antoine Lafleur or Trevor Cann or Jeremy Smith. Those were the first 4 goalies drafted in 2007 and were all 2nd rounders. Then in 2008 you have Chet Pickard and Thomas McCollum drafted ahead of Jacob Markstrom and Jake Allen.

Just because a team likes a goalie in their draft year doesn't mean he'll turn out to be a stud (or even a backup in the NHL).

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07-25-2013, 03:01 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Ogelthorpe View Post
When you are looking at the 2 goalies, look at 2 key things since we are talking about prospects.

1) Jarry was a second round pick, Hartz was undrafted.
2) Jarry is 18 to Hartz 24. In 6 years, do you believe Jarry will have surpassed Hartz where he is now.....basically, I would think that by 24, Jarry will have played plenty of AHL games, and maybe some NHL games. It's hard to say, but the fact that the Pens moved up to get him leads me to believe they feel this way as well.

Nothing against Hartz, as he may become the better pro, but based on projections, I'd say Jarry is the better PROSPECT.
Agreed. Well said. Now go tell Bylsma to play Bennett in the top 6.

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07-25-2013, 03:14 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Ogelthorpe View Post
When you are looking at the 2 goalies, look at 2 key things since we are talking about prospects.

1) Jarry was a second round pick, Hartz was undrafted.
2) Jarry is 18 to Hartz 24. In 6 years, do you believe Jarry will have surpassed Hartz where he is now.....basically, I would think that by 24, Jarry will have played plenty of AHL games, and maybe some NHL games. It's hard to say, but the fact that the Pens moved up to get him leads me to believe they feel this way as well.

Nothing against Hartz, as he may become the better pro, but based on projections, I'd say Jarry is the better PROSPECT.
Well I hope Jarry does turn out to be really good, so I'm not complaining.

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07-25-2013, 03:25 PM
  #50
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Going with Harztell. Our G situation is more critical than the 3rd or 4th best D on our prospect list, and he's closer to being ready than Jarry given his age. And he seems to have the pedigree for it.

You guys are too fixated on ranking our D prospects.
Needs =/= Potential/Projections

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