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Cody Franson

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Old
07-25-2013, 12:44 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Cor99 View Post
Don't listen to him. We aren't trading Franson for Grossman
amen.

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07-25-2013, 12:45 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Cor99 View Post
Don't listen to him. We aren't trading Franson for Grossman
With the Leafs plethora of PMDs and their lack of defensive Dmen, they may want to at least consider this offer...it isn't all that far off, really...

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07-25-2013, 12:47 PM
  #28
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My qualm is down the road, I just don't see a spot for him. I like him as a player, always did, but I just don't see any reasonable way you find room for him at his ~3M cap hit in 2 or 3 years when you have Phaneuf, Gardiner, and Rielly. May as well move him while he has some rfa years and some controllability cost wise, to a team with surplus veteran defensive guys.
2-3 years from now Gards and Reilly will be making 2-3M each (Rielly is on his ELC until the end of the 2015/16 season)... so how does Franson's 3M cap hit affect ANYTHING?

On top of that, all 3 of those guys are LHD and Franson is a RHD and yet you "don't see a spot for him"?

Your suggestion that we move him for a prospect (leaving Phaneuf and Gunnar as our only two veteran D) would also mean missing the playoffs next year. You can't replace his 28 points from the blue line with NOTHING.

Unbelievable.


Major overreaction to an incorrect assumption on the Leafs cap situation on your part.

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07-25-2013, 12:53 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by veedubn1 View Post
2-3 years from now Gards and Reilly will be making 2-3M each (Rielly is on his ELC until the end of the 2015/16 season)... so how does Franson's 3M cap hit affect ANYTHING?

On top of that, all 3 of those guys are LHD and Franson is a RHD and yet you "don't see a spot for him"?

Your suggestion that we move him for a prospect (leaving Phaneuf and Gunnar as our only two veteran D) would also mean missing the playoffs next year. You can't replace his 28 points from the blue line with NOTHING.

Unbelievable.


Major overreaction to an incorrect assumption on the Leafs cap situation on your part.
The concern is the complete lack of defensive awareness within the top 4. You can't have a top 4 where the teams only defensive strength is chasing down breakaways. And it isn't a "Major overreaction to an incorrect assumption". Jonas Siegel was on TSN Radio this morning and asserted that trading Cody Franson has been batted around by Leafs head office.

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07-25-2013, 01:03 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by StuckOutHere View Post
The concern is the complete lack of defensive awareness within the top 4. You can't have a top 4 where the teams only defensive strength is chasing down breakaways. And it isn't a "Major overreaction to an incorrect assumption". Jonas Siegel was on TSN Radio this morning and asserted that trading Cody Franson has been batted around by Leafs head office.
I'm concerned about that.

I'd love to move out one of Phaneuf or Franson to bring in a ~Vlasic/Hamhuis/Girardi/M.Staal/etc type of player.

Legitimate top pairing elite defensive dman. With Rielly/Gardiner/Ranger/Gunnarson/Percy/Granberg/Finn + one of Phaneuf/Franson to fill out the rest of the blueline.

We DON'T need all four of Rielly/Gardiner/Phaneuf/Franson IMO. SC calibre teams do not have four defencemen capable of 40+ points. They have a good balance of offensive/defensive guys, and a shutdown pairing that is simply better than Gunnarsson-Phaneuf.

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07-25-2013, 01:04 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripod View Post
Does he not fit what the OP was looking for? A Big, defensive D-man that blocks lots of shots. And is only 28 so has lots of hockey left.
We aren't trading Franson for Nik ****ing Grossman

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07-25-2013, 01:05 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
I'm concerned about that.

I'd love to move out one of Phaneuf or Franson to bring in a ~Vlasic/Hamhuis/Girardi/M.Staal/etc type of player.

Legitimate top pairing elite defensive dman. With Rielly/Gardiner/Ranger/Gunnarson/Percy/Granberg/Finn + one of Phaneuf/Franson to fill out the rest of the blueline.

We DON'T need all four of Rielly/Gardiner/Phaneuf/Franson IMO. SC calibre teams do not have four defencemen capable of 40+ points. They have a good balance of offensive/defensive guys, and a shutdown pairing that is simply better than Gunnarsson-Phaneuf.
Precisely this.

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07-25-2013, 01:07 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Cor99 View Post
We aren't trading Franson for Nik ****ing Grossman
To be fair, I never said it was a done deal. But this team needs a Top 4 DFD badly. Someone who maybe doesn't have a sexy name but can keep the game honest. That's why I suggested names like Brooks Orpik and Barrett Jackman in the OP.

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07-25-2013, 01:15 PM
  #34
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Franson finished in the top ten among all defenseman in points, assists and hits last season. And he is one of only 48 defenseman to score 100 or more points over the last four seasons, despite missing more than 50 games over that stretch. Based on his long term productivity and his recent playoff performance, he could end up with a pretty lucrative deal if he has become widely recognized as a legitimate candidate for a top pairing.

In comparing the top fifty scoring defenseman over the past two seasons which includes Franson, the average cap hit was roughly $4.4 million. Subban signed a cap friendly extension earlier this year with an annual $2.875 million cap hit and won the Norris Trophy, while Franson didn’t receive a vote despite a career year. However, last season Franson had more points in less ice time and fewer games and a better +/- than fellow teammate Phaneuf, who has an annual cap hit of $6.5 million. And over the past three seasons, he has more points in fewer games and a better +/- and points per game average than Bouwmeester, who has an annual cap hit of $6.68 million. These are just a couple of examples that could sway the pendulum in either direction, and there are so many other cases that could be made using basic or advanced methods of evaluation.

The Leafs would have to hope for a bridge deal valued lower than Subban, but Franson could be holding out for something longer term closer to the $4-5 million range, which would cause cap issues unless they somehow found a way to move Liles, Kulemin or McClement and made room. If he were to receive an offer sheet at this level pending any recent changes to the CBA, the Leafs would receive 1st and 3rd round picks as compensation if they weren’t able to match or arrange a sign-and-trade, and lean on Liles, Gardnier and Ranger to make up for the loss in production.

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07-25-2013, 01:16 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StuckOutHere View Post
The concern is the complete lack of defensive awareness within the top 4. You can't have a top 4 where the teams only defensive strength is chasing down breakaways. And it isn't a "Major overreaction to an incorrect assumption". Jonas Siegel was on TSN Radio this morning and asserted that trading Cody Franson has been batted around by Leafs head office.
1 - "complete lack of defensive awareness" = shot at Phaneuf and an incredible exaggeration... I was wondering where the motivation for this thread truly came from and now we know.

But I'll play along and assume you're talking about our d-corps and not just Phaneuf. I guess it would be foolish to suggest that Rielly and Gards become more defensively responsible as they continue to develop? You're right.. let's just assume they won't have ANY defensive awareness throughout their careers. Brilliant.

2 - Jonas Siegel's job is to manufacture news to give him something to talk about. That's why he's on TALK radio. Did he also mention that Nonis has probably had discussions about trading nearly EVERYONE on the roster (after Nonis said "no one is untouchable") during this summer?

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07-25-2013, 01:19 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Alex Mills View Post

In comparing the top fifty scoring defenseman over the past two seasons which includes Franson, the average cap hit was roughly $4.4 million. Subban signed a cap friendly extension earlier this year with an annual $2.875 million cap hit and won the Norris Trophy, while Franson didn’t receive a vote despite a career year. However, last season Franson had more points in less ice time and fewer games and a better +/- than fellow teammate Phaneuf, who has an annual cap hit of $6.5 million. And over the past three seasons, he has more points in fewer games and a better +/- and points per game average than Bouwmeester, who has an annual cap hit of $6.68 million. These are just a couple of examples that could sway the pendulum in either direction, and there are so many other cases that could be made using basic or advanced methods of evaluation.
I'd LOVE to see Franson's +/- if he were playing TOP defensive minutes over a full season.

Franson was a bottom pairing dman for 2/3s of the season. He was a +12 at one point. He finished hte season a +4... so essentially over the course of a month or so, he was a -8 playing SECOND pairing minutes, not even top pairing minutes.

+/- is only a useful stat if you consider the context. Fraser had the highest +/- on the team.. does that mean he's our best defensive player? JvR/Kulemin were both minus players, I guess they suck defensively?

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07-25-2013, 01:26 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by veedubn1 View Post
1 - "complete lack of defensive awareness" = shot at Phaneuf and an incredible exaggeration... I was wondering where the motivation for this thread truly came from and now we know.

But I'll play along and assume you're talking about our d-corps and not just Phaneuf. I guess it would be foolish to suggest that Rielly and Gards become more defensively responsible as they continue to develop? You're right.. let's just assume they won't have ANY defensive awareness throughout their careers. Brilliant.

2 - Jonas Siegel's job is to manufacture news to give him something to talk about. That's why he's on TALK radio. Did he also mention that Nonis has probably had discussions about trading nearly EVERYONE on the roster (after Nonis said "no one is untouchable") during this summer?
...I like Phaneuf? And you don't bet the life of your d-core of players who have shown limited defensive acumen magically showing some.

And Jonas was on-air to discuss advanced stats. He had no reason to name drop anyone without merit.

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07-25-2013, 01:41 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
I'm concerned about that.

I'd love to move out one of Phaneuf or Franson to bring in a ~Vlasic/Hamhuis/Girardi/M.Staal/etc type of player.

Legitimate top pairing elite defensive dman. With Rielly/Gardiner/Ranger/Gunnarson/Percy/Granberg/Finn + one of Phaneuf/Franson to fill out the rest of the blueline.

We DON'T need all four of Rielly/Gardiner/Phaneuf/Franson IMO. SC calibre teams do not have four defencemen capable of 40+ points. They have a good balance of offensive/defensive guys, and a shutdown pairing that is simply better than Gunnarsson-Phaneuf.
I'd love to move Phaneuf for a Top 3 Elite defensive Dman who is Right handed and fits within the age criteria, but there are not many defensemen who are in the similar value range like that...

Girardi - Highly doubt he's moved
Hamonic - Highly doubt he's moved
Seabrook - Highly doubt he's moved
Z.Michalek - Small chance he's moved
Klein - Highly doubt he's moved

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07-25-2013, 02:17 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by 416Leafer View Post
I'd LOVE to see Franson's +/- if he were playing TOP defensive minutes over a full season.

Franson was a bottom pairing dman for 2/3s of the season. He was a +12 at one point. He finished hte season a +4... so essentially over the course of a month or so, he was a -8 playing SECOND pairing minutes, not even top pairing minutes.

+/- is only a useful stat if you consider the context. Fraser had the highest +/- on the team.. does that mean he's our best defensive player? JvR/Kulemin were both minus players, I guess they suck defensively?
It would be interesting to see, and he deserves a shot. And there are significant relevancies with linemates, matchups and quality of ice time and competition that bleed into player evaluation.

Franson may have struggled with +/- down the stretch, but it sounds like that was his first chance to show what he could do with that level of increased responsibility and a new partner, and there’s always an adjustment period. In the playoffs, he had an even rating, six points, 33 hits and a 20% shooting percentage in seven games, and was one of the three stars of Game 7 with two goals and eight hits over 27 minutes of ice time against a -2 rating and ultimately losing the puck battle to the clutch Marchand on the overtime series clincher. A lot of growth in a short span.

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07-25-2013, 02:22 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Alex Mills View Post
It would be interesting to see, and he deserves a shot. And there are significant relevancies with linemates, matchups and quality of ice time and competition that bleed into player evaluation.

Franson may have struggled with +/- down the stretch, but it sounds like that was his first chance to show what he could do with that level of increased responsibility and a new partner, and there’s always an adjustment period. In the playoffs, he had an even rating, six points, 33 hits and a 20% shooting percentage in seven games, and was one of the three stars of Game 7 with two goals and eight hits over 27 minutes of ice time against a -2 rating and ultimately losing the puck battle to the clutch Marchand on the overtime series clincher. A lot of growth in a short span.
You're forgetting the assist on the first Bruins goal of game seven

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07-25-2013, 02:30 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Cor99 View Post
Don't listen to him. We aren't trading Franson for Grossman
There would have to be a hell of a + along with Grossman for the Leafs to pull the trigger.

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07-25-2013, 02:32 PM
  #42
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You're forgetting the assist on the first Bruins goal of game seven
Not forgotten. The Gardiner screen didn't help much either.

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07-25-2013, 02:38 PM
  #43
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I would consider something around Roman Polak+Max Gardiner from St. Louis.

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07-25-2013, 02:38 PM
  #44
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We aren't trading Franson for Nik ****ing Grossman



That was funny for some reason. Good times.

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07-25-2013, 07:23 PM
  #45
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$3.5-4.0M for Franson?

I believe Nonis is more intelligent than that.

Franson will be lucky to get more than $2.5M, and even that would be a stretch.

Marc-André Bergeron +.

Present day Tom Bladon.

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07-26-2013, 11:32 AM
  #46
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Franson trade speculation will heat up. Leafs would like to keep him, but $$ is too much. Prospect and draft pick fair return?

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07-26-2013, 11:34 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by beauchamp View Post
$3.5-4.0M for Franson?

I believe Nonis is more intelligent than that.

Franson will be lucky to get more than $2.5M, and even that would be a stretch.

Marc-André Bergeron +.

Present day Tom Bladon.
Yeah, uh I believe even YOU are more intelligent than that.

Franson is a 3 million minimum player. It all depends on the term.

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07-26-2013, 11:43 AM
  #48
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nonis is just seeing the value for someone like franson... calm down guys. if he gets an offer that is ridiculous and he cant refuse he will take it or he will sign him

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07-26-2013, 11:43 AM
  #49
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Good fit for NYI. Hamonic and Cody would be nice.

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07-26-2013, 12:43 PM
  #50
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Cody Franson for Erik Gudbranson.

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