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Old
07-24-2013, 12:10 PM
  #26
TaLoN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
So Yeo's system worked until Heatley, Cullen, and Brodziak weren't 100%? Doesn't that mean they should get the credit and not him?
So I take it you would want Richards back in the OP's scenario then? I'm confused, this thread isn't about a third option for coach. The OP said if you HAD to choose between the two, which would you take?

Everyone who says Yeo, you are taking as a chance to rip Yeo...and Yeo has reasons to be ripped, but in comparison to Richards he's a Saint.

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07-24-2013, 12:14 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
So Yeo's system worked until Heatley, Cullen, and Brodziak weren't 100%? Doesn't that mean they should get the credit and not him?
Two responses;
1. Heatley has a lot more value to this roster than most posters acknowledge. Yeo did eventually adapt the second line "system" to the N-S strength. He did ask too much of Brodziak, even though a lot of us thought that there was just something off about his game.

2. My biggest complaint with Yeo is a failure to rapidly adapt to the roster strengths. He falls into the camp of Bylsma, Babcock and Julien of wanting all four lines to play the same way and in the same system. Those three other franchises all have comparable cogs to leverage the same system, for all of the different lines.

A Jack Adams level coach, on the other hand, needs to be the curve buster. Each line may need to have a separate "system" or style of play. Tippet is about the only coach I can name off the top of my head who has different "systems" in place for each of his lines.

It was a bit crazy watching the Coyotes in the playoffs two seasons ago. His first line would be "all in" on puck pressure and possession. His second line would go out as a 1-2-2. His third line was all about dump and chase, and his fourth line was all about the 0-3-2.

Hell... I do that in beer league. For my "first line", it is all about the outlet passes to the forwards that can carry the puck. For the next, I trend towards a 1-2-2, with the center tasked with forechecking which allows the slower wings to get into the zone and go to their spots. Out of my 4 consistent D, I only "allow" one to pinch. The other three are more "stay-at-home" preventers than anything offensive in nature.

/shrug

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Old
07-24-2013, 12:22 PM
  #28
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Lemaire

2008-09
Points: 89
GFA: 2.61
GAA: 2.40
PP: 20.1%
PK: 87.6%

Richards

2009-10
Points: 84
GFA: 2.61
GAA: 2.92
PP: 19.1%
PK: 82.7%

2010-11
Points: 86
GFA: 2.48
GAA: 2.78
PP: 18.2%
PK: 82.8%

Yeo

2011-12
Points: 81
GFA: 2.02
GAA: 2.65
PP: 15.1%
PK: 82.4%

2012-13
Points: 94*
GFA: 2.46
GAA: 2.60
PP: 17.9%
PK: 81.7%

The big thing I see is that under Richards, the team moved away from the defensive style which caused them to lose more often, and under Yeo the defense tightened back up, which gave them a chance to win. But the biggest problem with Yeo thus far is the power play, which was a huge reason they got bounced in the first round.

Meanwhile if you look at Columbus:

2011-12
Points: 65
GFA: 2.42
GAA: 3.13
PP: 15.5%
PK: 76.6%

2012-13
Points: 94*
GFA: 2.40
GAA: 2.40
PP: 14.2%
PK: 82.6%

Under Richards, the team turned around defensively, DRASTICALLY. Which is funny, because that was his biggest problem with the Wild. And it's not like he went out and got Henrik Lundqvist and Zdeno Chara, he added Jack Johnson and Sergei Bobrovsky.



Look, I have no idea what's going to happen next year or which coach is better, but I think at the end of the day, the players are a hell of a lot more important.

What's going to be the biggest thing for me is if Yeo can improve the power play, improve his matchups, and keep the team from collapsing. The coach should help them from getting too high or too low, which has been their biggest problem these last two seasons. We can't see another late-season collapse.

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Old
07-24-2013, 12:26 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bozak911 View Post
Two responses;
1. Heatley has a lot more value to this roster than most posters acknowledge. Yeo did eventually adapt the second line "system" to the N-S strength. He did ask too much of Brodziak, even though a lot of us thought that there was just something off about his game.

2. My biggest complaint with Yeo is a failure to rapidly adapt to the roster strengths. He falls into the camp of Bylsma, Babcock and Julien of wanting all four lines to play the same way and in the same system. Those three other franchises all have comparable cogs to leverage the same system, for all of the different lines.

A Jack Adams level coach, on the other hand, needs to be the curve buster. Each line may need to have a separate "system" or style of play. Tippet is about the only coach I can name off the top of my head who has different "systems" in place for each of his lines.

It was a bit crazy watching the Coyotes in the playoffs two seasons ago. His first line would be "all in" on puck pressure and possession. His second line would go out as a 1-2-2. His third line was all about dump and chase, and his fourth line was all about the 0-3-2.

Hell... I do that in beer league. For my "first line", it is all about the outlet passes to the forwards that can carry the puck. For the next, I trend towards a 1-2-2, with the center tasked with forechecking which allows the slower wings to get into the zone and go to their spots. Out of my 4 consistent D, I only "allow" one to pinch. The other three are more "stay-at-home" preventers than anything offensive in nature.

/shrug
I'd agree with that, and it comes down to the "identity" part. Yeo wanted his four lines to have the same identity, which is not possible because you have different levels of talent. Asking your top line to dump and chase and grind is as ridiculous as asking your fourth line to skate the puck into the offensive zone and play a puck possession game.

Looking at the roster moves this summer, I think Yeo has a BIG time opportunity to rectify that mistake, and give each of his lines a unique identity. Get away from the trap of matching top line against top line, allowing your defensive players to focus on defense and offensive players to focus on offense.

I think Yeo is going to make those adjustments and the team is going to be better off for it. I'm not anti-Yeo in terms of his future, I just think what he's shown to this point has not been impressive. I don't like what the team has done under him given the improvement of talent last season. They should have been better. Not to mention the historic, unprecedented collapse the year before.

But for me I would have him on a very short leash next year.

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Old
07-24-2013, 12:31 PM
  #30
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Sergei Bobrovsky was better than Lundqvist though...so yeah, it's like he got someone better.

When you watched that Columbus team late last season, did the forwards pass the eye test? For me, that answer was a resounding no.

Columbus was always on their heels, the opposition always in control, getting high quality chances with Bob standing on his head stealing games.

Pominville's second game with the Wild against those BJ's, the Wild completely out classed them, and Bob was unable to stand on his head either...played well though, but was not his spectacular self, the game was never close.

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07-24-2013, 12:33 PM
  #31
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part of the difficulty in transitioning from Lemaire/Risebrough to ?/fletcher is that it takes time to find players that will work optimally in your system. You complain all you want about Naegle/riser not spending money to get good players but it didn't matter as much as you think; the cheap, grinding players when playing with patience were perfect for the style of hockey Lemaire wanted to play. Obviously the better players the better the team was going to be but my point is these GMs have an idea in their head of how the team should play and try to find a coach that understands that vision and pair him with a team (which takes time to suss out) that fits that personality. Seemed like Leipold changed his mind a couple years ago and let Fletcher go for it in building the prospect pool (or putting more emphasis on the future than the present). With that change they probably decided Yeo would work better? Just guessing at this point. Yeo did actually attempt to adapt the game to the players he had I thought while last year was still a transitional year. heatley is a transitional player--once he's gone we'll see how that money is spent and the vision should be fairly close to fully operational levels. (always tweaking necessary of course). I don't think Richards had a fair chance, but that doesn't mean I think he's a better coach in this environment than Yeo.

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07-24-2013, 12:52 PM
  #32
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YEO > Richards.

Hard to trust a coach who looked like a deer in the headlights at all times, and by doing so, gained zero respect from anyone. (I'm talking about you Richards)

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07-24-2013, 02:03 PM
  #33
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Is there an option for neither?

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Old
07-24-2013, 02:08 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Billy Mays Here View Post
Is there an option for neither?
In reality, yes. In the OP's purpose of this thread, no.

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07-24-2013, 06:32 PM
  #35
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Yeo. But I think both needed more experience before getting a head coaching job in the NHL. We're in win now mode and that's not a good time to have on the job training for a head coach. There better be lots of improvement next season. If not, I would say fire Yeo, although I wonder who would be available.

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07-24-2013, 06:53 PM
  #36
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our PP was a huge reason we got bounced. oh, and also the fact that chicago was an obviously superior team. which had probably a worse powerplay. certainly worse in the sense that they had players much more offensively gifted than we.

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07-24-2013, 09:15 PM
  #37
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Yeo.

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Old
07-24-2013, 10:23 PM
  #38
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Neither.

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Old
07-25-2013, 09:22 AM
  #39
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hard to compare the coaches since YEO has way more talent to work with. i have not been impressed with YEO not being able to stop the bleeding quicker during the skids. both coaches had massive injuries to deal with. i just think you dont hire a unproven coach if your competing for a playoff spot. a new coach should learn on a team thats rebuilding. this is something i've always disliked about CF. ps neither coach was able to fire up our PP, something an experienced coach may have had better luck with.

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07-25-2013, 10:52 AM
  #40
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Too subjective to really tell. I still believe Richards lost that locker room and he also submitted to many of the players demands it felt like. Truly the only reason I can imagine the players we had playing on the lines they were.

Yeo puts his foot down when players have gotten out of line and they were traded or not resigned as a result of it. He mismanages the game way too much for my liking though. And it appears he depends on the "Top 5" to be the reason we win games.

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Old
07-25-2013, 12:17 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DANOZ28 View Post
hard to compare the coaches since YEO has way more talent to work with. i have not been impressed with YEO not being able to stop the bleeding quicker during the skids. both coaches had massive injuries to deal with. i just think you dont hire a unproven coach if your competing for a playoff spot. a new coach should learn on a team thats rebuilding. this is something i've always disliked about CF. ps neither coach was able to fire up our PP, something an experienced coach may have had better luck with.
Were the Wild not rebuilding when Yeo was hired? I thought it was pretty obvious that they were.

This season will be Yeo's make or break season. I think Fletcher gives him a very short leash.

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07-25-2013, 12:21 PM
  #42
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They were rebuilding on Richards too.

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07-25-2013, 12:33 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
They were rebuilding on Richards too.
They didn't fully commit to a rebuild until his second season though.

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07-25-2013, 12:41 PM
  #44
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How is "committing to a rebuild" any different than fielding the medicore roster they did in 2009-10? Where they had to make a panic trade for Kobasew?

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07-25-2013, 12:55 PM
  #45
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Fletcher didn't yet realize just how bad off this team really was. That's the only difference.

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07-25-2013, 01:27 PM
  #46
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i do drink alot, but i remember either CF or CL quoted as saying we are not rebuilding. that was during the first or 2nd year under new mgmt.

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07-25-2013, 01:32 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by DANOZ28 View Post
i do drink alot, but i remember either CF or CL quoted as saying we are not rebuilding. that was during the first or 2nd year under new mgmt.
they weren't pulling a Calgary. they were treading water trying to add pieces that shouldn't be added while they waited for prospects to enter the system instead of selling roster to get even more picks. i think the owner had something to do with that.
Havlat, kobasew, nystrom etc were bandages...we ripped off the bandaids and let the wounds air out.

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07-25-2013, 01:40 PM
  #48
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Disagree.

If we were truly re-building, what major pieces did we trade off? Just Burns from what I recall. We re-signed Koivu to a long-term deal and held on to guys like Bruno, Nolan, Bouchard, etc.

Havlat was moved for Heatley. Hardly building for the future there.

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07-25-2013, 02:05 PM
  #49
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Disagree.

If we were truly re-building, what major pieces did we trade off? Just Burns from what I recall. We re-signed Koivu to a long-term deal and held on to guys like Bruno, Nolan, Bouchard, etc.

Havlat was moved for Heatley. Hardly building for the future there.
Re-built should mean to create a massive overhaul of the organization as a whole. Look at the players who were traded or not resigned. Bouchard was injured and no one was going to pick up a $4M cap hit on the chance he could still play. Bruno was not resigned and ended up in Chicago. Nolan never played again. Zidlicky was traded. Belanger was traded. Burn was traded to SJ for Seto and Coyle. Havlat for Heater. Leddy/Jonnson for Barker. Kobasew, Nystrom, et al. were acquired and dropped just as promptly. Don't forget Schultz for Gilbert (who is now also no longer on the team).

It isn't about just core pieces, but the team as a collective whole. We've traded away two of our goalie prospects as well on the whim that eventually Harding would sign somewhere else as a #1 starter (which never panned out) or Backstrom never being resigned because he would want too much.

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07-25-2013, 02:10 PM
  #50
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Disagree.

If we were truly re-building, what major pieces did we trade off? Just Burns from what I recall. We re-signed Koivu to a long-term deal and held on to guys like Bruno, Nolan, Bouchard, etc.

Havlat was moved for Heatley. Hardly building for the future there.
burns signaled the "rebuild". or at least the focus on building future strength at the expense of present "success". Tell me how we could have gotten anything for Bouchard. Heatley was on a shorter deal than Havlat--that was a big part in making that swap.

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