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2013 Philadelphia Phillies (MLB): Charlie Manuel has been fired (Aug. 16)

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Old
07-25-2013, 12:30 PM
  #251
DrinkFightFlyers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phileeguy View Post
I think you're the first person in the history of ever to say those words. I don't know anyone who was excited in giving up a premier pitcher for the likes of Travis Lee, Omar Daal, Nelson Figueroa and Vicente Padilla.
In fairness Travis Lee was still a pretty highly touted prospect, Padilla was only 22, and Figueroa was only 25. And Omar Daal had a pretty solid year the season before. And at that point Schilling was around 30 years old and only had had a couple really good seasons. Was it a great trade? Nope, but I liked those days better anyway.

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07-25-2013, 12:58 PM
  #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
In fairness Travis Lee was still a pretty highly touted prospect, Padilla was only 22, and Figueroa was only 25. And Omar Daal had a pretty solid year the season before. And at that point Schilling was around 30 years old and only had had a couple really good seasons. Was it a great trade? Nope, but I liked those days better anyway.
Travis Lee might've still been young, but he had 2 1/2 seasons in the Bigs under his belt at the time of the trade and didn't show much. Daal did had a good year prior, but his body of work up showed him to be more of a back-of-the-rotation kinda guy. Figueroa was a big question mark as he only had a few big league starts for Arizona before the trade, but stunk in them. Padilla turned out to be the only half decent piece in the deal, but was also a guess at the time.

Schilling had more than only a couple good seasons, though. He was coming off 3 straight AS game worthy seasons, had a 3.35 career ERA and 1.12 WHIP with the Phillies. Not to mention he was a work-horse and stayed healthy.

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07-25-2013, 12:58 PM
  #253
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I don't care much for phillies fans that are under 30. They are spoiled, they are not tempered by the constant loosing, the sky is always falling, omg they are fn loosing. Then again, I'm not a big fan of gen Y in general.

I thoroughly enjoy my cheap 700 level tickets and running laps around the top as a kid.

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07-25-2013, 01:34 PM
  #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phileeguy View Post
Travis Lee might've still been young, but he had 2 1/2 seasons in the Bigs under his belt at the time of the trade and didn't show much. Daal did had a good year prior, but his body of work up showed him to be more of a back-of-the-rotation kinda guy. Figueroa was a big question mark as he only had a few big league starts for Arizona before the trade, but stunk in them. Padilla turned out to be the only half decent piece in the deal, but was also a guess at the time.
Like I said, it wasn't a great trade. I'm not saying it is. I'm just saying I enjoyed those days better than the current situation. To me, fretting over our crappy roster and hoping that our perennial top five picks turn into something was more enjoyable than fretting over our overpaid, underachieving roster and hoping that we have enough prospects to trade for a big name guy. Don't get me wrong, I'd love another World Series title, but again I enjoy the "old days" more than the current state of affairs.

Schilling had more than only a couple good seasons, though. He was coming off 3 straight AS game worthy seasons, had a 3.35 career ERA and 1.12 WHIP with the Phillies. Not to mention he was a work-horse and stayed healthy.[/QUOTE]

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07-25-2013, 01:35 PM
  #255
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So you like baseball when there is nothing on the line at all? Just pick up the Marlins, they'll never be good.

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07-25-2013, 02:01 PM
  #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Like I said, it wasn't a great trade. I'm not saying it is. I'm just saying I enjoyed those days better than the current situation. To me, fretting over our crappy roster and hoping that our perennial top five picks turn into something was more enjoyable than fretting over our overpaid, underachieving roster and hoping that we have enough prospects to trade for a big name guy. Don't get me wrong, I'd love another World Series title, but again I enjoy the "old days" more than the current state of affairs.
That's a sentiment I can understand more, but that's not what you originally said. You said you enjoyed them more when they sucked than when they are good, which was why I responded because it makes no sense from a perspective of being a fan of that team.

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07-25-2013, 02:04 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by Hiesenberg View Post
So you like baseball when there is nothing on the line at all? Just pick up the Marlins, they'll never be good.
I guess it's that I more enjoy the excitement of the possibilities of improvements and surprise rather than the stagnant position teams can get in (kind of the like the situation the Flyers have been in over the last two decades or whatever...being consistently good, but not really great...only like I said with hockey it is different for me). I root for the Phillies. I want them to win every game they play. But I just enjoyed being a Phillies fan more during the 90s than I have since 2008.

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07-25-2013, 02:09 PM
  #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phileeguy View Post
That's a sentiment I can understand more, but that's not what you originally said. You said you enjoyed them more when they sucked than when they are good, which was why I responded because it makes no sense from a perspective of being a fan of that team.
It also has to do a lot with how the fans are these days too. I can't stand that it costs so much to go to a Phillies game, only to watch people leave in 7th inning. The last game I went to (which was a couple years ago), was a game against the Braves with Roy Halladay pitching. It was like 1 or 2 to nothing in the 8th with Halladay still on the mound. I think the Phillies were ahead in the standings at that point but the Braves were closing in. With all of that, there was a mass exodus frmo the stadium. You wouldn't see that at the vet (granted...the vet would have been half empty to begin with, but still, you stayed to watch the whole game). It used to be that you see a Phillies fan somewhere and you could have a conversation about the team or any other team in baseball, now being a Phillies fan seems just like something people say because they are from Philly. It's a culmination of all these things. I know increased ticket prices, phony fans, and the like are all a product of winning the World Series and you gotta take the good with the bad, but personally, I liked it better when the team was mired in a decade long funk. I wouldn't trade the World Series for anything, but I am not going to complain when they get back in their funk.

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07-25-2013, 02:11 PM
  #259
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You enjoyed them more because you were younger not because they sucked...just a thought.

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07-25-2013, 02:24 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by Protest View Post
You enjoyed them more because you were younger not because they sucked...just a thought.
Haha. That could be. There are a lot of things that were around back then that I liked more that aren't there now (the Vet, HK, players like Doug Glanville, Mike Lieberthal, and Robert Person).

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07-25-2013, 02:29 PM
  #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
It also has to do a lot with how the fans are these days too...
So in summation:
You enjoyed baseball more when the Phillies were bad, than the current situation.
Yet you don't root for them to lose.
You don't care for bandwagon fans that leave early.
You don't enjoy increased ticket prices (who doesn't?).

That sounds to me more like you don't really like it more when the Phillies were bad, you just don't like the peripherals of being a baseball fan in a time when they're good. If ticket prices were cheaper like in the 90's, and CBP was filled with fans you'd find only in the dog days of summer at the VET I'd assume you'd enjoy baseball a lot more.

Am I near the mark or way off?

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07-25-2013, 02:41 PM
  #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phileeguy View Post
So in summation:
You enjoyed baseball more when the Phillies were bad, than the current situation.
Yet you don't root for them to lose.
You don't care for bandwagon fans that leave early.
You don't enjoy increased ticket prices (who doesn't?).

That sounds to me more like you don't really like it more when the Phillies were bad, you just don't like the peripherals of being a baseball fan in a time when they're good. If ticket prices were cheaper like in the 90's, and CBP was filled with fans you'd find only in the dog days of summer at the VET I'd assume you'd enjoy baseball a lot more.

Am I near the mark or way off?
Near the mark, although I would add in that I also said that I liked it when the team was improving (or trying to) rather than being stagnant (or declining). It's all just preference. Like I said, I'd rather watch the Flyers make the playoffs 10 years in a row without winning Cup than watching the Flyers miss the playoffs ten years in a row. But with the Phillies, I'd rather watch them miss the playoffs ten years in a row and not win the WS than watch them make the playoffs and lose every year.

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07-25-2013, 03:01 PM
  #263
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I enjoy them more when they're good, but my expectations are constantly so low I'm rarely disappointed.

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07-25-2013, 03:03 PM
  #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Near the mark, although I would add in that I also said that I liked it when the team was improving (or trying to) rather than being stagnant (or declining). It's all just preference. Like I said, I'd rather watch the Flyers make the playoffs 10 years in a row without winning Cup than watching the Flyers miss the playoffs ten years in a row. But with the Phillies, I'd rather watch them miss the playoffs ten years in a row and not win the WS than watch them make the playoffs and lose every year.
I can follow your basic logic, right up until the bolded. Especially when you compare it to the NHL. Playoffs in baseball is a privilege granted to those teams that were exceptional in the regular season, whereas in the NHL the majority of teams get in. Granted, it's been watered down in baseball recently going from 4 to 8 to now 10 teams of 30 getting in, but it's still more exclusive relative to the NHL as they let in 16 of 30.

So the point being is that if you're making the playoffs in baseball, you've got a good team. You saying you'd rather watch 10 years of the Phils not making the playoffs than making them and not winning a WS is essentially saying you'd rather them be bad than good (and we're back to the antithetical point of being a fan of a team but liking them better when they're bad). You don't know prior to them being eliminated that they will be, so the hope will always be there as long as they're playing in October. There's no hope for a team that misses the playoffs year after year for a decade.

Sure it stings more if they come real close to the ultimate goal and lose, but overall most people enjoy themselves a lot more in those years, than years where they've got no shot come the end of July.

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07-25-2013, 03:07 PM
  #265
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Remember when it was 2 on each side? Talk about elite.

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07-25-2013, 04:43 PM
  #266
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D-Brown to the 7 day DL.

Steve Susdorf gets the recall, if he ends up making his major league debut he will be the 7 draft pick from the phils '08 draft to appear in a game for the Phillies. (Vance Worley, Jonathan Pettibone, Michael Stutes, B.J. Rosenberg, Michael Schwimer, Tyler Cloyd)

Plus Anthony Gose, Jason Knapp, and Trevor May were traded to acquire Roy Oswalt, Cliff Lee, and Ben Revere. Not a bad draft even with the struggles from their 1st 2 picks, Anthony Hewitt and Zach Collier.

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07-25-2013, 05:08 PM
  #267
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Jerry Crasnick ‏@jcrasnick 1m

The Carlos Zambrano era has quietly come to an end in Philly.

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07-25-2013, 05:17 PM
  #268
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Jerry Crasnick ‏@jcrasnick 1m

The Carlos Zambrano era has quietly come to an end in Philly.
The words "Carlos Zambrano" and "quietly" in the same sentence... Does. Not. Compute.

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07-25-2013, 10:07 PM
  #269
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All I can do is laugh. This team is so bad.

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07-25-2013, 10:26 PM
  #270
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There isnt a single player I wouldnt trade on this team, and yes I would trade Brown given the right deal. I would like them to at least trade Michael Young and Chooch and call up Asche and Joseph. Trade Utley too, he is the best player on the market. Also listen to offers for Lee/Rollins.

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07-25-2013, 10:34 PM
  #271
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I swear if Ruben buys...

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07-25-2013, 11:19 PM
  #272
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I expect the Phillies to either buy, stand pat, or sell off one or two guys while still remaining a near .500 team. With a mega TV deal coming up in 2015, I see them trying to remain as competitive as possible until then, and then once they've got all that money guaranteed their way, they rebuild correctly.

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07-25-2013, 11:34 PM
  #273
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My guess is like last year with Hamels, they will sign Utley then start selling. You're not going to get what Utley is worth and there is no one in the Phillies system that even comes close to replacing him at 2nd base. People aren't going to come to see a infield with Hernandez and Galvis not to mention an outfield with Mayberry and Delmon Young playing every day. They need to sell tickets and get their TV deal, and their payroll is one of the tops in the league.

It's really not that bad keeping Utley. Howard and Rollins, you could see the decline and it was almost predicted. But Chase is still a top 5 2nd baseman. The numbers all point to him still being a very valuable piece to the organization.

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07-25-2013, 11:39 PM
  #274
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4-34 with RISP in the last 5 games.

That's so embarrassing.

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07-25-2013, 11:41 PM
  #275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justified View Post
There isnt a single player I wouldnt trade on this team, and yes I would trade Brown given the right deal. I would like them to at least trade Michael Young and Chooch and call up Asche and Joseph. Trade Utley too, he is the best player on the market. Also listen to offers for Lee/Rollins.
I would build around Brown & Hamels, trade everybody else for what ever you can get. It makes too much sense that Amaro won't do it.

I really miss having an actual GM like Gillick around.

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