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Old
07-25-2013, 05:18 PM
  #26
Lundsanity30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AslanRH View Post
Boring time of year, just a thought.

NYR: Strength at LHD (McDonagh, MDZ, Staal), seem to need a top 6 LW
Canes: Have strength in the top 6, but are trying to improve their defense (and they need another Staal), rumor is they are looking for more cap space
Avs: Need to upgrade on LD and have Elliott who is very similar to Barrie as a PMD/RD. Could also use more depth at RW


Marc Staal (LD)


Jiri Tlusty (LW)
Stefan Elliott (RD)
Avs 2014 1st



Tim Gleason (LD)
Zac Dalpe (C/RW)

Ready...
Set...
Tear it apart!
just cut out the middle man.(canes)

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Old
07-25-2013, 05:19 PM
  #27
Lonewolfe2015
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
just cut out the middle man.(canes)
I'd rather just deal with the Canes...

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Old
07-25-2013, 05:22 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AslanRH View Post
Boring time of year, just a thought.

NYR: Strength at LHD (McDonagh, MDZ, Staal), seem to need a top 6 LW
Canes: Have strength in the top 6, but are trying to improve their defense (and they need another Staal), rumor is they are looking for more cap space
Avs: Need to upgrade on LD and have Elliott who is very similar to Barrie as a PMD/RD. Could also use more depth at RW


Marc Staal (LD)


Jiri Tlusty (LW)
Stefan Elliott (RD)
Avs 2014 1st



Tim Gleason (LD)
Zac Dalpe (C/RW)

Ready...
Set...
Tear it apart!
I love 3-way trade proposals, and I give you credit for taking the needs of the other teams into account. My thoughts:

- The Avs shouldn't be parting with their 1st. Maybe a 2nd instead, or more likely a 3rd.
- The Avs pick should be going to CAR, not NYR.

That makes the deal:

CAR gets: Staal, COL 3rd
NYR gets: Tlusty, Elliott
COL gets: Gleason, Dalpe

That value seems closer to me (not being a fan of any of three teams). But it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense for CAR to trade Tlusty, considering his chemistry with that top line and his cheap contract. I've tried to come up with some alternate proposal ideas with these three teams, and I'm just coming up empty...

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07-25-2013, 05:23 PM
  #29
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Really good value. I'd do it.

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07-25-2013, 05:32 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Goose View Post
I love 3-way trade proposals, and I give you credit for taking the needs of the other teams into account. My thoughts:

- The Avs shouldn't be parting with their 1st. Maybe a 2nd instead, or more likely a 3rd.
- The Avs pick should be going to CAR, not NYR.

That makes the deal:

CAR gets: Staal, COL 3rd
NYR gets: Tlusty, Elliott
COL gets: Gleason, Dalpe

That value seems closer to me (not being a fan of any of three teams). But it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense for CAR to trade Tlusty, considering his chemistry with that top line and his cheap contract. I've tried to come up with some alternate proposal ideas with these three teams, and I'm just coming up empty...
I'm also not a fan of any of the three and I like the looks of it (but what do I know)

On another note , could someone please start a 3-way trade CHALLENGE thread where people post 3-way trades that they think each fan base will like and see if anyone can actually come up with a "perfect" 3-way trade. Seems like everyone hates these but I love em , would be fun guys!

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Old
07-25-2013, 05:33 PM
  #31
Lundsanity30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
I'd rather just deal with the Canes...
I meant avs lol

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Old
07-25-2013, 05:37 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
I meant avs lol
That would leave Staal for Tlusty which I have zero interest in.

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Old
07-25-2013, 05:43 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
That would leave Staal for Tlusty which I have zero interest in.
obviously Canes would have to give more. if we dealt with carolina, it would be a two team trade

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07-25-2013, 05:44 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Goose View Post
I love 3-way trade proposals, and I give you credit for taking the needs of the other teams into account. My thoughts:

- The Avs shouldn't be parting with their 1st. Maybe a 2nd instead, or more likely a 3rd.
- The Avs pick should be going to CAR, not NYR.

That makes the deal:

CAR gets: Staal, COL 3rd
NYR gets: Tlusty, Elliott
COL gets: Gleason, Dalpe

That value seems closer to me (not being a fan of any of three teams). But it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense for CAR to trade Tlusty, considering his chemistry with that top line and his cheap contract. I've tried to come up with some alternate proposal ideas with these three teams, and I'm just coming up empty...
Tlusty + Elliot isnt enough for Staal.

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Old
07-25-2013, 05:52 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by tucker3434 View Post
So the answer is no? Just speculation?
The answer is:IDK what planet you live on, but the planet I live on is where when THREE of your brothers are in the same organization, you naturally want to go play with them.

Oh, wait, wait. Marc "hates" Eric for giving him a concussion. Did he say that? The answer is no.

You may see a straight up trade like Skinner for Marc to get him early. But I'll eat my hat if we see Rutherford gutting a team that desperately needs everyone it already has to get him.

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07-25-2013, 06:18 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Frank Booth23 View Post
The answer is:IDK what planet you live on, but the planet I live on is where when THREE of your brothers are in the same organization, you naturally want to go play with them.

Oh, wait, wait. Marc "hates" Eric for giving him a concussion. Did he say that? The answer is no.

You may see a straight up trade like Skinner for Marc to get him early. But I'll eat my hat if we see Rutherford gutting a team that desperately needs everyone it already has to get him.
And the evidence for this is, what, exactly? Any historical examples?

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Old
07-25-2013, 07:47 PM
  #37
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Avs get HOSED. Great value for us. Wouldn't take it but still great value. the

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Old
07-25-2013, 07:49 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by tucker3434 View Post
I keep seeing Canes fans say this. Has Staal actually said this, or is it just speculation because Jordan wanted to play there?
Pure speculation despite the fact that Marc has absolutely indicated otherwise at every possible opportunity.

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07-25-2013, 07:50 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Frank Booth23 View Post
Really, it doesn't take Dionne freakin' Warwick to speculate that he'd naturally want to come play here. What, you think when the family gets together (like they do all the time) that his brother's don't talk to him about that? And that Eric would maybe have a little sidebar with Rutherford about it? It was no accident that the last game they played against the Rangers, the first line out on the ice was Marc's other 3 brothers.

Of course he wants to win a cup, and figures he has a better shot in NY. Which is why I'm sure he wants to stay there the next 2 years. But NY was supposed to be a legit contender the past couple of years. If they continue to fizzle out...why wouldn't he cut away when his contract is up?

But the bottom line is that why would Rutherford hamstring the team to get him right now? We have a problem on D. So, we give up our best D man to get somebody who is a better D man. And one of our tops scorers. And some other guy. He paid too much to get Jordan, I really don't think you'll see that repeated.
We made it to the ECF 2 years ago and Semis this year.

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Old
07-25-2013, 09:13 PM
  #40
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I don't want to give up our leading goal scorer from last year, especially with a $1.6 million cap hit. Also, coming from a Canes fan, the Avs get totally hosed.

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Old
07-26-2013, 08:06 AM
  #41
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LOL. You people want "proof" that a guy would want to play with his brothers. I think that's a pretty safe assumption- once which required no proof. You guys must not have brothers or something. My little brother joined the Army because I had- and he didn't even really want to.

Yet make the astonishing statement that Marc "hates" his brothers. Where is the "proof" for that?

So, my argument is that while Marc finishes out his 2 years in a "real" hockey market, he's either going to win the Cup or he's not. If he does, then what's stopping him from signing in Carolina? If he doesn't...then what's stopping him from signing in Carolina? He'll have been part of an organization that has consistently failed to live up to the hype year after year despite all the overpriced talent, maniacal coaches, ect. Why would he continue to ride that train into the wall?

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Old
07-26-2013, 08:15 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Frank Booth23 View Post
LOL. You people want "proof" that a guy would want to play with his brothers. I think that's a pretty safe assumption- once which required no proof. You guys must not have brothers or something. My little brother joined the Army because I had- and he didn't even really want to.

Yet make the astonishing statement that Marc "hates" his brothers. Where is the "proof" for that?

So, my argument is that while Marc finishes out his 2 years in a "real" hockey market, he's either going to win the Cup or he's not. If he does, then what's stopping him from signing in Carolina? If he doesn't...then what's stopping him from signing in Carolina? He'll have been part of an organization that has consistently failed to live up to the hype year after year despite all the overpriced talent, maniacal coaches, ect. Why would he continue to ride that train into the wall?
What over priced talent? We haven't made any big FA signings in 2 years. Slats and Gorton are steering clear of that. The majority of our team is home grown talent.

Also you have yet to respond to my post how we have failed to live up to the hype. We have made the playoffs all but 1 year since the lock out, made the semi's last year and the ECF the year before.

Torts is gone. They have had two coaches post lock out Renney & Torts. Renney who was too nice. Torts who was too crazy. The rest of the coaching staff is sane (sans torts) therefore your insinuation of maniacal coaches holds no water.

Maybe Marc loves living in the big city. Maybe the Carolinas are too southern for him (they were for me as is Georgia at times). No one knows but Marc. Up until this point, every indication of his is to stay in NY.

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Old
07-26-2013, 08:54 AM
  #43
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So the answer is no? Just speculation?
That is correct, it's just speculation. These threads drive me crazy too.


Anyway, getting back to the trade proposal, the fundamental problem here from a Canes POV is that it doesn't make sense for us to acquire Staal if we lose Gleason in the process. Family connections aside, our interest in Staal is based on needing more toughness on the blue line -- if we ship out Gleason, this trade basically becomes a lateral move and THEN we add our top LW and a middle-range prospect. Even if Staal is a bit better than Gleason, he's not so much better that we would want to gut our forwards for that kind of upgrade. The idea would be to get Staal AND keep Gleason, thus making our defense much tougher to play against.

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07-26-2013, 09:09 AM
  #44
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I don't want to trade our next first nor Elliott, and certainly not for this return.

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07-26-2013, 09:40 AM
  #45
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Easy no from the Canes.

Now talk something around Skinner for Boyle and Staal and it will get things going.

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07-26-2013, 10:27 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by AslanRH View Post
Boring time of year, just a thought.

NYR: Strength at LHD (McDonagh, MDZ, Staal), seem to need a top 6 LW
Canes: Have strength in the top 6, but are trying to improve their defense (and they need another Staal), rumor is they are looking for more cap space
Avs: Need to upgrade on LD and have Elliott who is very similar to Barrie as a PMD/RD. Could also use more depth at RW


Marc Staal (LD)


Jiri Tlusty (LW)
Stefan Elliott (RD)
Avs 2014 1st



Tim Gleason (LD)
Zac Dalpe (C/RW)

Ready...
Set...
Tear it apart!
A noble effort with honest attempt to broker win win win which was uneven and bad for AVs. Kudos for the effort.

May not be appropriate to retain in this thread (no hijacking), but wanna explore something like Staal + to Avs for Siemens +?

Doesn't really help from net add [one LD for another], except Staal would be NHL ready day 1, with experience, etc. and NY is covered there, and a deal would help NY in terms of cap moving sal for ELC. Eventual Siemens - McIlrath pair would be bone crusher x 2! Interesting to see what posters come up with on the +s for that one.

Minimal time today will follow up to your answer over weekend.

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07-26-2013, 10:38 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Blue Goose View Post
I love 3-way trade proposals, and I give you credit for taking the needs of the other teams into account. My thoughts:

- The Avs shouldn't be parting with their 1st. Maybe a 2nd instead, or more likely a 3rd.
- The Avs pick should be going to CAR, not NYR.

That makes the deal:

CAR gets: Staal, COL 3rd
NYR gets: Tlusty, Elliott
COL gets: Gleason, Dalpe

That value seems closer to me (not being a fan of any of three teams). But it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense for CAR to trade Tlusty, considering his chemistry with that top line and his cheap contract. I've tried to come up with some alternate proposal ideas with these three teams, and I'm just coming up empty...
This makes no sense for the Rangers, at all.

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07-26-2013, 10:45 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
A noble effort with honest attempt to broker win win win which was uneven and bad for AVs. Kudos for the effort.

May not be appropriate to retain in this thread (no hijacking), but wanna explore something like Staal + to Avs for Siemens +?

Doesn't really help from net add [one LD for another], except Staal would be NHL ready day 1, with experience, etc. and NY is covered there, and a deal would help NY in terms of cap moving sal for ELC. Eventual Siemens - McIlrath pair would be bone crusher x 2! Interesting to see what posters come up with on the +s for that one.

Minimal time today will follow up to your answer over weekend.
What in the world is with your recent fascination with Siemens? He's your next Hall. You keep calling him "the next Hamilton" despite

a) He is nothing like Hamilton except in height
b) Hamilton isn't even that good yet

You're giving up an established top pairing guy from a contender for a prospect who almost definitely won't be as good as Staal. It's ridiculous.

Stop looking at "value". Trades aren't done in a vacuum with prices established in dollars. Nobody cares that we're getting 4 dimes in 3 years for our quarter now. We aren't going 17 steps back to jump 5 forward with the promise of 30 future steps forward. Coke for Pepsi is more common than an elephant for thirteen jaguars. Taylor Hall is not moving. We are not icing 4 rookies on our blueline. A trade that changes more than a third of the makeup of any team will not happen.

Next time you propose something, ask yourself two things before:

1) Does this make the team contending worse and the team who is not concerned about the immediate future better?

2) Does this involve several moving parts that would never move in a trade together?

If the answer is yes to either, don't post it.

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07-26-2013, 10:45 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
Tlusty + Elliot isnt enough for Staal.
Sorry I'm not overwhelmed by Tlusty to warrant moving Staal. Is he going to get top6 time above Stepan, Hagelin, Callahan, Nash, Krieder, & Brassard? I don't see it.

I mean since their time in the NHL has Tlusty really done that much more then Benoit Pouliot? Cause the Rangers just signed Pouliout for 1.3m and didn't give up anything close to Staal to get him because they didn't give up anything at all.

Pouliot - 26y/o, 291 games, 61g, 63a, 201PIM, 13.5 s%, 12:31 ATOI, 324 hits
Tlusty - 25y/o, 276 games, 57g, 55a, 112PIM, 13.77 s%, 13:20 ATOI, 187hits

I'm sorry but last season wasn't a full season and if a small sample size is adequate enough to determine a players value, which I'm not saying it is, then Mats Zuccarello should be in the Rangers top6 before Juri Tlusty.

If someone wants Staal, then they're going to have to pay the price it takes to get one, just like Jordan Staal cost. Which means the OP proposal except swap out Tlusty for Faulk.


Last edited by vipernsx: 07-26-2013 at 10:53 AM.
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07-26-2013, 10:50 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Booth23 View Post
LOL. You people want "proof" that a guy would want to play with his brothers. I think that's a pretty safe assumption- once which required no proof. You guys must not have brothers or something. My little brother joined the Army because I had- and he didn't even really want to.

Yet make the astonishing statement that Marc "hates" his brothers. Where is the "proof" for that?

So, my argument is that while Marc finishes out his 2 years in a "real" hockey market, he's either going to win the Cup or he's not. If he does, then what's stopping him from signing in Carolina? If he doesn't...then what's stopping him from signing in Carolina? He'll have been part of an organization that has consistently failed to live up to the hype year after year despite all the overpriced talent, maniacal coaches, ect. Why would he continue to ride that train into the wall?
The summer that Carolina acquired Jordan, Marc Staal was an RFA. he chose to re-up with the Rangers.

As for the proposal itself, I'd love to see Colorado get hosed! But they'll be the ones to nix it. This deal makes more sense without them.

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