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Carey Price, still not the best?

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Old
11-02-2006, 09:28 AM
  #26
Blind Gardien
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I think Whitesnake nailed it... the WHL has a very long and storied history of having some statistically breathtaking seasons from those goalies blessed to be on the defensive powerhouses of the league. Some of them were legit NHL prospects, some of them weren't even drafted and never amounted to anything. So judging a goalie purely on a junior stats line is a completely wasted effort, in and of itself.

Looking at the stats lines with some acknowledgement of and allowance for the calibre of teams the goalies had in front of them definitely helps. It still doesn't tell the whole story either, however.

Ultimately, you really just need to see them playing, and be qualified to judge them purely based on their play. I haven't seen the WHL enough since probably the mid-90s or so to really feel confident in evaluating WHL players anymore. And junior-aged goalies are the hardest crop of all to try to evaluate.

But the one kernel of truth that lurks even within Leafaholix's baiting, one that we've debated endlessly on this board amongst ourselves, is whether Price truly is such an elite prospect that he warranted using the #5 overall pick on. We've been through that so many times it has almost worn out its relevance as an issue for us, we certainly don't need an outsider to remind us of it. The feeling I've usually expressed in those debates is that I don't think Price is better (or worse) than most of the other goalies who are at the top of the current prospect heap, and names like Rask, Pogge, Pavelec, etc have featured in the heap. I think it's plenty fair to add Irving to the heap too. So given that the heap features goalies who were picked 20, 30, or more spots lower in the draft order than Price, it has always been fair game here to wonder if it was a wise use of our providential #5 choice. And the answer now, as always, is that it's too soon to know for sure. Our scouting team seems to have been delivering the goods recently, so even those doubters amongst us who question the wisdom (myself included) are often ready to cut them some slack and wait and see. Call back in 3-5 years, maybe this debate can finally be settled then.

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11-02-2006, 09:31 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charge_Seven View Post


I've never been a large Carey Price fan, I always thought he was the lesser of the two goalies (even prior to my Leafs taking...and then trading away...Tuukka Rask). However clearly I don't think Price is a nobody. Price has all the makings of an NHLer, and there's no reason to believe he won't make it. I've always been critical of the selection, but that's been based on where he was taken, and who he was taken over.

That being said, you guys are all correct, that his stats are not something to get hung up on, there's always going to be players who outshine a higher selected guy, what will matter will be what he does when he gets to the show, and I think most expect, at worst, a solid starter. The jury will be out on whether he will be an elite starter until he does it, but I certainly would not panic.
I like Rask, although I don't think I'd pick him over Price. Most people who place a high value on Rask point to his numbers in the FNL, where granted he was playing against men, but that IMO is offset because the FNL is defence minded league. Both Price and Rask were decent picks, we'll have to wait and see how both pan out in a few years.

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11-02-2006, 09:34 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by habfan4 View Post
I like Rask, although I don't think I'd pick him over Price. Most people who place a high value on Rask point to his numbers in the FNL, where granted he was playing against men, but that IMO is offset because the FNL is defence minded league. Both Price and Rask were decent picks, we'll have to wait and see how both pan out in a few years.
It still pains me we dumped Rask for Raycroft. It'll never make sense to me. I like Raycroft, I've been happy with his play, but to be honest, I think we traded away a guy who will be a dominant #1 goaltender. My heart sunk as soon as I saw Ferguson talking to the Bruins. We all knew it was happening.

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Old
11-02-2006, 09:41 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Charge_Seven View Post
It still pains me we dumped Rask for Raycroft. It'll never make sense to me. I like Raycroft, I've been happy with his play, but to be honest, I think we traded away a guy who will be a dominant #1 goaltender. My heart sunk as soon as I saw Ferguson talking to the Bruins. We all knew it was happening.
The deal still might work out for the Leafs. It's early in the season and while Raycroft hasn't looked a good as he did in his Calder season, he hasn't looked that bad (aside from the back to back games against the Sens).

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11-02-2006, 09:43 AM
  #30
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Price looks like a winner to me. He reminds me of Olaf Kolzig in his size and positioning. He's a keeper.

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Old
11-02-2006, 09:43 AM
  #31
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This "your_rogers_bill" character likes to stir up crap...

Anyway, here's what was said about last night's game played by Price:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duster
Tri-City beats Chilliwack 4-3 with 11 seconds left in OT. Carey Price was named third star. Here are a few impressions:

He was the main reason Tri-City won, imo. As my buddy said "He was Tri-City's defense". The Bruins outshot Tri-City 29-15, and the game had a rough edge to it meaning a fair number of penalties. He let in a bad goal early in the game but played very well as a whole. His positioning is very sound and he covers a lot of net. He moves surprisingly quick for a man his size. You note the difference in technique with Huet and Abby right away in that he has more a standup style. He's hard to beat low because he's so quick with his pads and glove, as he showed in a couple of his more spectacular saves.

I'd love to see him in a Giants uniform for the Memorial Cup...

Yellow Horn was the best offensive player on both sides, imo. He really made things happen.
http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=6...&postcount=241


Price let in 3 goals, holy crap.. that's gonna ruin his stats!!!!! NNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

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Old
11-02-2006, 09:48 AM
  #32
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Luongo was in a similar situation with the Panthers and it definately helped him become a good goalie. They need to see a lot of rubber to improve.

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Old
11-02-2006, 09:51 AM
  #33
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Junior stats are meaningless........ look at Patrick Roy stats in the Q league.

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Old
11-02-2006, 10:13 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kafka View Post
Junior stats are meaningless........ look at Patrick Roy stats in the Q league.
stats aren't meaningless, they're just analyzed the wrong way

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11-02-2006, 10:20 AM
  #35
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Patrick Roy has always stated that if you wanna be a great NHL goalie, make sure you play for a crap Junior team.

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11-02-2006, 10:23 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by IcE ColD View Post
Doesn't Price play for one of the worst team in the CHL?
No.

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11-02-2006, 10:24 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habfan4 View Post
The deal still might work out for the Leafs. It's early in the season and while Raycroft hasn't looked a good as he did in his Calder season, he hasn't looked that bad (aside from the back to back games against the Sens).
It's more so the loss of Rask than the play of Raycroft that has me unhappy. I've been pleased with Raycroft's play, and if we had of acquired him another way, I'd be much happier.

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11-02-2006, 10:31 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by NewHabsArea View Post
Price will be a monster... He has the size, the gloves, reflex, is technically extremmely solid, great puckhandling skills.. Well spoken kid, looks solid between the ears as well... Difinitively in Ward, Miller class to me.
WHAMMO!!!

DOUBLE DION!!!

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Old
11-02-2006, 10:32 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by mooseOAK View Post
No.
Oh wait, another Leaf fan chiming in with his informed view. Price in fact does play for one of the worst CHL teams. He is the one holding them up currently in a respectable position.

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Old
11-02-2006, 10:46 AM
  #40
Guy Caballero
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If stats told the whole story we wouldn't need scouts. We'd just pick up a piece of paper and go down the list.

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Old
11-02-2006, 11:01 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by habfan4 View Post
The old statistics in a vacuum argument.

Two years ago there were posters who pegged Chris Higgins as a 3rd line player with limited offensive potential - they're strangely silent now. Perhaps in 3 or 4 years the posters who currently point to Price's stats with Tri-City will be equally speachless.
Two months ago some posters talked about Grabovsky as the next hab superstar...

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11-02-2006, 11:01 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by AH View Post
Patrick Roy has always stated that if you wanna be a great NHL goalie, make sure you play for a crap Junior team.
So Trevor Kidd was the exception to the rule then?

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Old
11-02-2006, 11:12 AM
  #43
habfan4
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Originally Posted by LeMAD View Post
Two months ago some posters talked about Grabovsky as the next hab superstar...
Not me, probably one or more of the usual prospect groupies. Note: I did like what I saw from him in the rookie tourney in Toronto.

Anyhoo, I'm not sure what your point is here?


Last edited by habfan4: 11-02-2006 at 11:17 AM. Reason: typos
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Old
11-02-2006, 11:27 AM
  #44
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I like Rask, although I don't think I'd pick him over Price. Most people who place a high value on Rask point to his numbers in the FNL, where granted he was playing against men, but that IMO is offset because the FNL is defence minded league.
Compared to what? Are you suggesting stats in junior league means more than against pros in your so called defensive minded league?

If you want junior stats, lets take Rask last playoffs in juniors as age of 18 against 20'ish players. 10 games, 6 SO's 0.87 GAA and 97.3% save percentage. At least it's more open than mens game, but does it prove more?

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Old
11-02-2006, 11:37 AM
  #45
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What I find funny is that if I was to start a similar thread on the Leafs board, I would quickly get a trolling warning from their mod and he would close it in a heartbeat. Anything against the Leafs there is closed right away. I'm glad to see that the mods here have an opened mind...


Last edited by Fozz: 11-02-2006 at 12:20 PM.
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Old
11-02-2006, 11:40 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Joretus View Post
Compared to what? Are you suggesting stats in junior league means more than against pros in your so called defensive minded league?

If you want junior stats, lets take Rask last playoffs in juniors as age of 18 against 20'ish players. 10 games, 6 SO's 0.87 GAA and 97.3% save percentage. At least it's more open than mens game, but does it prove more?
Read my other posts in this thread and it should be clear to you that I don't put much stock in stats (junior or otherwise). When stats are not presented in context (i.e. Price is on a very poor team) or over a short sample (like your example) they are meaningless.

And I stand by my characterization of the FNL as a defensive minded league.

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Old
11-02-2006, 11:41 AM
  #47
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Fozz, you should delete your post it's only going to get you in more trouble. You can sort this out via PM with the mod in question or with a global mod.

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Old
11-02-2006, 11:42 AM
  #48
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I deleted some posts that were attacking the poster or discussing leafs prospects since that's off topic. I chose to leave the thread open despite the clear effort of trolling since it's a good topic and if some can stay on topic and overlook the sad attempt by some to troll, I personally enjoy any discussions about our prospect especially Price since he could have a big impact with the team in the future.

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Old
11-02-2006, 11:44 AM
  #49
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Stats are just stats...!! Irving and Price are both great goaltenders...

Price is winning right now in a so-so team... So he is playing great and his numbers are good!!!

Yesterday his pct was below .900 BUT he was the third star...!!!

I think Price gonna have the spot because he is older..!!!

But both are great goaler but you cannot evaluate a player just by his stats!!!!

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11-02-2006, 11:45 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeMAD View Post
Two months ago some posters talked about Grabovsky as the next hab superstar...
So he can't be? I know I have hyped him and while I never called him a possible superstar, nor did I expect him to jump into the 2nd line spot and run with it but I still think he will be a good NHLer within two or so years. There's no doubt he's got a lot of natural skills.

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