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2014 - Canada Roster Discussion (Part VI)

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Old
07-25-2013, 08:52 AM
  #701
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Originally Posted by wej20 View Post
Why are you concerned about Kunitz's skating? he's a good skater. Crosby doesn't work well with slow players.
Perhaps it's just the games I've watched where he hasn't looked that quick. Or perhaps it's just in comparison to Crosby?

But he's just looked like an average skater to me. Similar to Getzlaf and Perry.

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07-25-2013, 09:11 AM
  #702
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Have they said anything about why Francois Beauchemin was not invited? Quality defenseman that is coming off a career year when finishing i believe fourth in the Norris Trophy race. Left handed shot which is of course his biggest advantage here.

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07-25-2013, 09:20 AM
  #703
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Have they said anything about why Francois Beauchemin was not invited? Quality defenseman that is coming off a career year when finishing i believe fourth in the Norris Trophy race. Left handed shot which is of course his biggest advantage here.
Hockey Canada to my knowledge has never publicly explained their decisions to include/omit specific players from the summer camp or the final team. You shouldn't expect a statement to that effect this summer, either. I'm not sure why exactly Beauchemin wasn't selected, perhaps it has something to do with his speed on the international ice surface. He's currently better than Alzner and Hamonic, but Hockey Canada probably wants to get them involved in the process for 2018.

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07-25-2013, 09:21 AM
  #704
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Perhaps it's just the games I've watched where he hasn't looked that quick. Or perhaps it's just in comparison to Crosby?

But he's just looked like an average skater to me. Similar to Getzlaf and Perry.
He's not blazing fast but he's definitely quick. Better skater the Getzlaf and Perry that's for sure.

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07-25-2013, 09:24 AM
  #705
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I would really like Duchene to make the team. I think his speed will be a tremendous asset -- and he played pretty well at the World's recently. Though I doubt Hockey Canada shares my sentiments.
Before the World Championships this year I would have puked from the thought of him making the team, but he was off the charts this year at the Worlds. So much speed, and he was finally using it to go to the net and put defenders in bad positions, I was blown away. I would not be at all shocked or upset to see him on this team. He was a force everytime he went on the ice. I would put him on my team.

And I was really, really anti-Duchene a year ago. One of my first posts in the World Championships thread was how I thought he was wasting a roster spot, really made me eat crow.

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07-25-2013, 09:28 AM
  #706
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Before the World Championships this year I would have puked from the thought of him making the team, but he was off the charts this year at the Worlds. So much speed, and he was finally using it to go to the net and put defenders in bad positions, I was blown away. I would not be at all shocked or upset to see him on this team. He was a force everytime he went on the ice. I would put him on my team.

And I was really, really anti-Duchene a year ago. One of my first posts in the World Championships thread was how I thought he was wasting a roster spot, really made me eat crow.
Agreed. I currently see him as our 14th forward, who may or may not see some game time depending on how things shake out and whether we run into any injury concerns. With his speed and creativity he's the kind of guy who can make a meaningful, immediate impact offensively. My only concern with him is his ability to play the wing; he's the kind of player that needs the puck on his stick in order to be effective, IMO.

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07-25-2013, 09:43 AM
  #707
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Okay, I'll put a team together, everyone else is doing it, I don't have as much awareness as you guys in regards to LH or RH, so my team may not be balanced in that regard. Also I have no intentions of actually making line combos, this is just who I think/who I want to make the team.

Nash - Crosby - St. Louis
Tavares - Stamkos - Giroux
Getzlaf - Staal - Bergeron
Duchene - Toews - Richards
Hall

Keith - Doughty
Weber - Subban
Seabrook - Peiterangelo
Letang

Luongo
Price
Crawford

No, those aren't my line combo's, they're just the players I think will make it/want to make it.

I included Hall, even though I don't know how I feel about him. I think he could be very valuable given his speed and the fact that he's a natural winger, but as people have already said, Ruff doesn't seem to like him, and he did not look very good at the WC this year.

I included E. Staal, who will almost certainly be on the team, but I always have found him to be a little useless when playing for Team Canada, but he probably has the talent to be big in big moments.

I probably have way to many centers, which means a player like Neal, or Marchand, or Eberle could sneak their way on with a good start to the year.

Defense looks mobile and pretty good two-way. I think if there are any injuries, look for Marc Staal, Bouwmeester, or Hamhuis to get added, all of whom are really great players and would most certainly make any other Olympic team in the world. Also, I haven't seen much of Dan Boyle, but skating has always been a strong part of his game, so he could easily slot in as a veteran.

Goalies, well, not much to say there. I hope any Canadian goalie is hot this year and we take and play the hottest and best one at the time. Frankly I don't care how much experience he has or anything like that. He has to be good for like 8 games.

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07-25-2013, 09:56 AM
  #708
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Am I the only one that thinks that people not taking at least one of Getzlaf or the Staals as centres are nuts?

Crosby, Tavares, Stamkos, Richards, Bergeron and Giroux are all 6'0 or under, and as much as the international game is more about speed than physicality, I think you need at least one big body down the middle in a tournament like this.

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07-25-2013, 10:26 AM
  #709
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Originally Posted by Leafsdude7 View Post
Am I the only one that thinks that people not taking at least one of Getzlaf or the Staals as centres are nuts?

Crosby, Tavares, Stamkos, Richards, Bergeron and Giroux are all 6'0 or under, and as much as the international game is more about speed than physicality, I think you need at least one big body down the middle in a tournament like this.
No, you're not nuts, but you'll need to accept that Getzlaf isn't exactly going to bring blazing speed to the international ice surface, and Jordan Staal isn't going to bring much besides sturdy defensive play. IMO Getzlaf would be a nice change of pace and style from the other lines (I have Crosby, Stamkos and Toews as my other centers). Jordan is redundant, for me, with Toews and Bergeron already on the team. Eric Staal can play LW or C, and should probably be considered a lock to be on the roster in some fashion.

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07-25-2013, 10:47 AM
  #710
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I think forever reworking the lines, just based on Canadian players, at this point is redundant.

I think you need to start looking at match ups and what will be needed to score goals vs Lundquist for example. The Swedish defence is decent. Much as some don't care for Marchand he can weasle his way in there. Plus I'm sure he may have a psychological impact on the Sedins. Whether that is good or bad? Who knows.

Then you need to be able to defend Datsyuk, Malkin, Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Anisimov, Radulov and Semin. Once they start moving and passing on the big ice you need to be able to read, react and keep up. Once they have blown past you then it is all on the goalie. Our defence needs to be able to skate. Our forwards must include some two way guys. Hitting is less useful on big ice. International refereeing is stricter so we will have to make sure we don't take penalties especially against the home team.

How you will play if you are up a goal or what is the strategy if down a goal.

Which players do you need for the various situations in order to be successful.

Canada is not going to be on the power play all the time so 5 defensemen power play specialists is overkill if they don't bring good defense too.


Last edited by Dream Big: 07-25-2013 at 10:58 AM.
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07-25-2013, 11:28 AM
  #711
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I'm seeing some votes for Duchene here, and loving it! Matty deserves a look and if he has a great start to the season which I'm betting he will, he could definitely bring a sexy element to this team. He's fast as all hell and the hands to go with it. This lineup has the skill, scoring, and two-way play to get er dooone. Neal, Nash, Toews, and Richards are all guys who can go to the dirty areas and finish. You can sub in an extra forward for Ebs, but the dudes got the magic touch in international play, bring him for the luck factor haha.

Goaltending is meh, but the D is fast and mobile as funk, retrieve pucks, wheel and move the puck out quickly, I'm really liking the D.

Hall - Crosby - Stamkos
Neal - Giroux - Tavares
Nash - Toews - Duchene
M.Richards - Bergeron - Eberle

Weber - Pietrangelo
Keith - Seabrook
Doughty - Subban
Letang

Luongo
Crawford
Price

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Old
07-25-2013, 11:28 AM
  #712
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 86Habs View Post
No, you're not nuts, but you'll need to accept that Getzlaf isn't exactly going to bring blazing speed to the international ice surface, and Jordan Staal isn't going to bring much besides sturdy defensive play. IMO Getzlaf would be a nice change of pace and style from the other lines (I have Crosby, Stamkos and Toews as my other centers). Jordan is redundant, for me, with Toews and Bergeron already on the team. Eric Staal can play LW or C, and should probably be considered a lock to be on the roster in some fashion.
Getzlaf might not be a blazer, but he's also not slow or even just average. He's also a puck distributor, which means he can look faster than he actually is because he moves the puck fast. Put him with Giroux/Duchene/Hall and he probably fits in perfectly.

I agree with Jordan Staal. I have him with the 13th forward spot right now, but that's mostly cause of his versatility. If someone has an insane start to the season and none of the top 12 could reasonably be dropped, I see J Staal with no shot at all.

Eric Staal might be a lock, but I wouldn't take him over Getzlaf. Getzlaf is a better puck distributor, IMO, and uses his size better.

In the end, though, my point is that, IMO, our biggest advantage over most other countries is having big players who use their size to every advantage. Going with 4 centers who are 6'0 and under seems to negate a big part of that advantage. If nothing else, it's going to make playing against Slovakia a chore.

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07-25-2013, 11:39 AM
  #713
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Originally Posted by Dream Big View Post
I think forever reworking the lines, just based on Canadian players, at this point is redundant.

I think you need to start looking at match ups and what will be needed to score goals vs Lundquist for example. The Swedish defence is decent. Much as some don't care for Marchand he can weasle his way in there. Plus I'm sure he may have a psychological impact on the Sedins. Whether that is good or bad? Who knows.

Then you need to be able to defend Datsyuk, Malkin, Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, Anisimov, Radulov and Semin. Once they start moving and passing on the big ice you need to be able to read, react and keep up. Once they have blown past you then it is all on the goalie. Our defence needs to be able to skate. Our forwards must include some two way guys. Hitting is less useful on big ice. International refereeing is stricter so we will have to make sure we don't take penalties especially against the home team.

How you will play if you are up a goal or what is the strategy if down a goal.

Which players do you need for the various situations in order to be successful.

Canada is not going to be on the power play all the time so 5 defensemen power play specialists is overkill if they don't bring good defense too.
The one thing we've hopefully learned from the Turin debacle is the need for a mobile, fleet back end. Canada was trapped to death on the bigger ice there and with Niedermayer out with injury and more defensive guys like Foote, Regehr, McCabe, Pronger and Blake in the lineup, they didn't have enough defenders who could skate the puck through the trap. As a result, Canada couldn't generate any offence. It was a huge mistake. I know you need some balance, but I'm all for going with a more offensive attack and defying other teams to outscore us. With the forwards we have, we need guys who can get the puck up ice quickly and as much as possible.

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Old
07-25-2013, 11:55 AM
  #714
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Originally Posted by Macman View Post
The one thing we've hopefully learned from the Turin debacle is the need for a mobile, fleet back end. Canada was trapped to death on the bigger ice there and with Niedermayer out with injury and more defensive guys like Foote, Regehr, McCabe, Pronger and Blake in the lineup, they didn't have enough defenders who could skate the puck through the trap. As a result, Canada couldn't generate any offence. It was a huge mistake. I know you need some balance, but I'm all for going with a more offensive attack and defying other teams to outscore us. With the forwards we have, we need guys who can get the puck up ice quickly and as much as possible.
AFAIC, there's no legitimate reason to take M Staal, Alzner, Methot, Phaneuf or even Green on the blueline when you can take guys who provide the same things like Weber, Bouwmeester, Seabrook, Doughty and even Hamhuis while all providing much more speed.

That said, it was not so much that the Turin team was built to be slow on the back end as much as it simply was that we had very few defensemen back then that legitimately provided speed without loosing skills on both sides of the red line. The fact is there were very few proven Canadian defensemen in 2006 that were better all around than the top 4 (Pronger, Blake, Foote, McCabe/Redden) they took. Perhaps the biggest omission that year was Dan Boyle, and he'd only played more than 60 NHL games 4 times prior to that year, getting over 40 points only once (he was on his way to his 2nd 40+ point season). Most of the new speedy blueliners we had in 2010 were either playing their rookie season (Keith), still lounging in the minors (Weber) or hadn't even been drafted yet (Doughty). Our blueline depth back then was just not as impressive then as it's become over the last 6-8 years.

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07-25-2013, 12:13 PM
  #715
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The one thing we've hopefully learned from the Turin debacle is the need for a mobile, fleet back end. Canada was trapped to death on the bigger ice there and with Niedermayer out with injury and more defensive guys like Foote, Regehr, McCabe, Pronger and Blake in the lineup, they didn't have enough defenders who could skate the puck through the trap. As a result, Canada couldn't generate any offence. It was a huge mistake. I know you need some balance, but I'm all for going with a more offensive attack and defying other teams to outscore us. With the forwards we have, we need guys who can get the puck up ice quickly and as much as possible.
Well, the only real "mistake" in hindsight was not playing Boyle (he was on the taxi squad), but at the time he didn't appear to be a significant oversight. The remaining defencemen on the team were non-controversial IIRC, and I can't think of any other two-way, mobile defencemen at the time that we overlooked. Although with Niedermayer out with injury (there's not much we could do about that), you'd think the coaching staff would have tapped Boyle instead of McCabe as a fill-in. But McCabe was Quinn's boy and loyalties ran deep while Gretzky was at the helm.

Niedermayer's loss was devastating for us in 2006, but we're in much better shape now than we were during that era IMO.

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07-25-2013, 12:58 PM
  #716
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has the actual schedule been released?

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07-25-2013, 01:25 PM
  #717
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has the actual schedule been released?
Yup.

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07-25-2013, 01:33 PM
  #718
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Group B
Austria
Canada
Finland
Norway

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07-25-2013, 01:52 PM
  #719
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Nash - Getzlaf - Perry
Crosby - Stamkos - Gyro
Ladd - Thornton - Staal
Toewes - RNH - Eberle

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07-25-2013, 02:10 PM
  #720
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We definitely got the easiest group out of the three. Anything less than a 3-0 in the group stage would be considered disappointing.

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07-25-2013, 03:04 PM
  #721
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Am i the only one who think it would be cool to have hall and duchene on a line? they would be sooo fast?

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07-25-2013, 03:12 PM
  #722
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Am i the only one who think it would be cool to have hall and duchene on a line? they would be sooo fast?
No, it wouldn't be cool. It sounds great in theory, but they played on a line together at the World Championships and they didn't mesh as a unit at all. Duchene looked great, but Hall looked lost. Both guys need the puck on their stick to be effective, and the fact is that while Duchene showed some great offensive creativity and speed and puckhandling skill on the rush, he rarely looked to Hall and let him lead the attack. Its a bit of a flaw in Duchene's game, IMO.

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07-25-2013, 03:49 PM
  #723
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Group B
Austria
Canada
Finland
Norway
Wow, that's a really easy group.

Although I wouldn't be surprised to see Rask or Rinne stand on their heads when we face Finland.

The bad thing about such an easy group is not really facing adversity before the quarterfinals. We won't really get to see what problems the teams has.

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07-26-2013, 05:33 AM
  #724
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what if some youngsters like rnh, mackinnon etc has a huge season...

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07-26-2013, 08:03 AM
  #725
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what if some youngsters like rnh, mackinnon etc has a huge season...
I think you should go to Russia with a Under 24 team.

Hall Tavares Stamkos
Couture Duchene Eberle
Kane R'N'H Seguin
Benn Crosby Skinner
Huberdeau Schenn

Pietrangelo Subban
Doughty Schultz
Del Zotto Hamilton
Schenn Hamonic

Holtby
Visentin
Subban

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