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Cap and roster management challenges for Jets

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Old
07-24-2013, 01:38 PM
  #26
truck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wpgsilver View Post
Me neither.
It would be a Kevin Glenn situation. Why get rid of Pavs with no replacement available.
Unless Stefan LeFors can play goalie.
Pretty much any goalie NHL/AHL can put up .900 ish numbers.

I mean, Al Montoya is willing to do it for $601,000/year.

Finding a replacement wouldn't be that hard.

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07-24-2013, 01:42 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truck View Post
Pretty much any goalie NHL/AHL can put up .900 ish numbers.

I mean, Al Montoya is willing to do it for $601,000/year.

Finding a replacement wouldn't be that hard.
Agreed, I'm pretty sure one of the Toronto goalies will be available next summer. I wouldn't be opposed to taking a rum at Reimer if Bernier wins out!

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07-24-2013, 01:47 PM
  #28
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Does LA have any franchise players?

How about Boston?

We're headed in the right direction, locking up good pieces over a term will allow us to only add and not lose good pieces over the next 3 years since they'll all be locked up. Add in the cap going up, guys like Jokinen and Stuart coming off, and we'll have lots of room to make moves. Our prospect pool hasn't looked this good in probably the entire history of this franchise.

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07-24-2013, 01:53 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by allan5oh View Post
Does LA have any franchise players?

How about Boston?

We're headed in the right direction, locking up good pieces over a term will allow us to only add and not lose good pieces over the next 3 years since they'll all be locked up. Add in the cap going up, guys like Jokinen and Stuart coming off, and we'll have lots of room to make moves. Our prospect pool hasn't looked this good in probably the entire history of this franchise.
Those teams have awesome depth (especially at centre) and pretty good goalies.

The Jets don't have those things. Those are actually the Jets biggest holes.

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07-24-2013, 02:05 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truck View Post
Those teams have awesome depth (especially at centre) and pretty good goalies.

The Jets don't have those things. Those are actually the Jets biggest holes.
Teams always have to start somewhere.

That said, I doubt we'll find a journeyman goalie like Thomas or rip a team off for a goalie like Rask, so that'll be a hard hole to patch up.

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07-24-2013, 02:07 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truck View Post
Those teams have awesome depth (especially at centre) and pretty good goalies.

The Jets don't have those things. Those are actually the Jets biggest holes.
True, but outside of drafting Kopitar they pretty much traded for all of their center depth so if we can draft as well as they have we can potentially dangle prospects to plug those holes like they did. Goaltending is a bigger question mark, but there are usually good goalies to be had if you know where to look.

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07-24-2013, 02:09 PM
  #32
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Lots of hope lies on Scheifele and Helebuyck (or any goalie in pool)... if they both hit their ceilings it will move this team deeper towards consistent contention than any other players currently on roster or in prospect pool.

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07-24-2013, 02:11 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by surixon View Post
True, but outside of drafting Kopitar they pretty much traded for all of their center depth so if we can draft as well as they have we can potentially dangle prospects to plug those holes like they did. Goaltending is a bigger question mark, but there are usually good goalies to be had if you know where to look.
That is... if you even try of look.

Khudobin was cheap cheap cheap.

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07-24-2013, 02:29 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
Pavelec's trade value might be low, but I don't think it's untradeable low. There will always be the Philadelphia's and Tampa Bay's of the world who will give up assets for unproven goaltending.
Pavs is Proven at this point, IMO.

He's a proven .906 goaltender.

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07-24-2013, 09:46 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke89 View Post
Enstrom was the oldest player we've signed to a long term contract and he was what, 26, 27 when he signed it??

We don't have franchise players. Kane is the closest and Bogo still has to take the next step to reach that.

Enstrom needs I play so he can help us make te playoffs. For what he can bring his contract is more then fine.

After this offseason what players will need big raises? Seto? HA!! He might not even stay and Joker's $4.5 is coming off the books.

Couple that with the cap raising as well. Unless Redmond or Postma take a huge step forward, no one will be due for a big raise for three years. And that'll be Scheif and Trouba. And the cap will likely be at least $10 mill higher then it is now.

You think one of Buff or Enstrom will be bought out??!? I need more facepalms. [mod]

If people think we'll have cap issues over the next few years them so will every other team in the league.
I was going to make a similar post. After we sign Wheeler and Bogo our core is all locked up for 3+ years and we still have some wiggle room. As the cap gradually rises we can start adding players at bigger cap hits assuming True North is willing to give Chevy the green light to spend close to the cap. Our next big RFA period will start as guys like Scheifele and Trouba come off their ELC in 3 years. Now if either or both of them are in a position to start demanding big $ that will be a glorious thing.

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07-25-2013, 11:47 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allan5oh View Post
Does LA have any franchise players?

How about Boston?

We're headed in the right direction, locking up good pieces over a term will allow us to only add and not lose good pieces over the next 3 years since they'll all be locked up. Add in the cap going up, guys like Jokinen and Stuart coming off, and we'll have lots of room to make moves. Our prospect pool hasn't looked this good in probably the entire history of this franchise.
Kopitar?

Chara?

Bergeron?

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07-25-2013, 02:09 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allan5oh View Post
Does LA have any franchise players?

How about Boston?
Yeah. They both do.

In our weakest position.

Quick and Rask.

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Old
07-25-2013, 02:13 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winterpeg View Post
Yeah. They both do.

In our weakest position.

Quick and Rask.
Doughty, Charm, Bergeron etc. are all pretty good too.

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Old
07-25-2013, 08:00 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Grind View Post
if pav's has another sub .910 season there's a plethora of goalies available in free agency who would cost significantly less and perform roughly the same.
If Noel insists on playing Pavs in back-to-back games, can we buy out Noel?

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07-26-2013, 07:52 AM
  #40
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Duke you should certainly stop feeding the trolls that much, they're getting fat!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke89 View Post
Enstrom was the oldest player we've signed to a long term contract and he was what, 26, 27 when he signed it??

We don't have franchise players. Kane is the closest and Bogo still has to take the next step to reach that.

Enstrom needs I play so he can help us make te playoffs. For what he can bring his contract is more then fine.

After this offseason what players will need big raises? Seto? HA!! He might not even stay and Joker's $4.5 is coming off the books.

Couple that with the cap raising as well. Unless Redmond or Postma take a huge step forward, no one will be due for a big raise for three years. And that'll be Scheif and Trouba. And the cap will likely be at least $10 mill higher then it is now.

You think one of Buff or Enstrom will be bought out??!? I need more facepalms. [mod]

If people think we'll have cap issues over the next few years them so will every other team in the league.

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Old
07-26-2013, 08:19 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by GermanJetsFan View Post
Duke you should certainly stop feeding the trolls that much, they're getting fat!
Good! Maybe they're fingers will get too fat to type then!

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Old
07-26-2013, 08:58 AM
  #42
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Good! Maybe they're fingers will get too fat to type then!
Doesn't matter, you can still order a special typing wand by mashing the keypad with your palm.

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07-26-2013, 12:27 PM
  #43
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Doesn't matter, you can still order a special typing wand by mashing the keypad with your palm.
Well isn't that just dandy for society.

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Old
07-26-2013, 01:32 PM
  #44
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If this group can continue to develop and make the playoffs, which I'm sure Chevy and TNSE is banking on, then he's managed the cap pretty well (assuming Wheeler and Bogo are signed to fair/reasonable/longer-term deals), imo.

But, if this group fails to get there once again, the Jets have guys locked up that just aren't getting the job done, and changes would need to be made.

Ollie, Seto, and Stuart would be the key UFA's at the end of this season. If they don't have productive seasons, its likely they wouldn't be back or even moved at the trade deadline.

Worst case scenario, they flop and the Jets still don't have a decent 2nd line. Best case, Seto and Olli (or Scheifele or O'Dell) mesh with Kane, are productive, make the playoffs, and sign extensions to reasonable deals.
Still think the Jets are one legit top 9 guy away from giving them some decent options at forward (mostly C), and that would be a Burmi or Antro (for me). Not sure either is an option. Grabo would likely be too expensive.

Lots of pressure on Scheifele to step in and be productive. Hate to see what happens, if Olli craps the bed again.

Edit: I realize Burmi isn't an option for this year, was more a comment about Antro, whether they are considering bringing him back - for 1 year.

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Old
07-26-2013, 03:38 PM
  #45
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Yes, Antro is a big upgrade over Tangradi and Jokinen, Antro, Frolik is a decent third line, assuming Schief can handle being #2 centre. I also agree that Burmi would have made that third line much better. But I have this sick feeling that Chevy will let Wright or Tangradi fight for the third line spot. I prefer Halischuk there over those two. Maybe Chevy is trying to line up a trade? Not sure who, but I called a trade coming right before Seto got here.

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07-27-2013, 12:35 AM
  #46
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Yes, Antro is a big upgrade over Tangradi and Jokinen, Antro, Frolik is a decent third line, assuming Schief can handle being #2 centre. I also agree that Burmi would have made that third line much better. But I have this sick feeling that Chevy will let Wright or Tangradi fight for the third line spot. I prefer Halischuk there over those two. Maybe Chevy is trying to line up a trade? Not sure who, but I called a trade coming right before Seto got here.
I did a major update on the first post, to reflect the latest signing (Wheeler). Assuming Bogosian signs for $6 million, we'll have less than $2 million cap space, including bonus cushion. We need to clear some cap space before we think of Antropov. Actually, we would've been very tight against the cap if we had re-signed Burmistrov.

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07-27-2013, 01:12 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by knorthern knight View Post
I did a major update on the first post, to reflect the latest signing (Wheeler). Assuming Bogosian signs for $6 million, we'll have less than $2 million cap space, including bonus cushion. We need to clear some cap space before we think of Antropov. Actually, we would've been very tight against the cap if we had re-signed Burmistrov.
Doubt Bogo will sign for 6 a year. He isn't proven, (aside from in our hearts of course) the way Wheeler is, and his comparable contracts are all lower than that.

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07-27-2013, 09:44 AM
  #48
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It's been two+ years and I believe we are not a draft and develop team.

In Y1, I couldn't understand why we didn't try to sign RFA Oduya (when he began playing well) and traded him for scraps. Then we kept older veteran Dmen like Stuart (who I like) and Hainsey who made far more money. I couldn't understand how we didn't trade our veterans for younger players or draft picks in the off season.

In Y2, we locked up Pavs and Enstrom to expensive long term deals. I don't think either were franchise players so I was puzzled. Then we signed Jokinen to a short term deal to improve our scoring in the short term (understandable). Our play didn't diminish but it didn't get that much better. At the deadline, we kept each UFA and stood pat hoping for the playoffs and it didn't happen. This was a massive blunder by Chevy.

So now in Y3, we traded draft selections for Frolik and Seto (a potential rental). We're locking up some of our RFA to long term contracts overpaying them and also knowing full well that their contracts are guaranteed over the long term.

This is becoming problematic. The Winnipeg Jets inherited an Atlanta franchise that was around .500. We scraped by the last two+ years with a .500 record in one of the worst divisions in the league. We are moving to one of the toughest divisions. So, Why are we handing out long term deals to players on a losing hockey club? 16 teams go to the playoffs each year and we haven't been one of them. Why are we locking up players to franchise like deals? Pavs is a below average goaltender - Are we buying him out next year if his GAA and Save% are still garbage? Enstrom has been injury prone - is he being bought out if he's injured more this year? These two were just signed, we'd be throwing away money.

I don't like this approach. Ladd is now dramatically underpaid and he'll want a contract extension very soon (likely in excess of 6M). Some will say not to worry because we just won't pay Seto (he'll be a rental) and/or Jokinen next year. Burmi for better or worse better stay in the KHL because we don't have the money to pay him if he were to return (we'd be over the cap). That's not draft and develop.

Draft and develop means moving older players for younger less developed talent. We are not and have not been doing that. We're drafting no different than any other team. We're also not stockpiling picks. We're going to get old very fast. We're also not in a position to even look at an UFA right now. We are getting closer to cap ruin and we may not be any closer to the playoffs. I guess I'm praying we get a lot better very quickly or else this experiment will fall on it's face just as quickly.

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Old
07-27-2013, 09:52 AM
  #49
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pcanuck: how is having 10 picks in the last draft not stockpiling picks? Regarding the signings: perhaps slight overpayments, but the length of the terms are very good, and the way they're staggered gives Chevy a lot of room to maneuver in future. I would have liked to see them sign for slightly less, but the value vs. market is there for these contracts, and with the rising cap, these will be very good deals in a year or two.

You complain about moving Oduya, then end with asking why we don't move more of the older players at the deadline? You can't really have it both ways. The picks obtained from the Oduya trade turned into some nice pieces, IMHO, not "scraps". If all Chevy could get for Hainsey was a 2nd, and the Jets fell completely out of the playoff race last year, would that have been considered scraps too?

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07-27-2013, 10:32 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcanuck View Post
It's been two+ years and I believe we are not a draft and develop team.

In Y1, I couldn't understand why we didn't try to sign RFA Oduya (when he began playing well) and traded him for scraps. Then we kept older veteran Dmen like Stuart (who I like) and Hainsey who made far more money. I couldn't understand how we didn't trade our veterans for younger players or draft picks in the off season.

In Y2, we locked up Pavs and Enstrom to expensive long term deals. I don't think either were franchise players so I was puzzled. Then we signed Jokinen to a short term deal to improve our scoring in the short term (understandable). Our play didn't diminish but it didn't get that much better. At the deadline, we kept each UFA and stood pat hoping for the playoffs and it didn't happen. This was a massive blunder by Chevy.

So now in Y3, we traded draft selections for Frolik and Seto (a potential rental). We're locking up some of our RFA to long term contracts overpaying them and also knowing full well that their contracts are guaranteed over the long term.

This is becoming problematic. The Winnipeg Jets inherited an Atlanta franchise that was around .500. We scraped by the last two+ years with a .500 record in one of the worst divisions in the league. We are moving to one of the toughest divisions. So, Why are we handing out long term deals to players on a losing hockey club? 16 teams go to the playoffs each year and we haven't been one of them. Why are we locking up players to franchise like deals? Pavs is a below average goaltender - Are we buying him out next year if his GAA and Save% are still garbage? Enstrom has been injury prone - is he being bought out if he's injured more this year? These two were just signed, we'd be throwing away money.

I don't like this approach. Ladd is now dramatically underpaid and he'll want a contract extension very soon (likely in excess of 6M). Some will say not to worry because we just won't pay Seto (he'll be a rental) and/or Jokinen next year. Burmi for better or worse better stay in the KHL because we don't have the money to pay him if he were to return (we'd be over the cap). That's not draft and develop.

Draft and develop means moving older players for younger less developed talent. We are not and have not been doing that. We're drafting no different than any other team. We're also not stockpiling picks. We're going to get old very fast. We're also not in a position to even look at an UFA right now. We are getting closer to cap ruin and we may not be any closer to the playoffs. I guess I'm praying we get a lot better very quickly or else this experiment will fall on it's face just as quickly.
Sounds like you are advocating a rebuild more than draft and develop pcanuck?

draft....this last draft we had 10 picks which is allot

Develop.....so far no TNSE drafted played has been rushed into the NHL so they seem committed to patience and development.

It's about finding balance between competing today while putting a system in place to fill the pipeline as time goes by.

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