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Should Bergevin offer sheet Cowen?

View Poll Results: Should Bergevin offer sheet Cowen?
Yes 39 32.23%
No 82 67.77%
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Old
07-25-2013, 07:45 AM
  #51
Patty Roy
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Originally Posted by Forsead View Post
The team doesn't need a Cowen (He's very good, but I think Tinordi will be that guy) IMO.
Uh Cowen is exactly what this team needs. But i think we are better off just sticking with Tinordi and hoping he develops into that then going the offer sheet route.

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07-25-2013, 07:45 AM
  #52
Watsatheo
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Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
Try to get Mclrath via trade before you give up too much for Cowen.
I wish the Habs tried Kristo+ for him.

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07-25-2013, 11:20 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Chris Cutter View Post
No need for Cowen since he's not a righty. It's like the people who wanted us to move up for Morin, we already have Tinordi, what's the point?
Like 90% of the fafans out there you guys just dont know what ur talking about

Morin has more potential than Tinordi, more offensive upside, more mobile, faster etc...

Again...you gotta know what ur talking about

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07-25-2013, 11:21 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
I wish the Habs tried Kristo+ for him.
You and me both..

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07-25-2013, 11:24 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by danyhabsfan View Post
I like Cowen but I wouldnt do it.

Anyway we have our own version of Cowen in Tinordi.
2 Tinordis are better than one

I would do it. Even if they match the offer, at least you took away some cap space from a rival team

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07-25-2013, 11:27 AM
  #56
Dagistitsyn
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Originally Posted by lesHabitants514 View Post
2 Tinordis are better than one

I would do it. Even if they match the offer, at least you took away some cap space from a rival team
and then they offer sheet Eller and Subban just to do the same.
MTL wouldn't even consider pulling that offer sheet ****, imo.

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07-25-2013, 11:37 AM
  #57
lesHabitants514
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Originally Posted by Dagistitsyn View Post
and then they offer sheet Eller and Subban just to do the same.
MTL wouldn't even consider pulling that offer sheet ****, imo.
It's what I would do...offer sheets are definitely NOT Habs style of business. I doubt GM's go around looking for payback, they have a team to run... You do what's good for your team. Getting Cowen would help us, at what price? I don't know but another 6'5 230 pound Dman, or Tinordi type player, can make us a tough team to play against. IMHO and its not like Ottawa and Montreal are good trading buddies, they're rivals!9 so who cares about that relationship!

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07-25-2013, 11:44 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lesHabitants514 View Post
2 Tinordis are better than one

I would do it. Even if they match the offer, at least you took away some cap space from a rival team
Ottawa have near the most cap space in the league. It would make a lot more sense to offer sheet Nyquist ~3.2 mil because Detroit already don't have cap space. If they don't match it's only a 2nd round pick compensation. Good way to make enemies though.

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07-25-2013, 11:46 AM
  #59
Dagistitsyn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lesHabitants514 View Post
It's what I would do...offer sheets are definitely NOT Habs style of business. I doubt GM's go around looking for payback, they have a team to run... You do what's good for your team. Getting Cowen would help us, at what price? I don't know but another 6'5 230 pound Dman, or Tinordi type player, can make us a tough team to play against. IMHO and its not like Ottawa and Montreal are good trading buddies, they're rivals!9 so who cares about that relationship!
Yes, Cowen would definitely help us and I'm actually a big fan of his. I just don't think its worth it because it would almost guarantee Ottawa returning the favor next year with either Subban or Eller.

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07-25-2013, 11:57 AM
  #60
lesHabitants514
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Originally Posted by Dagistitsyn View Post
Yes, Cowen would definitely help us and I'm actually a big fan of his. I just don't think its worth it because it would almost guarantee Ottawa returning the favor next year with either Subban or Eller.
I don't believe GM's look for payback, I doubt they offer sheet Subban. They have Karlsson making a lot and we're almost certain PK is going to be in 7 mill range, if not more so I doubt they try that. Eller is a possibility..... But how much can theyoffer him? They already have Turris and Spezza. It's a chance I personally would take. Again, not Habs style to give an offer sheet but.... Maybe it should be. Do everything in your power to be/get better. If its legal, do it!

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Old
07-25-2013, 03:11 PM
  #61
Mike8
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
Who cares? We have more money than them. And I don't think any good manager would really operate in a purely vindictive manner anyway. If they find a situation where an offer sheet makes sense for them, then they can go ahead and make one too. I would expect any team to operate that way independent of any motives of revenge. It's just part of the rules of the CBA, and if you end up in a situation where the benefit outweighs the cost on the player/$$$/compensation side of things, you should go ahead and make the move, regardless of "repercussions".
This is rational, of course, but it's not in line with historical behaviour of GMs. You may not think that any (good) manager would operate in a purely vindictive manner, but there are a couple of caveats in that phrase: the assumption that other GMs are good, and that any vindictive move would be motivated purely by revenge.

Montreal has more money than Ottawa, but Montreal's a team that historically spends to the cap, while Ottawa isn't. Ottawa also has an owner with a larger personality and ego, and who may become involved in these issues. Ottawa doesn't need to be motivated 'purely' by vindictiveness to offersheet a good young Montreal RFA; they need to be motivated only partially for that reason for it to hurt Montreal.

Normally I'd concur with the proposal of utilising offersheets, but in this case, it doesn't make sense to me.

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07-25-2013, 08:29 PM
  #62
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Blithely tossing out offer sheets would be irrational for the Habs. They need to keep all their first round picks until they're set at every position for years to come.

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07-26-2013, 08:02 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
Normally I'd concur with the proposal of utilising offersheets, but in this case, it doesn't make sense to me.
Anyway, even if I thought that Ottawa had zany management and would with 100% certainty attempt to operate in a purely vindictive manner with regards to our upcoming RFAs like Eller and Subban, then I would still offersheet Cowen. It's still a good deal to get a player of precisely the type we need, no risk, for just a 1st + 3rd pick and some $$$ on the cap that we aren't using. And if Ottawa wants to match and then turn around and try to drive up the price on Eller and Subban, that's fine with me, I will have already done my due dilligence to see that they don't get the chance, but if it comes down to it, we still have matching rights, just like Ottawa does with Cowen, and decisions on any such scenarios can be made with due consideration at the appropriate time.

I would also suggest not underestimating the degree of financial constraint the Sens might be operating under. Cowen is a promising young player, but not really a big crowd pleaser or ticket seller, he's not Alfredsson, losing him wouldn't necessarily get them too worked up, and they may well not have the resources to risk tendering premium offer sheets of their own. There are limits now on how much you can front load things, but still, the Habs will have the resources to also pile up money in ways that could stretch the Sens' budget further in short timeframes. I would offer Cowen a back-diving $31M/7yr contract, say, and see if they could handle that. $7M-$5.5M-$4.5M-$3.5M-$3.5M-$3.5M-$3.5M, something like that, whatever the formula can handle, basically. Of course, I'm not sure Cowen would sign the offersheet anyway, even with such a deal on the table. He probably wouldn't, so it would all be quite moot. But just in principle, I'd be willing to at least pursue such RFA poaching opportunities on the right players, such as Cowen.

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07-26-2013, 04:42 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
Anyway, even if I thought that Ottawa had zany management and would with 100% certainty attempt to operate in a purely vindictive manner with regards to our upcoming RFAs like Eller and Subban, then I would still offersheet Cowen. It's still a good deal to get a player of precisely the type we need, no risk, for just a 1st + 3rd pick and some $$$ on the cap that we aren't using. And if Ottawa wants to match and then turn around and try to drive up the price on Eller and Subban, that's fine with me, I will have already done my due dilligence to see that they don't get the chance, but if it comes down to it, we still have matching rights, just like Ottawa does with Cowen, and decisions on any such scenarios can be made with due consideration at the appropriate time.

I would also suggest not underestimating the degree of financial constraint the Sens might be operating under. Cowen is a promising young player, but not really a big crowd pleaser or ticket seller, he's not Alfredsson, losing him wouldn't necessarily get them too worked up, and they may well not have the resources to risk tendering premium offer sheets of their own. There are limits now on how much you can front load things, but still, the Habs will have the resources to also pile up money in ways that could stretch the Sens' budget further in short timeframes. I would offer Cowen a back-diving $31M/7yr contract, say, and see if they could handle that. $7M-$5.5M-$4.5M-$3.5M-$3.5M-$3.5M-$3.5M, something like that, whatever the formula can handle, basically. Of course, I'm not sure Cowen would sign the offersheet anyway, even with such a deal on the table. He probably wouldn't, so it would all be quite moot. But just in principle, I'd be willing to at least pursue such RFA poaching opportunities on the right players, such as Cowen.
All fair and well considered points.

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07-26-2013, 06:41 PM
  #65
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Cowen before Franson or trading for Coburn. As is said here, he looks to be a great fit.

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07-26-2013, 06:57 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by NLHabsFan View Post
There's only been 8 since the 2005 Lockout and only one (Penner) has not been matched.

Though in the 90's there were offer sheets every summer.
You are right: only 8 since 1999: two by the Flyers and two by Edmonton.

Recently, Shea Weber was matched despite the 13M bonus for the first four years.

I was sure Nashville would not match.

With 74M in revenue and loosing 5.5M in 2010.
Team is valued at 148M, bought at 174M and had 81M in debt (Stadium included and it seems it is very busy).
So with Weber contract, they are probably receiving money from the revenue sharing program.

Basically, Weber cost them 13.585M this year. Using 48/82 of their 2010 revenue, it represents more than 30% of their revenue.

How much Toronto is paying on this contract?

But my point was: there are very few offer sheets (one per year) and we should not expect an offer sheet from MB.

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08-10-2013, 11:25 AM
  #67
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Would you guys trade Tinordi for Cowen??

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08-10-2013, 11:31 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by BLONG7 View Post
Would you guys trade Tinordi for Cowen??
If Cowen didn't have past injury problems, yes.
I can't think of a more pointless trade for these two teams though.

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08-10-2013, 11:52 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Dagistitsyn View Post
If Cowen didn't have past injury problems, yes.
I can't think of a more pointless trade for these two teams though.
Tinordi has more upside, but I am biased....Sens fans would tell us Cowen is a 1st pairing type of guy...

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08-10-2013, 11:58 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by BLONG7 View Post
Tinordi has more upside, but I am biased....Sens fans would tell us Cowen is a 1st pairing type of guy...
Based on what? Cowen has put up more points at every level. I know that's not everything but everytime I've seen Cowen play I was impressed. They're basically the same size (Cowen is bigger, Tinordi maybe an inch taller). Cowen goes 9th overall, Tinordi 22nd. One year age difference. I just don't see how Tinordi has more upside personally.


Last edited by Dagistitsyn: 08-10-2013 at 12:05 PM.
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08-10-2013, 12:08 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
I wish the Habs tried Kristo+ for him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
You and me both..
Maybe the possibility of trading Kristo for Cowen is so far fetched, Bergevin didn't want to humiliate himself by bothering to ask? I mean he could have offered Leblanc for Ziba as well while he was at it.

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08-10-2013, 01:12 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
Maybe the possibility of trading Kristo for Cowen is so far fetched, Bergevin didn't want to humiliate himself by bothering to ask? I mean he could have offered Leblanc for Ziba as well while he was at it.
They were talking about McIlrath not Cowen

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08-10-2013, 01:29 PM
  #73
shutehinside
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Originally Posted by jmdubois585 View Post
They were talking about McIlrath not Cowen
That would make a lot more sense. I couldn't believe they'd make such a dumb trade proposal.

Thanks!

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