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Old
07-26-2013, 11:23 AM
  #476
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
But you know what I mean. People complaining that this guy should have been drafted here, this trade should have returned another draft pick, this contract should have been $200k and one year less. If you read these boards (all of HF, really), I would estimate that you wind find that the vast majority of NHL transaction are terrible moves for which the GM should fired.
Most posts on forums like HF are reactionary when it comes to changes to a team's roster/management, so I would agree with that.

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07-26-2013, 11:35 AM
  #477
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The only moves I really have an significant issue with since the 2007 rebuild are the Eminger for a 1st trade and the Bryzgalov contract.

The rest were either relatively necessary evils, inconsequential despite the fact that we nitpicked them, solid moves that help despite not being spectacular, or exceptional moves to continue the consistent success of our franchise.

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07-26-2013, 11:41 AM
  #478
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Dreger all but confirming Franson is on the block. Wanting too much money to fit into the Leafs plans going forward. If we weren't so jammed up at the cap, I would love to try and get him. Right handed shot who had a good year last year, but otherwise has been inconsistent as a player.

If we did have the cap space, I think my offer for him would be Cousins+3rd. Of course Leaf fans are going to want a great prospect and a 1st, and will be extremely disappointed when he gets moved for far less.

LOL, a leaf fan is comparing Voynov and Franson.


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07-26-2013, 12:10 PM
  #479
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No, it was goaltending that cost us the 2010 Cup. It's not rocket science...when your goaltender is Leighton, who sucks, and he sucks his way to getting pulled a few times and 22 goals scored isn't enough, it's the goalie.

The 3rd pairing is a non-issue with a real goalie. The only problem with that 3rd pairing was their inability to babysit Leighton.

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07-26-2013, 12:28 PM
  #480
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No, it was goaltending that cost us the 2010 Cup. It's not rocket science...when your goaltender is Leighton, who sucks, and he sucks his way to getting pulled a few times and 22 goals scored isn't enough, it's the goalie.

The 3rd pairing is a non-issue with a real goalie. The only problem with that 3rd pairing was their inability to babysit Leighton.
And what about your two most relied upon forwards (defensively and offensively) and Gagne being pretty much invisible? For God's sake if Carter scored on that empty net the Flyers could very well have won the Cup that year. Obviously having a better goalie would have helped, but it also would have helped if the other things I mentioned would have happened. So just saying it's obvious a new goalie would have helped is the exact same thing as saying having your two best forwards show up also would have helped. It wasn't JUST goaltending.

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07-26-2013, 12:43 PM
  #481
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
And what about your two most relied upon forwards (defensively and offensively) and Gagne being pretty much invisible? For God's sake if Carter scored on that empty net the Flyers could very well have won the Cup that year. Obviously having a better goalie would have helped, but it also would have helped if the other things I mentioned would have happened. So just saying it's obvious a new goalie would have helped is the exact same thing as saying having your two best forwards show up also would have helped. It wasn't JUST goaltending.
You mean if Niemi hadn't made a great save? That thing our goalie was incapable of? No, sorry, it WAS just goaltending.

Gagne and Carter were playing on broken feet. They did pretty damned well, all things considered. The team scored enough goals to win as it was, but Leighton is a bum.

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07-26-2013, 12:44 PM
  #482
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
No, it was goaltending that cost us the 2010 Cup. It's not rocket science...when your goaltender is Leighton, who sucks, and he sucks his way to getting pulled a few times and 22 goals scored isn't enough, it's the goalie. The 3rd pairing is a non-issue with a real goalie. The only problem with that 3rd pairing was their inability to babysit Leighton.
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Why it will be tough to repeat: C'mon, a highly touted and capable goalie coming to the Flyers? How could that possibly go wrong? Plus, challenging for the No. 1 gig and actually being given the No. 1 gig to start the season are two different things.
http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...-do-that-again

I thought you might find this interesting.

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07-26-2013, 12:45 PM
  #483
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http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...-do-that-again

I thought you might find this interesting.

I fully expect another hipsplosion.

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07-26-2013, 12:51 PM
  #484
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And what about your two most relied upon forwards (defensively and offensively) and Gagne being pretty much invisible? For God's sake if Carter scored on that empty net the Flyers could very well have won the Cup that year. Obviously having a better goalie would have helped, but it also would have helped if the other things I mentioned would have happened. So just saying it's obvious a new goalie would have helped is the exact same thing as saying having your two best forwards show up also would have helped. It wasn't JUST goaltending.
Richards role was to control Toews in that series and he did. Toews finished the playoffs with 29 pts in 22 games but was held to 3 pts (all assists) in the finals which is impressive considering it was a crazy scoring series. Richards added a goal and an assist in those 6 games, sure everyone wanted more but it's unfair to put the blame on him IMO, he did his job. And while Carter only had one goal and 1a in the finals he played better then his numbers indicated, specifically on defense. Blaming the cup loss on one moment (missing the empty netter) is pretty short sighted. Gagne, as well as Carter also have the injury card to play.

Leighton sucked for the entire series, though the last goal was particularly sucky. I do agree that it wasn't just goaltending but the vast majority of the blame should be on the goaltending, like 98 percent.

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07-26-2013, 01:49 PM
  #485
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How many goals did the Flyers put up in game 1? Like 7 or 8? If they had a decent goalie they probably would've won that game, which would've changed the series completely.

You can't put all the blame on goaltending, but most of it should be. At this point, I say it is what it is. They had an amazing run that ended with a heart breaking goal. I've moved on...sort of

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07-26-2013, 02:06 PM
  #486
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkman View Post
http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...-do-that-again

I thought you might find this interesting.
Being Philadelphians, there are the two highest credible sources of hockey information to be found as Flyers fans:

Ourselves (well at least as an HFBoards information community) and Bill Meltzer.

Being Philadelphians, there are two sources that we deem unfit to give us information:

The vast majority of mass-media staff writers covering the Flyers and ESPN.

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07-26-2013, 02:07 PM
  #487
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Game one was extremely winnable. They had to tighten the reins and could have used more netminding help. They gave it away.

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07-26-2013, 02:08 PM
  #488
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Originally Posted by CS View Post
Ourselves (well at least as an HFBoards information community) and Bill Meltzer.

Being Philadelphians, there are two sources that we deem unfit to give us information:

The vast majority of mass-media staff writers covering the Flyers and ESPN.
Amen.

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Old
07-26-2013, 03:15 PM
  #489
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So does Giroux? Giroux took the most FO last year of any player, he plays the PP and the PK.

In terms of overall skills both are equal and you could argue for either to be the better two way forward (In that regard Giroux, Bergeron, Dats and Toews are my top 4 in no particular order)
Uhhh no way. In fact that falls under "one of these things is not even close to the others"

Also, just taking FOs does not make one a two way player, it just makes them a center.

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Old
07-26-2013, 04:07 PM
  #490
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
Richards role was to control Toews in that series and he did. Toews finished the playoffs with 29 pts in 22 games but was held to 3 pts (all assists) in the finals which is impressive considering it was a crazy scoring series. Richards added a goal and an assist in those 6 games, sure everyone wanted more but it's unfair to put the blame on him IMO, he did his job. And while Carter only had one goal and 1a in the finals he played better then his numbers indicated, specifically on defense. Blaming the cup loss on one moment (missing the empty netter) is pretty short sighted. Gagne, as well as Carter also have the injury card to play.

Leighton sucked for the entire series, though the last goal was particularly sucky. I do agree that it wasn't just goaltending but the vast majority of the blame should be on the goaltending, like 98 percent.
I think you are misunderstanding what I'm saying. I'm not saying goaltending WASN'T an issue and that Richards/Carter/Gagne WERE THE ONLY issue. I'm saying that there was no ONE reason. Yes, improved goaltending would have helped. Just like improved play from Richards/Carter/Gagne would have helped. If the goalies played the same, but Richards/Carter/Gagne chipped in a couple more goals the Flyers would possibly have won. Just like if the forwards played the same but Leighton made a couple more saves, they would have possibly won. Throw in the third pairing playing a little better and Pronger being able to control Byufglien a little better and it's all the more likely. There was not ONE problem in that series. There were a couple.

Blaming Leighton is the easiest and most obvious problem, but it is absurd to tell me that Gagne/Richards/Carter getting more involved offensively would not have had the same impact...three of the four losses were one goal games. It really isn't asking too much that your top two scorers from the regular season have a better offensive series (even if Richards did shut down Toews). Yes Leighton was a problem, but so were all the other issues I mentioned.

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07-26-2013, 04:09 PM
  #491
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The thing is, the offense didn't need to improve. It was still really good. The goaltending, though. That was horrible.

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07-26-2013, 04:39 PM
  #492
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In other news, Parros is a Hab now.

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07-26-2013, 04:41 PM
  #493
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Richards role was to control Toews in that series and he did. Toews finished the playoffs with 29 pts in 22 games but was held to 3 pts (all assists) in the finals which is impressive considering it was a crazy scoring series. Richards added a goal and an assist in those 6 games, sure everyone wanted more but it's unfair to put the blame on him IMO, he did his job. And while Carter only had one goal and 1a in the finals he played better then his numbers indicated, specifically on defense. Blaming the cup loss on one moment (missing the empty netter) is pretty short sighted. Gagne, as well as Carter also have the injury card to play.

Leighton sucked for the entire series, though the last goal was particularly sucky. I do agree that it wasn't just goaltending but the vast majority of the blame should be on the goaltending, like 98 percent.
I would credit Pronger more than I would Richards for shutting down Towes. The Hawks had Towes & Kane on a line for the majority of the playoffs & had to spilt them up after game 4 because Pronger shut them down.

There's no doubt if we would have won the cup that year that he should have been the Conn Smythe winner even over Briere IMO. He was that dominant & our MVP that playoff run.

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07-26-2013, 04:52 PM
  #494
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In other news, Parros is a Hab now.
As opposed to what he was last week?

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07-26-2013, 05:26 PM
  #495
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As opposed to what he was last week?
Oh, that trade happened that long ago? I only just saw it. I don't know how I missed that earthshaker.

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07-26-2013, 05:50 PM
  #496
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Oh, that trade happened that long ago? I only just saw it. I don't know how I missed that earthshaker.
Yeah George Laraque pretty much called him a turtling ***** 2 weeks ago.

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07-26-2013, 05:54 PM
  #497
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Oh, that trade happened that long ago? I only just saw it. I don't know how I missed that earthshaker.
The Boston effect.

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07-26-2013, 08:09 PM
  #498
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The thing is, the offense didn't need to improve. It was still really good. The goaltending, though. That was horrible.
I didn't say "the offense" needed to be better. Richards, Carter, and Gagne needed to be better. To win the Cup, everyone has to show up. Goaltending was an issue, but there is no argument that you can make to tell me that if Richards, Carter, and Gagne had produced more offensively that it would not have had the same impact as improved goaltending.

Like I said, 3/4 losses were one goal games. Richards had 21 points in the first three series. Carter had 5 points (in the six games he played in). Gagne had 10 points in the first three series. In the Cup Finals they scored a COMBINED 6 points and were a -21. It defies logic to argue that you would say that improved offensive play from these three would not have had the same impact as better goaltending in three one goal games.

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07-26-2013, 08:18 PM
  #499
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I take it you didn't actually follow the Flyers at the time of the trade? It was a bad trade, but it was a trade that had to be made given Sharp was getting no ice time here. Sharp was going no where here, got Ellison and a 3rd rounder which was flipped for Dimitrakos. At the time it was just another nothing trade, because there's no way Sharp turned into anything here.

see thread - http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...d.php?t=198184
if the Flyers cant move Meszaros I could see Holmgren dealing Gus for a pick to "do him a favor" much the same way that Sharp deal went down and we all know how the Holmgren supporters will feel about it.

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07-26-2013, 08:23 PM
  #500
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if the Flyers cant move Meszaros I could see Holmgren dealing Gus for a pick to "do him a favor" much the same way that Sharp deal went down and we all know how the Holmgren supporters will feel about it.
No. There would be a riot and rightfully so.

Truth is we could buyout Meszaros or bury him or even trade a 2nd with him to dump him. All are much more viable options than trading Gus.

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