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07-26-2013, 12:15 PM
  #226
Monctonscout
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Since when is 40~ points a high end 2nd line player? Maybe high end 3rd player, if DD was actually good in his own end and could win a board battle. Guy is brutal.
He had 88 points in 129 games, that works out to 56 over a full season. In a normal season that puts him around 65-70 overall, in the WHOLE NHL. On what planet is that a 3rd liner?

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07-26-2013, 12:19 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
James Mirtle ‏@mirtle 20s So @DarrenDreger notes Franson's asking price is likely too high for Leafs, given ugly cap situation. Bad news given his play in postseason.

Leafs are a weird team...they spend crazy money on Clarkson, who's a solid but not great player, pay a back up goalie but go cheap on defense where their biggest need is.
I'd take Franson on our team for sure, but if he wants 4M+ that's too much.

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07-26-2013, 12:21 PM
  #228
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I'd take Franson on our team for sure, but if he wants 4M+ that's too much.
Ditto. Big body that's hard to move from the crease and a rocket for a shot. Defiantly adds some size and depth to our back end but must be for the right price.

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07-26-2013, 12:21 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
He had 88 points in 129 games, that works out to 56 over a full season. In a normal season that puts him around 65-70 overall, in the WHOLE NHL. On what planet is that a 3rd liner?
... We all know what we see when we watch DDlicious. He's inefective at everything. Last year he was on pace for what, 30 points ?

Sure, he had a career year two years ago with heavily sheltered minutes but that doesn't make him a TOP 70 player in the league. I'd be hard pressed to find a team where DD would be a fit in the top 6. He's not one here, and I don't think he his anywhere else.

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07-26-2013, 12:21 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
James Mirtle ‏@mirtle 20s So @DarrenDreger notes Franson's asking price is likely too high for Leafs, given ugly cap situation. Bad news given his play in postseason.

Leafs are a weird team...they spend crazy money on Clarkson, who's a solid but not great player, pay a back up goalie but go cheap on defense where their biggest need is.
I'm loving the Leafs' offseason! They are setting themselves up for a rough decade.

IMO Franson would be a great fit for Montreal, if he does get moved.

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07-26-2013, 12:23 PM
  #231
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Franson would be a great fit.. But we'd need to get rid of someone.

Either Markov or Diaz.

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07-26-2013, 12:26 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Franson would be a great fit.. But we'd need to get rid of someone.

Either Markov or Diaz.
I don't really see a fit.

He gives us more of what we already have, will cost 4+ mil and will cost assets(picks or players).

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07-26-2013, 12:28 PM
  #233
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
... We all know what we see when we watch DDlicious. He's inefective at everything. Last year he was on pace for what, 30 points ?

Sure, he had a career year two years ago with heavily sheltered minutes but that doesn't make him a TOP 70 player in the league. I'd be hard pressed to find a team where DD would be a fit in the top 6. He's not one here, and I don't think he his anywhere else.
Lots of guys get sheltered minutes and they don't put up 55-60 points a year.

If you can't find any team where Dd would play top 6 not only are you not looking hard, you're not even looking. There are 8-10 team,s at least looking for help in the top 6.

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07-26-2013, 12:28 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
I don't really see a fit.

He gives us more of what we already have, will cost 4+ mil and will cost assets(picks or players).
It's why I said that we should move one of the two expendable PMD's.

I think he's an upgrade over these two. Markov and Diaz might be the better players though but they both have their issues (Old, injuries, small, soft.) While Franson has none of those..

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07-26-2013, 12:30 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
Ditto. Big body that's hard to move from the crease and a rocket for a shot. Defiantly adds some size and depth to our back end but must be for the right price.
Cody Franson not Johan Franson.

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07-26-2013, 12:32 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
It's why I said that we should move one of the two expendable PMD's.

I think he's an upgrade over these two. Markov and Diaz might be the better players though but they both have their issues (Old, injuries, small, soft.) While Franson has none of those..
He's not an upgrade on Markov. He's about on par with Diaz, bigger but softer.

Diaz makes less money(about 1 mil vs 4+ mil) and he's already here, we don't have to acquire him.

I don't see a fit at all unless Toronto wants to dump him cheap.

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07-26-2013, 12:33 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Lots of guys get sheltered minutes and they don't put up 55-60 points a year.

If you can't find any team where Dd would play top 6 not only are you not looking hard, you're not even looking. There are 8-10 team,s at least looking for help in the top 6.
He's a dime a dozen player... Nothing special.


That kind of player is as common as the Mike Blunden type.

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07-26-2013, 12:34 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
I don't really see a fit.

He gives us more of what we already have, will cost 4+ mil and will cost assets(picks or players).
Right now, the only dmen I have faith to play top 4 roles for the Habs are Subban and Markov. Nobody seems to know how long it will be until Emelin returns. I was very disappointed by the performance of Gorges-Diaz when we needed them to take on a bigger role (in Gorges' case to be the leader on a pairing, in Diaz's case to face tougher competition). On the left side, at least we have kids knocking at the door, but there's nobody imminent on the right side. On the 2nd PP unit, there's no good option to play with Diaz. I'm not in favor of paying strictly for offense for that unit, but Franson would fill that role nicely, while providing solid play 5v5, being a right handed shot, and being young enough that he could be part of the solution long term.

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07-26-2013, 12:35 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
He's not an upgrade on Markov. He's about on par with Diaz, bigger but softer.

Diaz makes less money(about 1 mil vs 4+ mil) and he's already here, we don't have to acquire him.

I don't see a fit at all unless Toronto wants to dump him cheap.
Like I said, I believe both are better players than him, but for future considerations Franson might be the better option.

Let's no kid anyone also, he's not softer than Diaz.

Diaz is Karlsson level soft.

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Old
07-26-2013, 12:38 PM
  #240
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
He's a dime a dozen player... Nothing special.


That kind of player is as common as the Mike Blunden type.
If he is so common why don't teams like Washington, Nashville, Vancouver and Buffalo with big holes in their top 6 not just add one?

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07-26-2013, 12:42 PM
  #241
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Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
Right now, the only dmen I have faith to play top 4 roles for the Habs are Subban and Markov. Nobody seems to know how long it will be until Emelin returns. I was very disappointed by the performance of Gorges-Diaz when we needed them to take on a bigger role (in Gorges' case to be the leader on a pairing, in Diaz's case to face tougher competition). On the left side, at least we have kids knocking at the door, but there's nobody imminent on the right side. On the 2nd PP unit, there's no good option to play with Diaz. I'm not in favor of paying strictly for offense for that unit, but Franson would fill that role nicely, while providing solid play 5v5, being a right handed shot, and being young enough that he could be part of the solution long term.
At 4+ mil he'll be too expensive for the 3rd pair long term. Plus I doubt Toronto trades him to us for a 3rd or 4th rounder.

I don't like they cap hit nor the potential asking price.

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07-26-2013, 12:44 PM
  #242
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
If he is so common why don't teams like Washington, Nashville, Vancouver and Buffalo with big holes in their top 6 not just add one?
Same reason why Eller and Gally who haven't produced as much are getting bigger role on team and pushing away DD. He sucks.

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07-26-2013, 12:44 PM
  #243
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Like I said, I believe both are better players than him, but for future considerations Franson might be the better option.

Let's no kid anyone also, he's not softer than Diaz.

Diaz is Karlsson level soft.
Diaz isn't soft, he just knows when to take a hit and when not to. Plekanec Alfredsson Datstyuk are guys like that, I assume you call them soft? He constantly wins 1 on 1 battles with bigger players. I guess this being HF boards and him being 5'11" he defaults to being "soft" unless he fights a top 10 NHl heavyweight and wins.

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07-26-2013, 12:47 PM
  #244
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Originally Posted by uiCk View Post
Same reason why Eller and Gally who haven't produced as much are getting bigger role on team and pushing away DD. He sucks.
Those guys have to earn bigger roles, not have it handed to him. Galchenyuk played massively insulated minutes last year, a lot more than DD.

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07-26-2013, 12:53 PM
  #245
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Those guys have to earn bigger roles, not have it handed to him. Galchenyuk played massively insulated minutes last year, a lot more than DD.
Handed to them? Eller's been working hard just to get an extra min or two per game, producing without PP time. Gally getting sheltered? no ****, he;s like 12 years old....

if anyone's getting things handed to them its DD, by sidelining Eller from PP and by giving him undeserved extension mid season... Like if he was going anywhere..

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07-26-2013, 01:16 PM
  #246
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
If he is so common why don't teams like Washington, Nashville, Vancouver and Buffalo with big holes in their top 6 not just add one?
Why don't they sign him ? There's similar players left and they're not signing at ridiculous cap hits. Maybe because he's not a solution ? Why don't we just offer him to them then ? They'll take him ? Vancouver acquired Derek Roy and let him walk at the end of the season, why? He's not a fit, like DD isn't a fit. These kind of players are stop gaps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Diaz isn't soft, he just knows when to take a hit and when not to. Plekanec Alfredsson Datstyuk are guys like that, I assume you call them soft? He constantly wins 1 on 1 battles with bigger players. I guess this being HF boards and him being 5'11" he defaults to being "soft" unless he fights a top 10 NHl heavyweight and wins.
Plekanec, alfredsson and Datsyuk are not soft at all. Diaz is. When was the last time you saw him in a scrum ? When was the last time you saw him battle for the puck in the corners ? Yeah. Likely never. He's soft.

I still like him though.

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07-26-2013, 01:20 PM
  #247
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Why don't they sign him ? There's similar players left and they're not signing at ridiculous cap hits. Maybe because he's not a solution ? Why don't we just offer him to them then ? They'll take him ? Vancouver acquired Derek Roy and let him walk at the end of the season, why? He's not a fit, like DD isn't a fit. These kind of players are stop gaps.



Plekanec, alfredsson and Datsyuk are not soft at all. Diaz is. When was the last time you saw him in a scrum ? When was the last time you saw him battle for the puck in the corners ? Yeah. Likely never. He's soft.

I still like him though.
What similar players are left? The only one I can think of is Grabovsky and there are 3-4 teams after him, and he won't sign cheap. He'll get north of 4 mil even with a dropping cap.

What does a scrum have to do with being soft or not? I see Diaz battle for the puck in the corners a lot and he usually wins his battles, even the ones he loses he maintains good body position so it doesn't lead to a scoring chance. He's a very smart defensive player.

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07-26-2013, 01:49 PM
  #248
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
What similar players are left? The only one I can think of is Grabovsky and there are 3-4 teams after him, and he won't sign cheap. He'll get north of 4 mil even with a dropping cap.

What does a scrum have to do with being soft or not? I see Diaz battle for the puck in the corners a lot and he usually wins his battles, even the ones he loses he maintains good body position so it doesn't lead to a scoring chance. He's a very smart defensive player.
Well here's the problem... You have a hard time with you talent analysis. Grabovski is a lot more effective in everything he does. Comparable players would be Connolly or Lombardi.

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07-26-2013, 02:02 PM
  #249
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Well here's the problem... You have a hard time with you talent analysis. Grabovski is a lot more effective in everything he does. Comparable players would be Connolly or Lombardi.
I have a hard time with my talent analysis?

bahahhaha

So you compare a guy with 88 points in 129 games(0.68 PPGM) the last 2 years with...

A guy with 26 points in 90 games(0.28 PPGM)...

Another with 36 in 70 games(0.51 PPGM) in 11-12 and wasn't even in the NHL last year.

And a guy that's "a lot more effective" had 67 points in 122(0.54 PPGM).


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07-26-2013, 02:07 PM
  #250
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
I have a hard time with my talent analysis?

bahahhaha

So you compare a guy with 88 points in 129 games(0.68 PPGM) the last 2 years with...

A guy with 26 points in 90 games(0.28 PPGM)...

Another with 36 in 70 games(0.51 PPGM) in 11-12 and wasn't even in the NHL last year.

And a guy that's "a lot more effective" had 67 points in 122(0.54 PPGM).

You're a lost cause. The only argument you bring to the table is the 88 points.

We all know that DD is a liability more often than not.

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