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Boyle, Couture, Thornton, Vlasic; Pavelski & Niemi invited to Olympic camps

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07-25-2013, 10:29 PM
  #126
Mafoofoo
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Originally Posted by do0glas View Post
didnt say they were great numbers. but its funny that marleau gets the big game ghost monicker and thornton gets a pass.
lol what? According to HF Thornton is one of the biggest chokers ever. Don't even try to say he gets a pass.

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07-25-2013, 10:32 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Mafoofoo View Post
lol what? According to HF Thornton is one of the biggest chokers ever. Don't even try to say he gets a pass.
was more referring to marleau vs. thornton here, probably more recently, i know both of them have gotten their fair share of hate.

i think its dumb overall.

sucks they havent won a cup but they wouldve shed a lot of that by even getting to the finals. just a dumb perception

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07-26-2013, 10:25 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by do0glas View Post
agreed. i know there is an inherent tighter quality to an elimination game, but they will still fall prey to a small sample size, luck, and other random variances that occur. 3 points in 7 elimination games isnt great, but its almost .5 ppg in those situations.

i think the mistake comes in like you said trying to define something as "clutch". in terms of perception, had marleaus point totals been the same but we won those games he would be praised in the media as a leader, and doing the little things.

its a ridiculous notion given that just 3 years ago on big ice, marleau was 5 pt in 7gp. whatever.
big ice? no the last olympics were played on nhl sized rinks. not the big ice.

for reference marleau's last big ice tournament was the 2004-05 world championships, where he finished the tournament with 4 points in 9 games (silver).

suprisingly marleau actually does worse on the big ice, compared to the smaller rinks of the north american tournaments.

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07-26-2013, 12:22 PM
  #129
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Both Marleau and Thornton are "losers" who won't make team Canada. Sorry, but outside San Jose the Sharks organization is a joke and we'll never get any respect unless we win a cup.

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07-26-2013, 02:56 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Mafoofoo View Post
lol what? According to HF Thornton is one of the biggest chokers ever. Don't even try to say he gets a pass.
You miss interpreted. He was saying marleau gets hated on. He was saying Thornton shouldn't get a pass he should get equal blame tomm. But that isn't always the case. And playoff choker is far from what Thornton is. Using hf as your main source for player info is never good. Check the stats. As a shark he has 79 PTS in 90 playoff games.


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07-26-2013, 03:34 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by hockfan1991 View Post
You miss interpreted. He was saying marleau gets hated on. He was saying Thornton shouldn't get a pass he should get equal blame tomm. But that isn't always the case. And playoff choker is far from what Thornton is. Using hf as your main source for player info is never good. Check the stats. As a shark he has 79 PTS in 90 playoff games.
Its not just hf that spouts it, up until the back to back conference finals basically all media said the same thing.

Even though he had won at world jrs, world cup, world championships, swiss elite league, spengler cup, and at the start of the 1st back to backs was an olympic gold.

He has basically won at every level he has gone except in the nhl, which always is touted as being the hardest team championship to win in the world. But apparently when it comes to saying if some one is a playoff performer or not it should be easy to win one.

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07-26-2013, 03:40 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Barrie22 View Post
Its not just hf that spouts it, up until the back to back conference finals basically all media said the same thing.

Even though he had won at world jrs, world cup, world championships, swiss elite league, spengler cup, and at the start of the 1st back to backs was an olympic gold.

He has basically won at every level he has gone except in the nhl, which always is touted as being the hardest team championship to win in the world. But apparently when it comes to saying if some one is a playoff performer or not it should be easy to win one.
This may have been his best playoffs as a shark. He will always shudder blame as he is the captain etc. but truth is either we haven't had depth on d few years back. Or we haven't had and depth on 3rd 4th lines. Not his fault. Give Thornton some blame for not getting over the hump. But if he's a choker so are 90 percent of the league. Replace Thornton with any player in the league not named Crosby. The sharks would still not have a better chance at a cup . Toews kopitar etc. yes have won cups but I don't believe either of them would make any difference for the sharks. Thornton has just been that impact full to this team. Just hadn't been enough


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07-26-2013, 05:07 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Barrie22 View Post
Its not just hf that spouts it, up until the back to back conference finals basically all media said the same thing.

Even though he had won at world jrs, world cup, world championships, swiss elite league, spengler cup, and at the start of the 1st back to backs was an olympic gold.

He has basically won at every level he has gone except in the nhl, which always is touted as being the hardest team championship to win in the world. But apparently when it comes to saying if some one is a playoff performer or not it should be easy to win one.
He has not won at every level. Saying that he has is hyperbole. He has won in short championships. He did not win a Memorial Cup (neither did Marleau). In this regards, the Swiss League was his high point and their level of competition was not so much. What long championships at top levels do is that they match the top players against each other and different ones at that. They give time to study the opponent and adapt one's game to the specific opponent. This argument is an argument regarding flexibility in play. Being the most flexible in approach is the winning formula. It is not an argument per se against hubris on JT's part, it is an argument about approach and the interplay of what coaches do with dominant players on specific teams. Are they smart enough to push their stars to new levels? Are the stars themselves smart enough? Have the Sharks been deceiving themselves about the necessity of depth in cup runs since acquiring JT (remember their persistant third line issue)?

The standout for JT in terms of the NHL is that of the top 50 scorers in the playoffs in the past decade, he has the lowest plus/minus of all. Again, Marleau is not so good here. It is noteworthy as most high end players don't fare very well in this regard. It is one of the things that makes Lidstrom one of the all-time greats of the hockey world.

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07-26-2013, 07:18 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
He has not won at every level. Saying that he has is hyperbole. He has won in short championships. He did not win a Memorial Cup (neither did Marleau). In this regards, the Swiss League was his high point and their level of competition was not so much. What long championships at top levels do is that they match the top players against each other and different ones at that. They give time to study the opponent and adapt one's game to the specific opponent. This argument is an argument regarding flexibility in play. Being the most flexible in approach is the winning formula. It is not an argument per se against hubris on JT's part, it is an argument about approach and the interplay of what coaches do with dominant players on specific teams. Are they smart enough to push their stars to new levels? Are the stars themselves smart enough? Have the Sharks been deceiving themselves about the necessity of depth in cup runs since acquiring JT (remember their persistant third line issue)?

The standout for JT in terms of the NHL is that of the top 50 scorers in the playoffs in the past decade, he has the lowest plus/minus of all. Again, Marleau is not so good here. It is noteworthy as most high end players don't fare very well in this regard. It is one of the things that makes Lidstrom one of the all-time greats of the hockey world.
memorial cup is not something to bring up to bring a player down, considering the best player to ever play the game didn't win 1 in his time in the ohl. heck his team never even made it to the memorial cup either.

the chl is even more so about being in the right spot at the right time, the london knights were stacked for a few years in a row, all they have to show for that is 1 memorial cup win, and 1 memorial cup appearance.

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07-26-2013, 07:52 PM
  #135
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Judging a player by Memorial Cup wins is really dumb in my opinion. You can't say Thornton is a loser for not winning a junior trophy. You can't blame Marleau for not winning a Memorial Cup when he was the leading scorer on his team by a whopping 44 points (in 72 games) and managed to drag his team through 3 rounds despite hid 23 points in 15 games being 9 more than the next leading scorer as a 17 year old. The reason the Sharks picked Matt Carle over Shea Weber in the 2003 draft is due to the fact that Weber failed to win a Memorial Cup. Everyone knows what a mistake that was.

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07-26-2013, 11:11 PM
  #136
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I'm sure Seth Jones got passed over because his team lost in the memorial cup.

Will see if it burns them.

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07-26-2013, 11:15 PM
  #137
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I'm sure Seth Jones got passed over because his team lost in the memorial cup.

Will see if it burns them.
no seth jones got passed up because, the avs went with needs over best player available (and even with best player available it is still a toss up)

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07-27-2013, 01:54 AM
  #138
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Couture never won the Memorial Cup either. He sucks.

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07-27-2013, 02:17 AM
  #139
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no seth jones got passed up because, the avs went with needs over best player available (and even with best player available it is still a toss up)
They didn't need another center, they needed defense. Roy and Sakic decided that Mackinnon was the BPA and that's what they went with. I think Florida picked Barkov because they felt they needed him and I don't know what Tampa was thinking.

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07-27-2013, 02:48 AM
  #140
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I think it is important to remember that the NHL isn't the NBA. A team can't be carried by the few. Previous Shark teams relied on JT way too much. My own observations and feeling seemed to be the season in which the team didn't rely on JT as much seemed to be the season the team believed in themselves the most. This season seemed to be the biggest let down

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07-27-2013, 10:11 AM
  #141
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They didn't need another center, they needed defense. Roy and Sakic decided that Mackinnon was the BPA and that's what they went with. I think Florida picked Barkov because they felt they needed him and I don't know what Tampa was thinking.
Yep, the Avs need a high end d-man pretty badly but they believed MacKinnon was the BPA, same goes for why TB took Drouin and Florida took Barkov, both orgs believed they were taking the BPA.

I don't think Orgs put a whole lot of value on winning a Memorial Cup in a players draft year (17/18 yo) and I highly doubt that was the main reason why the Sharks didn't take Weber, his play in his draft year was a pretty big factor.


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07-27-2013, 02:00 PM
  #142
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memorial cup is not something to bring up to bring a player down, considering the best player to ever play the game didn't win 1 in his time in the ohl. heck his team never even made it to the memorial cup either.

the chl is even more so about being in the right spot at the right time, the london knights were stacked for a few years in a row, all they have to show for that is 1 memorial cup win, and 1 memorial cup appearance.
The point was that he has not won at every major level as you stated. I drew the parallels between the levels at which he has not been successful.

For others, I don't think the Mem. Cup is the be all/end all. I do think that it can be a positive indicator. I do think the teams that win the Mem. Cups tend to be perennials in the hunt. They tend to spend more, have better coaching and deeper scouting. I would not entirely dismiss players from those teams as they are doing some of the scouting and development work for the pro teams that draft their players.

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Yep, the Avs need a high end d-man pretty badly but they believed MacKinnon was the BPA, same goes for why Florida took Drouin and TB took Barkov, both orgs believed they were taking the BPA.
The Avs have not done well with drafting/developing dmen even in their dynasty years. They tend to acquire them. Like Philly and Carolina. I find it interesting that they have turned over their entire front office since their dynasty time and that this quirk still seems to be the case. In a sense, it was better that they drafted a forward where their history shows a better track record. And I agree they need a high end dman badly, but they are likely better off acquiring one of those whose reputation in play is beyond reproach (eg Blake, Bourque types).


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07-27-2013, 06:46 PM
  #143
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Yep, the Avs need a high end d-man pretty badly but they believed MacKinnon was the BPA, same goes for why Florida took Drouin and TB took Barkov, both orgs believed they were taking the BPA.

I don't think Orgs put a whole lot of value on winning a Memorial Cup in a players draft year (17/18 yo) and I highly doubt that was the main reason why the Sharks didn't take Weber, his play in his draft year was a pretty big factor.
Barkov went to Florida And drouin to tb. I get your pt thought

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07-27-2013, 06:53 PM
  #144
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Barkov went to Florida And drouin to tb. I get your pt thought
Oops...thanks, guess that's what happens when I'm in a hurry - but ya, the point still stands, teams take who they believe to be the best player available, none of them care much what the individual scouting agencies or the 'consensus' think.

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07-30-2013, 11:42 AM
  #145
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Both Marleau and Thornton are "losers" who won't make team Canada.
That's what people said in 2010, before both made the team and won.

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07-30-2013, 11:46 AM
  #146
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That's what people said in 2010, before both made the team and won.
they have been saying it about thornton since 2004-05 when he made team canada for the world cup. they said it in 2006 also, 2010, and now 2014 (little bit more sense for this one).

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08-08-2013, 07:04 PM
  #147
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SanJoseSharks 3:53pm via TweetDeck #SJSharks broadcaster and alum @Bakes_Jamie13 shares his thoughts on the odds of #Pickles making the Olympic roster. go.sjsharks.com/nLp1L

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08-15-2013, 07:15 PM
  #148
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someone bring up pattys stats in elimination games to prove me wrong that hes a big game player
I take it you mean games in which SJ was eliminated despite Marleau finally getting around to potting a few.

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08-15-2013, 11:37 PM
  #149
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I take it you mean games in which SJ was eliminated despite Marleau finally getting around to potting a few.
He scored most the goals for the sharks in wcf against Chicago I think he had to in the elimination game. Scored the winner game 7 Detroit. Although not elimination game this year he scored the it series clincher to sweep the Canucks. He scores big goals for the sharks and is often one of the few shinning when everyone else disappears

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08-16-2013, 01:00 AM
  #150
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The fact that Boyle has been invited to Camp Canada should say something about him still having skills and not "falling off a cliff" like some Sharks posters have been harping on.. But hey , what do those guys coaching Team Canada know, right?? Not every Canadian Dman gets invited. So just maybe all you so called "experts" should just chill and see how this season plays out before leaving Danny boy for dead...

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