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Carey Price, still not the best?

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Old
11-02-2006, 11:50 AM
  #51
JohnnyReb
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Originally Posted by AH View Post
Oh wait, another Leaf fan chiming in with his informed view. Price in fact does play for one of the worst CHL teams. He is the one holding them up currently in a respectable position.
Price's backup is 4-2.

Seems Tri-City might not be so bad afterall...

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11-02-2006, 11:56 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by your_rogers_bill View Post
Leland Irving is the best goalie in junior hockey, without question. He was drafted by Calgary at #26 in 2006, his numbers are breathtaking. 1.09 GAA, .955 Save%.
What tells you he'll be the best in the NHL?? How many goalies were the best in the juniors but sucked in the pro's? There's a reason why Slade wasn't drafted despite having quality numbers. Nobody has signed him yet...it's because he's small and has attitude problems, scouts don't think his success will be repeated in the pro's. Tri City seems to finally have a competitive team and Carey Price is finally having good numbers. I'd like to see his numbers if he was with a team like Everett. Don't you get it? The stats of players will always be misleading/inflated if they play for a good team....Schremp won't get 150 points in the AHL...he has troubles averaging a point per game.


Scouts saw that Price is quick and agile and has a good glove and size. They think he'll do good in the pro's if he reaches his potential and he outplayed both Huet and Abby in pre-season games, ask any habs fan.


Last edited by CH Wizard: 11-02-2006 at 12:02 PM.
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Old
11-02-2006, 11:59 AM
  #53
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I think Whitesnake nailed it... the WHL has a very long and storied history of having some statistically breathtaking seasons from those goalies blessed to be on the defensive powerhouses of the league. Some of them were legit NHL prospects, some of them weren't even drafted and never amounted to anything. So judging a goalie purely on a junior stats line is a completely wasted effort, in and of itself.

Looking at the stats lines with some acknowledgement of and allowance for the calibre of teams the goalies had in front of them definitely helps. It still doesn't tell the whole story either, however.

Ultimately, you really just need to see them playing, and be qualified to judge them purely based on their play. I haven't seen the WHL enough since probably the mid-90s or so to really feel confident in evaluating WHL players anymore. And junior-aged goalies are the hardest crop of all to try to evaluate.

But the one kernel of truth that lurks even within Leafaholix's baiting
, one that we've debated endlessly on this board amongst ourselves, is whether Price truly is such an elite prospect that he warranted using the #5 overall pick on. We've been through that so many times it has almost worn out its relevance as an issue for us, we certainly don't need an outsider to remind us of it. The feeling I've usually expressed in those debates is that I don't think Price is better (or worse) than most of the other goalies who are at the top of the current prospect heap, and names like Rask, Pogge, Pavelec, etc have featured in the heap. I think it's plenty fair to add Irving to the heap too. So given that the heap features goalies who were picked 20, 30, or more spots lower in the draft order than Price, it has always been fair game here to wonder if it was a wise use of our providential #5 choice. And the answer now, as always, is that it's too soon to know for sure. Our scouting team seems to have been delivering the goods recently, so even those doubters amongst us who question the wisdom (myself included) are often ready to cut them some slack and wait and see. Call back in 3-5 years, maybe this debate can finally be settled then.
Really? Your_Rogers_Bill=Carl O'Steen=Leafaholix? I did not know that.

Good post though. The WHL has recently had goalies with "breathtaking stats" that don't seem to translate to NHL success. By now everyone should know that there's really no point in looking at juinor stats to judge how successful a goalie will be in the NHL. (Patrick Roy 6.26 GAA in 52 games anyone?)

And your last point, as you said, has been debated endlessly amongst Hab fans. He's going to be a solid goalie, but did he deserve the no.5 spot etc...Especially when it seemed to Habs fan that we were going to go with Brule or Kopitar. But what's done is done. We've got Price in our system and we've got to hope he keeps improving and that some day he'll be a good starter on this club.

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Old
11-02-2006, 12:00 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by JohnnyReb View Post
Price's backup is 4-2.

Seems Tri-City might not be so bad afterall...
They aren't, they have almost a .700 win % Last year Tri City was brutal, anyone that saw them early last year would have seen just how bad a hockey team can be. But they made some moves and brought in some older players, ended up making the playoffs since they likely play in the weakest division in the dub. This summer they lost their top 5 scorers from last year and were looking to be ever worse then last year, but they made some smart trades to bring in a couple experienced offensive players and it seems to be paying off from the looks of it, although I haven't seen them play this year yet.

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11-02-2006, 12:05 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by JohnnyReb View Post
Price's backup is 4-2.

Seems Tri-City might not be so bad afterall...
Price's backup, Chet Pickard has been getting some great reviews and I'll believe he'll be very good as well. So what about Tri-City having 2 great goalies to bail them out once in a while????

Though they don't seem as bad as last year, they do have a total 12 forwards and d-men that came back from last year's team with the only significant additions of Yellow Horn and Scurko coming from other teams and 87' born rookie Eric Felde. While they have a couple of big towers in the back end, the D improved a little but not to a great extent. So sure, it's a better team, not really tough to be better than last year, but as much as their rank indicates??? Absolutely not and thanks to both goalies for that.

To think that Pickard will not be a 2007 draft pick but 2008, it's really scary, I belive this kid will be very good. Already has the frame, saw him on 2 occasions since last year already, read about him, and he's impressive already......

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11-02-2006, 12:19 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
They aren't, they have almost a .700 win % Last year Tri City was brutal, anyone that saw them early last year would have seen just how bad a hockey team can be. But they made some moves and brought in some older players, ended up making the playoffs since they likely play in the weakest division in the dub. This summer they lost their top 5 scorers from last year and were looking to be ever worse then last year, but they made some smart trades to bring in a couple experienced offensive players and it seems to be paying off from the looks of it, although I haven't seen them play this year yet.
I have seen them twice this year. They are much improved on offense led by Yellow Horn - a real offensive dynamo, but defense, although better, is still a problem. They were dominated by Chilliwack last night and when you consider the Bruins are an expansion team, that's not good. They brought in Valach to help on defense but they'll need more than that. The latter is huge but has a lot to learn (he was benched most of the game for poor play).

If Price played for a top team like Everett or Vancouver, no one would even think of questioning his abilities and this thread would likely not exist

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11-02-2006, 12:20 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by habfan4 View Post
Fozz, you should delete your post it's only going to get you in more trouble. You can sort this out via PM with the mod in question or with a global mod.
I did... He never replied.

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11-02-2006, 12:31 PM
  #58
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What's really difficult to identify is actual style of play and number of quality scoring chances given up by both teams... Kevin Constantine is known for his defensive, almost suffocating style of coaching. I think any decent goalie would have pretty good stats with Everett.

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11-02-2006, 12:33 PM
  #59
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go see Patrick Roy stats with the Granby Bisons (http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...pid%5B%5D=4688)

and tell me he was the best in the Q at that moment ?


In 5 years, we'll be able to say if it was a mistake.. not now. I'm confident we made a good long term pick that day

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11-02-2006, 01:06 PM
  #60
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And I stand by my characterization of the FNL as a defensive minded league.
Then you have seen much of finnish league I bet? Since I have seen most of top european leagues and finnish is closest to NHL as stylewise and it isn't really defensive style.

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11-02-2006, 05:14 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by JohnnyReb View Post
Price's backup is 4-2.

Seems Tri-City might not be so bad afterall...
That means nothing if he plays the weaker teams ,and price plays all the top teams

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11-03-2006, 06:33 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by fidette View Post
go see Patrick Roy stats with the Granby Bisons (http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...pid%5B%5D=4688)

and tell me he was the best in the Q at that moment ?


In 5 years, we'll be able to say if it was a mistake.. not now. I'm confident we made a good long term pick that day
Thank you, I was reading through this thread to see if someone had brought this up. According to the logic used by the maker of this thread, Patrick Roy would have never made it to the NHL.

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11-03-2006, 06:46 PM
  #63
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It'll be interesting to se how the goaltending situation evolves over the next few years in Boston/Toronto/Montreal

Boston- Thomas[veteran keeping the seat warm]Toivonnen [young goalie] Rash [blue chipper]
Montreal - Huet [veteran, gained status last year like Thomas]Aebi, [vetrean]/Price [blue chipper]
Toronto- Raycroft [young veteran,something to prove] Pogge [blue chipper] Aubin is irrelevant to the comparison really.

It'll be years before we can settle this one.

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Old
11-03-2006, 06:47 PM
  #64
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Worried? Absolutely not.

At 19 years of age, he was a standout at the Habs camp and was head and shoulders the best goalie in camp. Can you imagine what he'll be like at 22?

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11-03-2006, 06:58 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by your_rogers_bill View Post
Is anyone worried that Carey Price, the 5th overall pick in a great draft is still not the best or a standout goalie in junior hockey?

Leland Irving is the best goalie in junior hockey, without question. He was drafted by Calgary at #26 in 2006, his numbers are breathtaking. 1.09 GAA, .955 Save%.

Tyson Sexsmith and Dustin Slade are 1a/1b on the best team in the CHL, they're #2 and 3 in the WHL in GAA and both up there in wins.

Then you have Taylor Dakers, Dan Spence, and Matt Keetley, all up there in GAA.

Carey Price is 7th in GAA, and 6th in Save% behind James Reimer, a late pick in the 2006 draft.

Does it worry anybody that he hasn't lived up to his pre-draft and post-draft expectations? So far he has yet to distance himself from the field at any level.
Price is just a kid right now, in a league where he is probably getting bored in and wants to prove more on a higher stage (yes it does happen, they don't feel like they have anything else to prove so their intensity is off at that level).

I have confidence in the guy, i think he can be a solid goaltender, i'm not going to say a true #1, but he will be an NHL goaltender, whether he earns the right to be #1 or is just good enough to be one helluva solid back-up is all on him.

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11-03-2006, 06:59 PM
  #66
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By the way, keep praising the kid and when he doesn't live up to the unrealistic hype, don't go and whine about how he sucks or whatever.

Stick to your guns with your assumptions on him, don't turn around and be like oh he sucks whatever...when you really said he was the next future #1.

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11-03-2006, 07:03 PM
  #67
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you-rogers-bill, can you please stop making these either anti-Habs or Habs-Leafs comparison posts?

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11-03-2006, 08:13 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by your_rogers_bill View Post
Is anyone worried that Carey Price, the 5th overall pick in a great draft is still not the best or a standout goalie in junior hockey?

Leland Irving is the best goalie in junior hockey, without question. He was drafted by Calgary at #26 in 2006, his numbers are breathtaking. 1.09 GAA, .955 Save%.

Tyson Sexsmith and Dustin Slade are 1a/1b on the best team in the CHL, they're #2 and 3 in the WHL in GAA and both up there in wins.

Then you have Taylor Dakers, Dan Spence, and Matt Keetley, all up there in GAA.

Carey Price is 7th in GAA, and 6th in Save% behind James Reimer, a late pick in the 2006 draft.

Does it worry anybody that he hasn't lived up to his pre-draft and post-draft expectations? So far he has yet to distance himself from the field at any level.

Actually, I'm not worried at all. I can't wait to hear the call from Bob Cole...." Price check...Price check....highway robbery at the ACC...another Leaf forward robbed...outstanding goaltending Harry". Now do me a favour..and bite my arse.

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11-03-2006, 09:54 PM
  #69
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Montreal can find G talent like no other organization, so why do so many doubt a superb specimen like Carey price? He's got the frame of a Dryden, with the composure of a Parent, and he's 19.

We have a keeper here.

These threads are really stupid.

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Old
11-04-2006, 03:16 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Transported Upstater View Post
you-rogers-bill, can you please stop making these either anti-Habs or Habs-Leafs comparison posts?
ABOUT Carey Price:
He has all the tools to be in the Miller, Lehtonen, Ward, Luongo category...just wait and see
Price is...6'4, 215 lbs, great poise, style, great glove...his downside is that he'll end up a Kolzig. The upside is sky's the limit
Price could be with the Habs as early as next season but we have Huet & Aebischer for now who are doing a great job...

The present and the future looks bright for the HABS!!
I'm so glad I'm not a Leafs fan!! (I'd probably be as bitter as Your_Rogers_Bill...!!! ).Go Habs Go


Last edited by Mr. Hab: 11-04-2006 at 04:34 AM.
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11-04-2006, 04:21 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by V-2 Schneider View Post
Montreal can find G talent like no other organization, so why do so many doubt a superb specimen like Carey price? He's got the frame of a Dryden, with the composure of a Parent, and he's 19.

We have a keeper here.

These threads are really stupid.
Don't worry...that's what he wants (the ignorant LEaf fan who started this thread)...it's only %&^£$% Leaf fans like "Your_Rogers_Bill" who doubts Carey Price 'cause he's obviously jealous, and he comes here to try to piss us off 'cause he's a bitter, useless tool...

He's jealous (besides the 1967 factor ) 'cause he lost Rask, Boyes, and now they have Raycroft to deal with as a huuuuuuge problem ...

Don't worry...Price is awesome. He's our #1 goalie of future (as soon as next year).

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11-04-2006, 06:31 AM
  #72
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Wow.

I read about 10 pieces on Tri-Cities games and ALL of them had raving reviews about Price's performances. He's been stellar.

The WHL does have some teams that just plain lack the scoring touch. There are some teams that rely solely on pluckers. So, goalie stats are a bit inflated.

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Old
11-04-2006, 06:55 AM
  #73
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Come on he is playing on a team that is far from strong and others in this thread have made the point that often you are as strong as the team in front of you. He will be a dominant goalie at some point probably in the next 2-4 years.

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Old
11-04-2006, 07:26 AM
  #74
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After Thursday night's loss in Florida,you'd think that Leave's fan would be more worried about their own goalie's than our's.Maybe,they should try to find a goalie,who can stop the puck.Where did Florida find the goalie,they had in net?I think his name was Eddie Belfour or something,like that.Maybe the Leave's,should try and make a trade with Florida for him.

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Old
11-04-2006, 09:50 AM
  #75
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Price is...6'4, 215 lbs, great poise, style, great glove...his downside is that he'll end up a Kolzig. The upside is sky's the limit

Those are pretty strong words, especially for a young goalie. Goalies are often a toss up to whether they'll develop well, and saying his downside is comparable to a Vezina trophy goaltender is really off. If anything, I'd be happy if his upside was Olaf Kolzig. Kolzig is (or was, he's getting a bit old) a great goalie when Washington has half decent defencemen.

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