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MSG gets 10 year permit

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Old
07-26-2013, 05:08 PM
  #101
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All that land is 100% spoken for and under construction right now







The Javits Center

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07-26-2013, 05:30 PM
  #102
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Not yet. Starting in two weeks.
I'm so sorry.

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07-26-2013, 05:45 PM
  #103
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Only an idiot, or some dick trying real hard to stick to technicalities and semantics cant see the difference between an arena and a stadium

Unbelievable. But, just to help: MSG, Barclays, Prudential = Arenas

Yankee, Citi, MetLife = Stadiums.

Not hard.

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07-26-2013, 06:30 PM
  #104
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I actually looked into it (pathetic I know) and the defining difference between arenas and stadiums is size, not openness or whether the seats go all the way around the playing surface.

Redbull Arena and the original Madison Square Garden are open-air arenas. MetLife Stadium is a stadium despite having seats fully surround the playing surface.

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07-26-2013, 06:32 PM
  #105
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I'm so sorry.
I'm hearing that a lot lately

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07-26-2013, 10:40 PM
  #106
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Of all the things that are wrong in NYC, clearly, Penn Station is tops.




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07-26-2013, 11:37 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Cynical TyranT View Post
Only an idiot, or some dick trying real hard to stick to technicalities and semantics cant see the difference between an arena and a stadium

Unbelievable. But, just to help: MSG, Barclays, Prudential = Arenas

Yankee, Citi, MetLife = Stadiums.

Not hard.
Red Bull Arena ??

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07-27-2013, 08:03 AM
  #108
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The money is coming from the state of Michigan.
Regardless, they are playing in a city that is bankrupt and getting public money. I am sure there are some that are saying the state should give that money to the city, instead.

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07-27-2013, 08:17 AM
  #109
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See:



I'm kind of jealous when NBCS would show the Verizon Center, just because it puts MSG to shame aesthetics-wise. Then again, I'm sure Caps fans felt the same way when they showed our skyline.
Why are you so concerned with the aesthetics of the building?

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07-27-2013, 08:18 AM
  #110
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Penn Station is terrible and it sucks that one of the main ways into the city is cramped and unimpressive. That said, this should've been discussed before Dolan started the renovation process. If they wanted MSG to move, then they should've been more supportive of the Farley Post Office plans.
Why does Penn Station need to be "impressive"? It is a train station.

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07-27-2013, 09:20 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
Why does Penn Station need to be "impressive"? It is a train station.
Because this is New York!

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07-27-2013, 09:30 AM
  #112
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Purpose of a train station is to provide a spot for people to board and get-off trains. Spending tons of $$ on the aesthetics of the station would be a waste of money. Last thing you need is people hanging out at the station. attracting tourists who want to admire the architecture is just going to make the area more congested.

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07-27-2013, 03:37 PM
  #113
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Regardless, they are playing in a city that is bankrupt and getting public money. I am sure there are some that are saying the state should give that money to the city, instead.
The state money is part of a redevelopment plan--that's why they are going ahead with it.
Quote:
A state board on Wednesday unanimously gave the go-ahead for a new Red Wings hockey arena in downtown Detroit to be paid for in part with $284 million in tax dollars even as the broke city works through bankruptcy proceedings.
Quote:
''This is part of investing in Detroit's future,'' said Snyder, a Republican who blessed a state-appointed emergency manager's request to take the city into bankruptcy last week. ''That's the message we need to get across. ... As we stabilize the city government's finances, as we address those issues and improve services, Detroit moves from a place where people might have had a negative impression - although there are great things already going on - to being a place that will be recognized across the world as a place of great value and a place to invest.''
The State is not only giving money (a total of $650 million) to build the new arena, but create an area that will attract businesses and jobs to the downtown area. Will it work? Maybe.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/mich-bo...1527--nhl.html

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07-27-2013, 03:43 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
Why does Penn Station need to be "impressive"? It is a train station.
How about making it functional for 600,000+ commuters who come through the station every day? No one is talking about rebuilding the original station, the idea is to expand the station that's operating at over 250% capacity and getting even more busy.

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07-27-2013, 04:05 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Brooklyn Ranger View Post
How about making it functional for 600,000+ commuters who come through the station every day? No one is talking about rebuilding the original station, the idea is to expand the station that's operating at over 250% capacity and getting even more busy.
well they need to build more platforms, if they don't do that and just do a "facelift" on penn station its not worth it

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07-27-2013, 08:04 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
Why are you so concerned with the aesthetics of the building?
I don't really know. I just think that the most famous arena in the world should you know, look good. Not like a 3-year old's block sculpture.

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07-27-2013, 08:05 PM
  #117
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well they need to build more platforms, if they don't do that and just do a "facelift" on penn station its not worth it
They need to do both. Penn's sketchy. I wouldn't take my grandmother there, and I hate my grandmother with a passion. Doesn't help that a lot of the trains aren't on time. Maybe they should use the Hudson Yards (which everyone ignored my post, just saying) and build a new station over there? Do we really need more condo towers?

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07-27-2013, 08:22 PM
  #118
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I doubt it. I think they would lose a good chunk of their season ticket base, which is mostly an after-work crowd. The guy who works in the city, but lives anywhere other than Westchester is not going to want to head up there after work and then have to back to the city before going home.
Ok thanks!

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07-27-2013, 08:41 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by trueblue9441 View Post
well they need to build more platforms, if they don't do that and just do a "facelift" on penn station its not worth it
Tracks, platforms, and tunnels. Any effort to move more people in and out will require these. If the City is serious, they should begin condemning all properties encircled by 30th St, 7th Av, 34th St, and 9th ave. Buy it all and raze it so that the underground work can begin. Until someone walks up with a trillion dollars, there is no reason to move the Garden.

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Originally Posted by Kris Chreider View Post
Maybe they should use the Hudson Yards (which everyone ignored my post, just saying) and build a new station over there? Do we really need more condo towers?
In order to get under the river, the tracks and platforms MUST be deep. What you see above the street, or whatever is proposed to be built above the street will not change the fact that you need to be deeper than the bottom of the river(s) to get under them.

Pennsylvania Station had 21 tracks when it opened in 1910. It has 21 tracks now.


Cheers!
-Doug

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07-27-2013, 09:19 PM
  #120
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So if the higher power elects to say "MSG has got to go", where would they build the new one? Location wise.

Don't know any specifics of the ordeal, but humans getting to and from NYC is a bit more important than an arena. And we all know the train station needs the upgrades/renovations.

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07-27-2013, 09:24 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by NJDevilsFan44 View Post
So if the higher power elects to say "MSG has got to go", where would they build the new one? Location wise.

Don't know any specifics of the ordeal, but humans getting to and from NYC is a bit more important than an arena. And we all know the train station needs the upgrades/renovations.
Probably somewhere on the West Side.

Everyone agrees that Penn Station needs upgrades. The area of contention is whether MSG needs to move in order for meaningful upgrades to take place. Putting a shiny new hub where MSG currently sits doesn't really address by itself the real issues that commuters face. And the hub is really the only thing being talked about by the politicians. Makes you wonder.

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07-27-2013, 09:27 PM
  #122
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Probably somewhere on the West Side.

Everyone agrees that Penn Station needs upgrades. The area of contention is whether MSG needs to move in order for meaningful upgrades to take place. Putting a shiny new hub where MSG currently sits doesn't really address the real issues that commuters face.
Is there any bad feelings between the city and MSG? For example, the upgrades could work around or with MSG, but instead they decide to make the major renovations where MSG is now, just to spite them.

Sounds stupid, but that is the world we live in. Politics, money, and transportation - a volatile mix. Must be 21+ to enjoy this toxic beverage.

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07-27-2013, 09:33 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by NJDevilsFan44 View Post
Is there any bad feelings between the city and MSG? For example, the upgrades could work around or with MSG, but instead they decide to make the major renovations where MSG is now, just to spite them.

Sounds stupid, but that is the world we live in. Politics, money, and transportation - a volatile mix. Must be 21+ to enjoy this toxic beverage.
Well Jim Dolan killed the West Side Stadium deal. Beyond that, and more importantly IMO, MSG doesn't pay property taxes at their current address. Adds up to about $300m in lost revenue for the city since 1982. They got it when they threatened to move the Knicks and Rangers to Jersey in the 80's. Anyway, that could be part of the city's motivation to move MSG. But it would take the city years upon years to recoup in property-tax revenue what it'll cost them to reimburse Dolan if they evict him from the current address.

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07-27-2013, 10:01 PM
  #124
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I don't think the city loses sleep over 300M in unpaid property taxes from MSG. When you look at what the arena brings in terms of sales and payroll taxes, how many people it brings to Manhattan, how much revenue it generates for surrounding businesses, what it does for the local neighborhood, it's probably better for everyone that MSG stays.

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07-27-2013, 10:11 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Kris Chreider View Post
I don't think the city loses sleep over 300M in unpaid property taxes from MSG. When you look at what the arena brings in terms of sales and payroll taxes, how many people it brings to Manhattan, how much revenue it generates for surrounding businesses, what it does for the local neighborhood, it's probably better for everyone that MSG stays.
I doubt the City Council wants MSG V to be outside of NYC. Where I think this is all going is that in 10 years when MSG Inc applies for a permit extension, the City Council will go, "Sure, but only if you allow us to discontinue the tax break".

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