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Habs trade Philippe Lefebvre and a 7th to Florida for George Parros

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07-12-2013, 04:00 PM
  #776
PsychoticHab
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
Yes I got your point the first ten times you made it. It's not 100% sure that they are related.

I'll concede your point. But all you're doing here is hide your head in the sand. 1) I'm not sure why you're doing it. Is it because you're a huge fan of fighting in hockey ? Or just because you decided to be 100% anal about something someone said on a hockey message board. It's not yet clear to me, but I suspect the latter.

2) But the person whom I quoted initially excused it by saying they were just clinically depressed. Only thing I wanted to say is that being clinically depressed can be a symptom of brain damage from concussions. It's a common one too. So the initial person I quoted said something pretty ludicrous. 3) You can decide to be anal about my choice of words or get the bigger picture here. I did not realize I had to abide by the rules of the scientific method while posting on a message board, pardon me Mr. Bachelor's degree in psychology.
1) If you go back a few posts, you'll see I'm in favor of a reduction in fighting and doing anything possible to make them safer and not in favor of leaving fighting quite as it is right now. So if those are my only two choices I'll go with the latter but I would rather see it as looking at the facts. There is enough b******* in the world that, to me, having all the facts about something brought up is fairly important.

2) In a way SouthernHab is right, Belak and Rypien committed suicide because they were "clinically depressed". However they both had a history of depression and little doubt that fighting also played a part in the continuation of their depression. That being said, the actual act of suicide which they chose was their decision which undoubtedly had many variables involved. You cannot claim being an enforcer was even the leading cause in their death due to their medical history.

You are absolutely correct that depression is a symptom of concussion related brain damage but in both suicide cases they already had depression before their career so at best it perpetuated the cycle but was not the cause of the depression.

3) As far as the bigger picture is concerned, as long as you let emotion into the research process, the picture will remain as only one side of the argument. As for the scientific method statement, you claim to have done your own research but if it is done in a bias (emotional) way, there is no point in doing it as the results will be useless. You will only ever see one side of the picture.

As far as the anal comment goes, this started as a debate after someone claimed that CTE was solely responsible for the deaths of Boogaard, Rypien, Probert, and Belak because they were all enforcers. It was debated and we came to opposing opinions on the matter but at least can see each others points.

You do realize that our points are not that far apart, right? I'm just unwilling to limit myself to seeing only one side of the argument even if I do fall on that side but I'm also willing to be the Devil's Advocate and show that both sides have their merit and that neither side is absolutely correct.

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07-26-2013, 01:37 AM
  #777
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I do agree with the fact that the Canadiens need more intimidating players, but the current Parros isn't the answer.

Perhaps a few years ago, when he fought to fight, rather than now, fighting to not get hurt.

I do hope he regains a certain mean streak, and that this current roster of mainly non-fighters gives him a sense of purpose and duty, but I remain skeptical as to what he can bring. Reading the fighting boards, the sentiment is similar, and most likely, that feeling is shared among bruisers in our division.

Does Parros still have any fight left within him? That remains to be seen.

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07-26-2013, 02:07 AM
  #778
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Originally Posted by LLoyd Christmas I View Post
I do agree with the fact that the Canadiens need more intimidating players, but the current Parros isn't the answer.

Perhaps a few years ago, when he fought to fight, rather than now, fighting to not get hurt.

I do hope he regains a certain mean streak, and that this current roster of mainly non-fighters gives him a sense of purpose and duty, but I remain skeptical as to what he can bring. Reading the fighting boards, the sentiment is similar, and most likely, that feeling is shared among bruisers in our division.

Does Parros still have any fight left within him? That remains to be seen.
I will always be against signing unskilled goons... But now that bergy has signed one, I gotta try and see a positive. The only one I can see is that brandon prust won't have to fight the thorntons, mclarens, orrs. All parros will be useful for is 10-15 seconds of ice time in every game he plays.

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07-26-2013, 06:21 AM
  #779
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Total bust. When is the last time that a real enforcer played in a ping-pong tournament....

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07-26-2013, 06:46 AM
  #780
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I like this signing guys, I think a Parros in the lineup keeps others a little more honest...let's give him the chance to see if he can do the job...

Parros, Prust,Moen,White should all help us play with more sandpaper in the overall team game...Maxpac and Bourque are forwards who also bang and crash, and we should be a team that is a little tougher to play against...

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07-26-2013, 07:05 AM
  #781
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Originally Posted by LLoyd Christmas I View Post
I do agree with the fact that the Canadiens need more intimidating players, but the current Parros isn't the answer.

Perhaps a few years ago, when he fought to fight, rather than now, fighting to not get hurt.

I do hope he regains a certain mean streak, and that this current roster of mainly non-fighters gives him a sense of purpose and duty, but I remain skeptical as to what he can bring. Reading the fighting boards, the sentiment is similar, and most likely, that feeling is shared among bruisers in our division.

Does Parros still have any fight left within him? That remains to be seen.
You're missing the point.

The value of a guy like Parros isn't his win-loss record, it's that he keeps guys like Orr/McLaren/Thornton/Neil honest and not running around trying to injure and intimidate our skill guys.

If you look at the guys Boston have that fights, their record is not very good against the top guys but they stand up for each other and guys like Marchand don't get pummelled 3-4 times a year as a result.

If you evaluate Thornton strictly on fighting ability he is a poor enforcer, but he is in fact a good one because he fights to protect teamates and he can play a bit so he isn't a total liability. Parros is not as good a player as Thornton but he is a bigger/better fighter.

Parros' value is guys like Emelin White Prust Moen Subban can play their game not having to fear having to fight a guy like Orr or Scott.

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07-26-2013, 10:19 AM
  #782
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Originally Posted by BLONG7 View Post
I like this signing guys, I think a Parros in the lineup keeps others a little more honest...let's give him the chance to see if he can do the job...

Parros, Prust,Moen,White should all help us play with more sandpaper in the overall team game...Maxpac and Bourque are forwards who also bang and crash, and we should be a team that is a little tougher to play against...
all moen has left is the washing machine and every minor whitey takes leads to calls for him to be sent to the pressbox.
plus neither are real heavy's. Our problem is that we ONLY had middleweights. Prusty is a good middleweight guy ( and always willing) but he had to take on all comers and it wore him down by the end. I loved the prust signing but if we are sending him out to take on the scotts and orrs ofthe league, he's being woefully misused. But up until last year, he was the best option we had.

if parros has 5 fights next year that's 5 less times Prust has to go up in weight class, and than in of itself is a good thing. I'm not expecting Parros to find his inner gordie howe but as long as he takes some of the pressure off prust, I see prust being an even bigger asset and less likely to get worn down next season.

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07-26-2013, 10:27 AM
  #783
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I just think hockey games are slightly more entertaining when my team isn't getting pummeled into the ice by their fiercest rivals every week on national TV.

Parros is fighting not to get hurt? He won't be any worse than Moen.
Parros can't do much other than fight? That's fine, because we have players who can't do anything at all (Dumont, Bouillon, Drewiskie).
Parros is on the decline? At least Prust won't break his shoulder game after game.

Now, we can have White (and Moen if he wakes the F up) take on the Marchands and the other trolls and have Parros confront the bigger goons. Win-win.

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07-26-2013, 12:12 PM
  #784
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I think Parros will work out nicely. And after all, the price was definitely right.

Don't let Laraque's 'assessment' cloud your thinking.

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07-26-2013, 01:33 PM
  #785
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Time will tell if Parros does the job or not but it's definitely too early to claim that he'll do like Laraque. At the price he cost (a long shot prospect and a 7th), he's definitely worth the risk and he won't hurt against teams taking liberties against Prust and others.

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07-26-2013, 01:36 PM
  #786
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Long shot prospect is giving Lefebvre too much credit. It's pretty clear he had unflattering photos of Gauthier or was Molson's ******* son.

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07-26-2013, 03:53 PM
  #787
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Will he be as useless as Laraque was? Probably.

I guess learning from the past is not something Bergevin is interested in.

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07-26-2013, 03:57 PM
  #788
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Will he be as useless as Laraque was? Probably.

I guess learning from the past is not something Bergevin is interested in.
Well he did learned from the past....Parros didn't signed a 3-year contract....

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07-26-2013, 04:38 PM
  #789
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Will he be as useless as Laraque was? Probably.

I guess learning from the past is not something Bergevin is interested in.
As much as I agree with all your (our) other points against Bergevin, I have to disagree with you here. Seeing the Habs get pummeled under Jacques Martin is etched into my memory. I hate it, I absolutely hate it. If Parros, acquired for jack all, can somehow curb that trend I'm all for it.

Laraque's failure was all on Laraque, and as much as I abhor Gainey I can't fault the man. He figured we were getting the biggest, baddest Grizzly in the league but we ended up getting a Panda bear.

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07-26-2013, 05:39 PM
  #790
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Will he be as useless as Laraque was? Probably.

I guess learning from the past is not something Bergevin is interested in.
Jeeze why don't we fly you out to Montreal to apply for the GM job?

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07-26-2013, 05:49 PM
  #791
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
As much as I agree with all your (our) other points against Bergevin, I have to disagree with you here. Seeing the Habs get pummeled under Jacques Martin is etched into my memory. I hate it, I absolutely hate it. If Parros, acquired for jack all, can somehow curb that trend I'm all for it.

Laraque's failure was all on Laraque, and as much as I abhor Gainey I can't fault the man. He figured we were getting the biggest, baddest Grizzly in the league but we ended up getting a Panda bear.
If he is actually useful and not just a 4th line action figure I will gladly give Bergevin credit. I don't see it happening, a couple set fights doesn't make our top 9 marshmellows any better. Prust is no heavyweight and he did more for this team than Laraque ever did, we needed another one of him.

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Jeeze why don't we fly you out to Montreal to apply for the GM job?
Easy one, i'm not french enough.

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07-26-2013, 06:08 PM
  #792
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If he is actually useful and not just a 4th line action figure I will gladly give Bergevin credit. I don't see it happening, a couple set fights doesn't make our top 9 marshmellows any better. Prust is no heavyweight and he did more for this team than Laraque ever did, we needed another one.
I completely disagree, as good as prusty is we don't need another middleweight to go up in weight class to fight the heavies. We NEED a heavy. Is parros the guy? Who knows but he's shown he's willing to go with anyone. He's no kostopolous, he will win his fair share and win lose or draw, I'd rather have parros go with heavies than prust. Prust can fight and play, he can focus more on the latter and let Parrots worry more about the former. If parros " finds religion" like laraque send him to the pressbox, but I don't see this happening.

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07-26-2013, 07:11 PM
  #793
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You're missing the point.

The value of a guy like Parros isn't his win-loss record, it's that he keeps guys like Orr/McLaren/Thornton/Neil honest and not running around trying to injure and intimidate our skill guys.

If you look at the guys Boston have that fights, their record is not very good against the top guys but they stand up for each other and guys like Marchand don't get pummelled 3-4 times a year as a result.

If you evaluate Thornton strictly on fighting ability he is a poor enforcer, but he is in fact a good one because he fights to protect teamates and he can play a bit so he isn't a total liability. Parros is not as good a player as Thornton but he is a bigger/better fighter.

Parros' value is guys like Emelin White Prust Moen Subban can play their game not having to fear having to fight a guy like Orr or Scott.
Having a fighter doesn't prevent anything. It's been proven time and time again. Injuries happen to every team and PK or Emelin will absolutely wreck any Bruins or Leafs player if they have the opportunity to do so.

I'm not against having an enforcer, on the contrary, but it's more about sticking up for his teammates than preventing anything or keeping opponents honest.

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07-26-2013, 08:13 PM
  #794
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Having a fighter doesn't prevent anything. It's been proven time and time again. Injuries happen to every team and PK or Emelin will absolutely wreck any Bruins or Leafs player if they have the opportunity to do so.

I'm not against having an enforcer, on the contrary, but it's more about sticking up for his teammates than preventing anything or keeping opponents honest.
I'm sorry, where is this proof ? Fighters are not there to prevent injuries, and if you are okay with what happened against the send last year, I suspect you are in the minority.

We don't have to dress the stache every night but I would much much rather to have him and not need him than need him and not have him.

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07-26-2013, 08:58 PM
  #795
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I'm sorry, where is this proof ? Fighters are not there to prevent injuries, and if you are okay with what happened against the send last year, I suspect you are in the minority.

We don't have to dress the stache every night but I would much much rather to have him and not need him than need him and not have him.
We lost to the Sens because Eller, Emelin, Gionta, MaxPac, Prust and White were all injured. Parros would not have changed any of it.

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07-26-2013, 09:10 PM
  #796
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We lost to the Sens because Eller, Emelin, Gionta, MaxPac, Prust and White were all injured. Parros would not have changed any of it.
Year watching us get manhandled in that line brawl was just so team building. The gd sens manhandled us, the gd sens.

It might have been that parros might not have dressed that game, but he most certainly would have dressed the next.

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07-26-2013, 10:18 PM
  #797
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The Nancy's on HF hate it, therefore it must be a great move.

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07-27-2013, 12:00 AM
  #798
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Year watching us get manhandled in that line brawl was just so team building. The gd sens manhandled us, the gd sens.

It might have been that parros might not have dressed that game, but he most certainly would have dressed the next.
We got manhandled because we try to be bullies and do stupid crap. We still would have lost the series which is all that matters in the end.
Our depth was our advantage going into the PO, that disappeared when Eller went down, which would have happened regardless of Parros.

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07-27-2013, 12:06 AM
  #799
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I don't know what all the people are talking about, his fights from last season all looked fine to me. Took on Scott twice. Seemed like at least 2 draws.

As long as he takes pressure off Prust, then he's doing his job. Prust is too valuable to go above his weight class all the time. Plus we freed up a contract spot.

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07-27-2013, 02:50 AM
  #800
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Plus we freed up a contract spot.
To make place for Parros contract

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