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Young wingers to Buffalo

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Old
07-26-2013, 08:32 PM
  #51
couture23
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
Really? There aren't talented kids in the first round outside the top?

Go back and look at all those drafts. Each years, the Sabres passed up players much more impactful than the guys they got.

Now, don't get me wrong, every team does that. But, the earlier posters argument that Reiger drafts especially well is simply not true. In fact, poor drafting is probably the major factor underlying Buffalo's decline.
Not really.

We've only started our decline since 2008, since then he has drafted Myers, Ennis, Kassian, Pysyk, Armia and the most recent four since then in the first round.

Plus, hindsight is always 20/20 unfortunately.

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07-26-2013, 08:33 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
Really? There aren't talented kids in the first round outside the top?

Go back and look at all those drafts. Each years, the Sabres passed up players much more impactful than the guys they got.

Now, don't get me wrong, every team does that. But, the earlier posters argument that Reiger drafts especially well is simply not true. In fact, poor drafting is probably the major factor underlying Buffalo's decline.
Well clearly so did many other teams.

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07-26-2013, 08:34 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
Really? There aren't talented kids in the first round outside the top?

Go back and look at all those drafts. Each years, the Sabres passed up players much more impactful than the guys they got.

Now, don't get me wrong, every team does that. But, the earlier posters argument that Reiger drafts especially well is simply not true. In fact, poor drafting is probably the major factor underlying Buffalo's decline.
You could go through and find a player many teams passed on. A better measure is look and the player around where they picked. You have to score it relative to the other teams ---also taking into account where they drafted.

The islanders and oliers have been perenally in the top 10 so they should start getting talent at the NHL level from it. T

Do a little more analysis and you would see if you pick in the bottom half of the first round its very hit and miss in picking talent.

Look back at past drafts and see how many teams get functioning NHL players in the 2nd and 3rd round---not many.

this is why Detroit has had one of the best scouting in the NHL with them not having a top 5 pick in forever. I dont remember the exact analysis but they looked and said every team had a top 3 pick in the last 15 years except for Buffalo and Detroit and I think one other team.

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07-26-2013, 08:45 PM
  #54
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You could go through and find a player many teams passed on. A better measure is look and the player around where they picked. You have to score it relative to the other teams ---also taking into account where they drafted.

The islanders and oliers have been perenally in the top 10 so they should start getting talent at the NHL level from it. T

Do a little more analysis and you would see if you pick in the bottom half of the first round its very hit and miss in picking talent.

Look back at past drafts and see how many teams get functioning NHL players in the 2nd and 3rd round---not many.

this is why Detroit has had one of the best scouting in the NHL with them not having a top 5 pick in forever. I dont remember the exact analysis but they looked and said every team had a top 3 pick in the last 15 years except for Buffalo and Detroit and I think one other team.
Pretty much this. Also I think Calgary is the last team that that didn't have a top 3 pick in the last decade and a half.

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07-26-2013, 09:18 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
... Problem is that those deals only happen on chat boards. 3 for 1 deals are rarely workable ...
Are any of these deals, all completed in the last five months, a rare 3 for 1?

Clowe, Jagr, Bouwmeester, Iginla, Ryan, Bolland, Bernier

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07-26-2013, 10:11 PM
  #56
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Stay the course. William Nylander Altelius, Blake Clarke, Nick Ritchie, Sam Bennett -- depending on risers and fallers, those guys are right now players with offensive ability, puck skills, and speed who could be available when the Sabres are drafting this year. Vrana, Barbashev... this seems to be shaping up to a year for offensive wingers.

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07-26-2013, 10:56 PM
  #57
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I'd be very reluctant to move Pysyk, he's just so good! Connolly has a horrible injury past and that hamperes his Value, also there is much less risk wiht either of those prospects compared to Connolly. It's also because Tofoli has proven himself in the playoffs, although his number's weren't outstanding his performances were. Strome and Toffoli also dominated at the junior level,Connoly did not.
Connolly's injury was 3 years ago and he has shown he can stay healthy since. He didn't have a chance to dominate juniors because he missed one year with injury and when he came back the next year he scored a ton on a horrible team. He also didn't play juniors his 4th year as he was sent to the NHL cause Prince George sucked. He lit up the A this year so he's on track to be the player he was expected. I wouldn't put either Toffolli or Strome ahead of him value wise.

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07-26-2013, 11:01 PM
  #58
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Stay the course. William Nylander Altelius, Blake Clarke, Nick Ritchie, Sam Bennett -- depending on risers and fallers, those guys are right now players with offensive ability, puck skills, and speed who could be available when the Sabres are drafting this year. Vrana, Barbashev... this seems to be shaping up to a year for offensive wingers.
Agreed. There are a couple premier defenders in this upcoming draft in Ekblad and Mckeown, but after them there looks to be a glut of good looking forwards. Not to mention we could be could be talking about the giant steps guys like Compher and Bailey have made in their development at this time next year. I will say If I'm Regier I'm certainly interested if guys like Kucherov or Connolly are made available though.

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07-26-2013, 11:15 PM
  #59
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Connolly's injury was 3 years ago and he has shown he can stay healthy since. He didn't have a chance to dominate juniors because he missed one year with injury and when he came back the next year he scored a ton on a horrible team. He also didn't play juniors his 4th year as he was sent to the NHL cause Prince George sucked. He lit up the A this year so he's on track to be the player he was expected. I wouldn't put either Toffolli or Strome ahead of him value wise.
Let's not get carried away. Strome is a blue chipper and at this point his value far exceeds Connolly's. I would think most people would prefer Toffoli as well. With that said that isn't a slight to Connolly at all. He's still a fantastic prospect and a guy I'd love the sabres to pursue if he became available.

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07-26-2013, 11:20 PM
  #60
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I wonder if Winnipeg has interest in Vanek. Scheifele could be a good starting point and not that far off

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07-26-2013, 11:30 PM
  #61
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I wonder if Winnipeg has interest in Vanek. Scheifele could be a good starting point and not that far off
Yeah forget a starting point that's really far off. If you're expecting a prospect like Scheifele back in a Vanek trade your going to be disappointed big time when you see what he's actually moved for.

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07-27-2013, 07:12 AM
  #62
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Let's not get carried away. Strome is a blue chipper and at this point his value far exceeds Connolly's. I would think most people would prefer Toffoli as well. With that said that isn't a slight to Connolly at all. He's still a fantastic prospect and a guy I'd love the sabres to pursue if he became available.
If Strome was such a blue chipper why hasn't he cracked the NHL on a mediocre Islander team? I'll give you his value is higher then Connolly's but that's because he's a center who are always more valuable. Toffolli and Connolly are close to a wash at this point, both are top notch goal scorers, I just now Connolly improved his all around game this year so that's why I'd take him. Either way I don't think we want to move Connolly or Kucherov just yet and the same with buffalo and Psysk.

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07-27-2013, 07:42 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by HoseEmDown View Post
If Strome was such a blue chipper why hasn't he cracked the NHL on a mediocre Islander team? I'll give you his value is higher then Connolly's but that's because he's a center who are always more valuable. Toffolli and Connolly are close to a wash at this point, both are top notch goal scorers, I just now Connolly improved his all around game this year so that's why I'd take him. Either way I don't think we want to move Connolly or Kucherov just yet and the same with buffalo and Psysk.
Because he isn't NHL ready, it's simple, he's got all the tools, and he just needs to mature, a mediocre playoff team? The isles fans say that Strome will likely be riding shotgun with JT.That's totally understandable, they're valubale wingers with top line potential, makes sense to be reluctant about it

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07-27-2013, 09:25 AM
  #64
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I would move Jensen++ for Vanek if salary were retained, but a lot of other factors would have to go right, as I'd only do that if we were fairly sure we could re-sign him. If the cap goes up, the Sedins take a discount, and Vanek is willing to sacrifice cap hit for term, then it might be possible.

Something like Jensen + 1st + Booth(salary reasons)

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07-27-2013, 10:27 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by HoseEmDown View Post
If Strome was such a blue chipper why hasn't he cracked the NHL on a mediocre Islander team? I'll give you his value is higher then Connolly's but that's because he's a center who are always more valuable. Toffolli and Connolly are close to a wash at this point, both are top notch goal scorers, I just tnow Connolly improved his all around game this year so that's why I'd take him. Either way I don't think we want to move Connolly or Kucherov just yet and the same with buffalo and Psysk.
Because the isles wanted Strome to work on his defense and hit the gym.

According to scouting reports from analysts like Pronman, that is just what Strome's been doing. He has improved defensively, is more willing to go into corners to fight for loose pucks. The press says he has been part of Tavares offseason workout crew, at the Dungeon, since before being drafted.

I am pretty excited to see his chemistry with Moulson and Tavares. Before Moulson's marriage, Moulson was one of Strome/Tavares offseason workout buds.

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07-27-2013, 11:22 AM
  #66
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Not really.

We've only started our decline since 2008, since then he has drafted Myers, Ennis, Kassian, Pysyk, Armia and the most recent four since then in the first round.

Plus, hindsight is always 20/20 unfortunately.
The scuttlebutt among Sabre fans is that Darcy Reiger never loses trades. Now, you are all assuring me that he is also a stud at the draft table. Yet, Buffalo finished near the bottom of the league last year and hasn't won jack on Reiger's watch.

Something does add up here. If Reiger managed assets nearly as well as you guys suggest, buffalo would be a top tier team, instead of a franchise that had descended from mediocrity to one of the league's worst.

Reiger is not Milbury or Esposito. But, he also is not one of the league's better gms.

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07-27-2013, 11:33 AM
  #67
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Because the isles wanted Strome to work on his defense and hit the gym.

According to scouting reports from analysts like Pronman, that is just what Strome's been doing. He has improved defensively, is more willing to go into corners to fight for loose pucks. The press says he has been part of Tavares offseason workout crew, at the Dungeon, since before being drafted.

I am pretty excited to see his chemistry with Moulson and Tavares. Before Moulson's marriage, Moulson was one of Strome/Tavares offseason workout buds.
Tampa wanted Connolly to develop in the A which he did so you can say that his value is just as high. He has added lots of weight since his draft year and has stayed healthy too. To me it's all in what type of player you want, Strome is a playmaker while Connolly is a sniper.

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07-27-2013, 11:41 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
Something does add up here. If Reiger managed assets nearly as well as you guys suggest, buffalo would be a top tier team, instead of a franchise that had descended from mediocrity to one of the league's worst.
Confusing, right? It's almost like other factors may have helped contribute to it.

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07-27-2013, 11:45 AM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury View Post
The scuttlebutt among Sabre fans is that Darcy Reiger never loses trades. Now, you are all assuring me that he is also a stud at the draft table. Yet, Buffalo finished near the bottom of the league last year and hasn't won jack on Reiger's watch.

Something does add up here. If Reiger managed assets nearly as well as you guys suggest, buffalo would be a top tier team, instead of a franchise that had descended from mediocrity to one of the league's worst.

Reiger is not Milbury or Esposito. But, he also is not one of the league's better gms.
He's got his flaws, that's for sure -- he overvalues his players to a degree that is simply confounding to change for one thing. He's done that for almost his entire tenure too. His issue has been roster formation -- he's good at letting good scouts work (early and late... not so much in the middle of his reign) and he does maximize value when he makes trades. But he'll leave holes in his roster to fester for years, expecting someone to "play out of character" regularly to cover for his lack of action(s).

From here, it appears his overly-patient approach has left what little goaltending market there was bereft of any fit for Miller and the idiot spending of free agency coupled with his stated desire to not take back bad salary in return for Vanek with no move there either. And for about the fifth year in a row, the team needs a defensive-oriented center to allow for better lineup balance.... with none forthcoming, even in cheaper end UFA types (Moore).

That said, he was saddled with an ownership group who simply wanted to squeek into the playoffs in the Golisano/Quinn era. As such, he held onto pending UFA's through the season and into any limited playoff action simply to drive gate revenue. That resource leak as well as three poor drafting years from '05-07 as they transitioned out old guard scouts under mandate from the owners to slash costs have a lot to do with where they are today.

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07-27-2013, 11:50 AM
  #70
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I would move Jensen++ for Vanek if salary were retained, but a lot of other factors would have to go right, as I'd only do that if we were fairly sure we could re-sign him. If the cap goes up, the Sedins take a discount, and Vanek is willing to sacrifice cap hit for term, then it might be possible.

Something like Jensen + 1st + Booth(salary reasons)
That's a pretty good/fair offer especially to start at

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07-27-2013, 11:56 AM
  #71
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Confusing, right? It's almost like other factors may have helped contribute to it.
Such as.......

What terrible factors led to a decade of mediocrity and a decline to one of the leagues worst teams?

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07-27-2013, 12:14 PM
  #72
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Such as.......

What terrible factors led to a decade of mediocrity and a decline to one of the leagues worst teams?
Speaking of the leagues worst teams of the last decade...

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07-27-2013, 12:16 PM
  #73
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Im of the opinion the Sabres dont need to make any trades for young wingers right now. Just wait for next year as transition year to see what we have. In all likelihood one of our centers ends up on the wing anyways, and we can always add a piece like that later on.

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07-27-2013, 12:36 PM
  #74
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Speaking of the leagues worst teams of the last decade...
Yeah, and that is real relevant to the discussion.

There are certainly lots of teams that have been more poorly managed over the years then Buffalo: Isles, Oil, Leafs, etc.

That doesn't change Regier into the genius you guys make him out to be.

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07-27-2013, 12:45 PM
  #75
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Yeah, and that is real relevant to the discussion.

There are certainly lots of teams that have been more poorly managed over the years then Buffalo: Isles, Oil, Leafs, etc.

That doesn't change Regier into the genius you guys make him out to be.
Oh I agree, and I'm no fan of Regier. It just seems like you're dead set on telling people how bad the Sabres are, when most of us are happy to be rebuilding at this point. It's year's overdue.

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