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The Michael McCarron Thread - Part II : Bigger, Stronger and Meaner

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07-27-2013, 08:44 PM
  #451
Mathletic
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Originally Posted by DekeLikeYouMeanIt View Post
You do realize he played in Swedish U20....? It was no where as good as it is now. Where were you when that was the biggest question of the draft and the reason he slid?
Kopitar was a young 17 year old rookie in that league that year. His case is more comparable to a 16 year old player in his rookie season following the U18 league. Only player before him to score at that rate as a 16 year old was Daniel Sedin.

Btw, I was in favor of drafting Kopitar that year. People knocked him for some poor showing in a tournament he had. I told people at that time no to base their judgement on that tournament as it's definately not the best indicator of what a player really is.

I also defended the Carey Price selection, though selected high, CP showed he had n'1 potential and I wasn't a fan of Théodore back then. Thought it was the best time to trade him while his value was still high. Wasn't in favor of picking Brulé and wanted either one of Ryan or Kopitar when people wanted no part of them. They were thought as floaters and one-dimensional players ... a la Anthony Mantha ...


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07-27-2013, 09:06 PM
  #452
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Originally Posted by Mathletic View Post
Kopitar was a young 17 year old rookie in that league that year. His case is more comparable to a 16 year old player in his rookie season following the U18 league. Only player before him to score at that rate as a 16 year old was Daniel Sedin.

Btw, I was in favor of drafting Kopitar that year.
This isn't about you and what you defend. This is about the players he quoted. Most of these were drafted to be stars/very high picks. Kopitar's quality of competition was slightly lower than the USHL today. And he was 17-18 when he ripped the junior league so I don't know how the Sedin comment affects this. It's not unusual for good draft-year players to be good in U20 Sweden.

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07-27-2013, 09:11 PM
  #453
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Originally Posted by DekeLikeYouMeanIt View Post
This isn't about you and what you defend. This is about the players he quoted. Most of these were drafted to be stars/very high picks. Kopitar's quality of competition was slightly lower than the USHL today. And he was 17-18 when he ripped the junior league so I don't know how the Sedin comment affects this. It's not unusual for good draft-year players to be good in U20 Sweden.
Well, you asked me where I was when he slid. I said I liked him and would have taken him at #5. Kopitar was a young 17 year old. Being a rookie in the U20 he was more comparable to a 16 year old player born in January. Sure some unknown players lit up the U20 in Sweden but not many did it at 16. Granted Kopitar was actually 17 his profile is more similar to a 16 year old player. Like I mentionned about Hurley earlier. Hurley is more comparable to McCarron last year than this year's McCarron.

Even though the U20 in Sweden isn't the CHL, it's still fairly close to the USHL (even back then). Kopitar lit up the league accordingly. McCarron did not. At this point, I consider McCarron a project for that reason. Comparables for McCarron would be players like Lucic, and a host of other players who actually did not develop to become the scoring type. Not players like Staal, Nash, Spezza and so on were all great offensive players already.

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07-27-2013, 09:17 PM
  #454
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Granted Kopitar was actually 17 his profile is more similar to a 16 year old player.
That doesn't make sense. You mean cause he played in Slovenia before? That still doesn't change that he was older and more physically developed.

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Comparables for McCarron would be players like Lucic, and a host of other players who actually did not develop to become the scoring type. Not players like Staal, Nash, Spezza and so on were all great offensive players already.
Finally we agree on one thing!

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07-28-2013, 02:38 AM
  #455
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I'm not saying he'll be in the lineup next year, but I'm also not dismissing it. In the salary cap world and with UFA starting in a player's mid 20's, the sooner a drafted player is ready for NHL duty, the better it is for the NHL team. ELC contracts allow teams to have more cap flexibility. I'm sure Bergevin will ponder the possibility of replacing Gionta with McCarron next season (or someone else such as Moen if Gio is already gone), and having an extra $4 million or so to use towards plugging another hole. The forward unit would almost gain a foot in height in one move.
Finally a credible source who says something I have been droning on about the last three months: The NHL is getting younger, and top picks must contribute very quickly.

I never said that I liked it. Or that there are not important exceptions. But it is a reality.

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07-28-2013, 05:44 AM
  #456
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Originally Posted by DekeLikeYouMeanIt View Post
That doesn't make sense. You mean cause he played in Slovenia before? That still doesn't change that he was older and more physically developed.
It's not just about being physically ready. Takes some time to get used to a new league, new players, etc. Anyways say you don't buy that theory, he's still the only rookie to score at that rate as a 17 year old rookie in the U20 league.

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07-29-2013, 10:42 AM
  #457
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Isn't Jonathan Chainberg Brandon Prust's fitness cosch?
Here are the athletes that train under him:

http://www.adrenalineperformancecent...stimonials.php

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07-29-2013, 11:03 AM
  #458
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I'm not going to claim to have a btter read on McCarron than Grant, but I'd be shocked if McCarron played for the habs this year. Physically his body is close to being ready, but we are talking a MAJOR leap in competition from USHL to the NHL. Has anyone ever made that leap as an 18 year old before?

Also, guys like Lucic would be licking their chops to tune McCarron up.

I'd love to see him dominate in Junior though I think it's more likely McCarron has a long route to the NHL. 2 years in junior, and 2 years in the AHL. That would be my guess for a timeline.

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07-29-2013, 11:42 AM
  #459
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but I'd be shocked if McCarron played for the habs this year
I don't even understand how someone could possibly think theres a chance for him to play in the NHL this year ...

Give him 2 years with the Hunter bros, it'll do wonder.

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07-29-2013, 12:13 PM
  #460
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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
I'm not going to claim to have a btter read on McCarron than Grant, but I'd be shocked if McCarron played for the habs this year. Physically his body is close to being ready, but we are talking a MAJOR leap in competition from USHL to the NHL. Has anyone ever made that leap as an 18 year old before?

Also, guys like Lucic would be licking their chops to tune McCarron up.

I'd love to see him dominate in Junior though I think it's more likely McCarron has a long route to the NHL. 2 years in junior, and 2 years in the AHL. That would be my guess for a timeline.
I never said I thought McCarron would play in the NHL this year..I'm not expecting that at all. He's big enough to play in the NHL right now..doesn't mean he's ready. I think he'll need at least a year in London.

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07-29-2013, 12:21 PM
  #461
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Who in this reality thinks McCarron will play in the NHL this year? Aren't everybody happy that he goes in London and plays in the Mem Cup to then make him play here in Montreal? Do not understand.....

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07-29-2013, 01:16 PM
  #462
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Who in this reality thinks McCarron will play in the NHL this year? Aren't everybody happy that he goes in London and plays in the Mem Cup to then make him play here in Montreal? Do not understand.....
Some people must think that the 'sooner the better', backfired with Latendresse, nearly backfired with Price, we got lucky with Subban... he might be physically ready for the NHL, but I think everything else needs work. I want him to develop into a top 6 FWD, will take some time with him, I don't want him to become another Chad Kilger...

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07-29-2013, 01:26 PM
  #463
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Who in this reality thinks McCarron will play in the NHL this year? Aren't everybody happy that he goes in London and plays in the Mem Cup to then make him play here in Montreal? Do not understand.....
I've been saying it for a while McCarron is a 2-3 year project by the time he turns 20 we should have a better understanding if he can translate his game to the NHL.

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07-29-2013, 03:15 PM
  #464
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Who in this reality thinks McCarron will play in the NHL this year? Aren't everybody happy that he goes in London and plays in the Mem Cup to then make him play here in Montreal? Do not understand.....
As a Habs fan and long time Knights season tic holder ( pre Hunters) YES we're happy he's going to London for a year . I'm not putting "huge"expectations on him but expect bout a PPG or just under if all goes well AND he plays top 6 with some PP time. Anything more ill consider a bonus. It'll be an adjustment for sure but he's not expected to carry the load on this team. 4 other 1st rd picks ( all higher than him) a couple 2nd rds, any a few later than that. He play with talent, learn to play a pro style and develop.

In no way is he ready for the show, now. 1-3 yrs if all goes according to Hoyle well reap the benefits in Habs town. If not, I still think it was a chance that they should have taken. He's been moving up the charts quickly in scouts eyes, fills a need, we had a couple 2nds ect....

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07-29-2013, 03:21 PM
  #465
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Some people must think that the 'sooner the better', backfired with Latendresse, nearly backfired with Price, we got lucky with Subban... he might be physically ready for the NHL, but I think everything else needs work. I want him to develop into a top 6 FWD, will take some time with him, I don't want him to become another Chad Kilger...
Subban came in the NHL full-time officially in 2010-2011. It was the first time he started a season as a regular in the NHL. He was drafted in 2007. He just turned 22 at the time. I don't call it "rushing" a prospect. He had plenty of time to develop. Truth is, he was simply too good for the AHL.

In fact, Subban's probably the prospect whose developement was managed the best for the Habs in the last 20 years.

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07-29-2013, 03:59 PM
  #466
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Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
Subban came in the NHL full-time officially in 2010-2011. It was the first time he started a season as a regular in the NHL. He was drafted in 2007. He just turned 22 at the time. I don't call it "rushing" a prospect. He had plenty of time to develop. Truth is, he was simply too good for the AHL.

In fact, Subban's probably the prospect whose developement was managed the best for the Habs in the last 20 years.
I agree about Subban, wasn't sure how old he was.

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07-29-2013, 05:00 PM
  #467
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I never said I thought McCarron would play in the NHL this year..I'm not expecting that at all. He's big enough to play in the NHL right now..doesn't mean he's ready. I think he'll need at least a year in London.
Wow. I'd be shocked if he only needed a year. Doesn't look like a player I'd like to rush. Seems like a player that will need time to grow into his body.

You'd have to think at least a year in Hamilton. Sure we need size but not enough to give him the Lats treatment and chop his ceiling in half.

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07-29-2013, 07:18 PM
  #468
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I agree that it would be harmful to McCarron's development to bring him up prematurely, not to mention that he wouldn't be of much help to the Habs this season or next.

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07-29-2013, 08:43 PM
  #469
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I agree that it would be harmful to McCarron's development to bring him up prematurely, not to mention that he wouldn't be of much help to the Habs this season or next.
Players develop at different rates. We don't know how ready he's going to be one year from now.

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07-29-2013, 08:43 PM
  #470
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Wow. I'd be shocked if he only needed a year. Doesn't look like a player I'd like to rush. Seems like a player that will need time to grow into his body.

You'd have to think at least a year in Hamilton. Sure we need size but not enough to give him the Lats treatment and chop his ceiling in half.
Seems like a player who will need to grow into his body? The kid weights 240 pounds...and it ain't fat! He's done plenty of "growing into his body" already..believe me. If Tom Wilson is ready 9 months after his draft, wouldn't shock me if McCarron is ready after 15 months..we shall see. Certainly he won't be sent back next season because he won't be ready physically...the kid is an oak tree.

Let's not make predictions on next year until he plays THIS season....all I said was he'd need at least a year in London, I'm not about to predict one way or another what will happen next season. It all depends on what he does this year. If he scores 70+ points and dominates the OHL physically...there's a good chance he's pushing for a spot next year on a roster that badly needs his type of presence. If he has trouble adapting to the OHL and gets beat up a few times, he'll be back for a second season with the Hunters.

Hunter and Murray didn't discount him being ready next season. As mentioned before....it's very appealing for NHL clubs to have roster spots taken by ELC contracts thanks to the salary cap. If he's ready next season, he'll stick. They won't send him back because they're afraid someone might beat him up. He's not being groomed as a goon anyway.

No comparison to Lats - unlike Lats he's tough and can skate...and most importantly he's not French. He'll never feel the pressure a 19-year-old Lats did as the next French hope..the crowd chanting "Gui, Gui, Gui".....understandably it went to his head.

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07-29-2013, 11:09 PM
  #471
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Seems like a player who will need to grow into his body? The kid weights 240 pounds...and it ain't fat! He's done plenty of "growing into his body" already..believe me. If Tom Wilson is ready 9 months after his draft, wouldn't shock me if McCarron is ready after 15 months..we shall see. Certainly he won't be sent back next season because he won't be ready physically...the kid is an oak tree.

Let's not make predictions on next year until he plays THIS season....all I said was he'd need at least a year in London, I'm not about to predict one way or another what will happen next season. It all depends on what he does this year. If he scores 70+ points and dominates the OHL physically...there's a good chance he's pushing for a spot next year on a roster that badly needs his type of presence. If he has trouble adapting to the OHL and gets beat up a few times, he'll be back for a second season with the Hunters.

Hunter and Murray didn't discount him being ready next season. As mentioned before....it's very appealing for NHL clubs to have roster spots taken by ELC contracts thanks to the salary cap. If he's ready next season, he'll stick. They won't send him back because they're afraid someone might beat him up. He's not being groomed as a goon anyway.

No comparison to Lats - unlike Lats he's tough and can skate...and most importantly he's not French. He'll never feel the pressure a 19-year-old Lats did as the next French hope..the crowd chanting "Gui, Gui, Gui".....understandably it went to his head.
Sorry, I always thought the 'grow in to your body' comment was directed towards younger, bigger players who needed to be more at home in their big frame. I didn't mean he wasn't big enough, hahaha.

I guess if he's ready then he's ready. I've just had my mind set on him being a 'bit' of a project so the idea of him even possibly being ready by '14-15 kind of threw me for a loop.

I don't even know what to expect from him in his first year of junior. Assuming he'll struggle at first then pick it up. Not worried if his stats aren't that great, as long as there's progression.

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07-30-2013, 10:02 AM
  #472
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You guys think he's a lot for the 2014 WJC? Would be great for his development and wouldn't mind rooting for the Americans again !

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07-30-2013, 10:50 AM
  #473
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You guys think he's a lot for the 2014 WJC? Would be great for his development and wouldn't mind rooting for the Americans again !
I wouldn't say a lock, but he'll make it either this year or if not then he should make it next year i would wager.

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07-30-2013, 11:10 AM
  #474
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McCarron has a similar frame/build as Happy Gilmore's friend that intimidates Shooter McGavin.

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07-30-2013, 11:35 AM
  #475
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Some people must think that the 'sooner the better', backfired with Latendresse, nearly backfired with Price, we got lucky with Subban... he might be physically ready for the NHL, but I think everything else needs work. I want him to develop into a top 6 FWD, will take some time with him, I don't want him to become another Chad Kilger...
Yes, it didn't work out to our liking in Latendresse's case... but it did with Galchenyuk. A case can be made that Price's career has slowed because he was fast-tracked, but Patrice Bergeron has thrived though he entered the league at 18 y/o.

The truth of the matter is that a strong argument can be made on both sides. McCarron will most probably play in London next season, but that is not to say that it would be stupid if he doesn't. If he earns a spot in MTL, that's where he'll play.

My favorite quote from Bergevin last pre-season was when he was asked if Galchenyuk would be on the opening day roster for the Habs. He simply replied, "Alex will decide where Alex plays."

With his effort, intelligence and growth, Michael will decide where Michael plays next year.

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