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Dave Nonis early criticism..

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Old
07-28-2013, 11:47 AM
  #1
Anth93
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Dave Nonis early criticism..

Let's discuss an obvious issue,

The Leafs currently have $6.1 million in cap space. Let's make the assumption that Trevor Smith isn't on the roster and Joe Colborne is our 3rd line winger (I know it's unlikely, but he's cheap). Now that leaves $6.7 million.

Kadri, Franson and Fraser are all RFA's. $6.7 million to sign these three.

Fraser is asking for $2.0 in arb, the Leafs counter with $.855. Usually they meet halfway so let's assume that Fraser gets $1.427.

Kadri and Franson left. $5.293 million to get them signed. That's $2.64 million A PIECE.

Now ask yourself, how do you feel that our general manager/front office put a larger emphasis on our 6th and 7th best forwards (Bozak/Clarkson), than our 2nd highest scoring forward and highest scoring defenseman. Now lots of people seem to think that the Leafs decided Franson was in over his head and it's a great time to sell high on him, even if that's the case.. We didn't give ourselves the opportunity to sign him.

if one of McLaren/Orr don't get resigned and Bozak walks.. We could have signed these guys without any hesitation. Am I the only one who thinks he's watching our front office piss away cap space right before our eyes? What a terrible display of cap management by the Maple Leafs.

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07-28-2013, 11:49 AM
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Leafidelity
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You always sign UFAs before RFAs.

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07-28-2013, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iPunch View Post
You always sign UFAs before RFAs.
/thread

I don't see the big deal.

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07-28-2013, 11:51 AM
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Anth93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iPunch View Post
You always sign UFAs before RFAs.
You don't sign unnecessary contracts that hinder your chances at locking up core pieces. It's crazy/ridiculous and everyone knows it.

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07-28-2013, 11:53 AM
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its definitely tight, but i think the approach is that with brennan, ranger, rielly, granberg, blacker and holzer we are deep enough to absorb any shocks to the payroll than we would be at F

guess we have to wait to see how the plan plays out before judging it

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07-28-2013, 11:54 AM
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Yeah, it could've been handled better.

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07-28-2013, 11:54 AM
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And then you waive Liles, because Gardiner is fully NHL-ready and you don't need three puck moving d-men in a tough stay-at-home system, and if another team grabs him you have over $10 million.

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07-28-2013, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anth93 View Post
You don't sign unnecessary contracts that hinder your chances at locking up core pieces. It's crazy/ridiculous and everyone knows it.
If the Leafs want to keep Kadri and Franson they will keep them

They will make moves to free up space if it's needed

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07-28-2013, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iPunch View Post
You always sign UFAs before RFAs.
As has been stated many times before in other threads - Your best players should be the priority. You start by planning for how much you want to get them signed for and then you work backwards, allowing for a little bit of wiggle room if need be. It's budgeting 101.

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07-28-2013, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anth93 View Post
You don't sign unnecessary contracts that hinder your chances at locking up core pieces. It's crazy/ridiculous and everyone knows it.
What is your reasoning to how it is hindered? They are RFa's. They're not going anywhere. Cap room will be made if needed.

You still need to ice a full team. Doesn't matter the chronological order of the signings, the net result is still the same in the end.

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07-28-2013, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by LeafsFIO View Post
And then you waive Liles, because Gardiner is fully NHL-ready and you don't need three puck moving d-men in a tough stay-at-home system, and if another team grabs him you have over $10 million.
NHL teams won't do us a favor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dubey View Post
If the Leafs want to keep Kadri and Franson they will keep them
I'm sure that was really hard for you to say.. The idea that NHL teams can just do whatever they want with RFA's is a false narrative. This is a perfect example. We're about to lose a great dman.

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07-28-2013, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dubey View Post
If the Leafs want to keep Kadri and Franson they will keep them

They will make moves to free up space if it's needed
This is the equivalent of buying a new car, realizing that you don't have the money to afford a new house so you sell the wedding ring to a pawn shop.

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07-28-2013, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anth93 View Post
Let's discuss an obvious issue,

The Leafs currently have $6.1 million in cap space. Let's make the assumption that Trevor Smith isn't on the roster and Joe Colborne is our 3rd line winger (I know it's unlikely, but he's cheap). Now that leaves $6.7 million.

Kadri, Franson and Fraser are all RFA's. $6.7 million to sign these three.

Fraser is asking for $2.0 in arb, the Leafs counter with $.855. Usually they meet halfway so let's assume that Fraser gets $1.427.

Kadri and Franson left. $5.293 million to get them signed. That's $2.64 million A PIECE.

Now ask yourself, how do you feel that our general manager/front office put a larger emphasis on our 6th and 7th best forwards (Bozak/Clarkson), than our 2nd highest scoring forward and highest scoring defenseman. Now lots of people seem to think that the Leafs decided Franson was in over his head and it's a great time to sell high on him, even if that's the case.. We didn't give ourselves the opportunity to sign him.

if one of McLaren/Orr don't get resigned and Bozak walks.. We could have signed these guys without any hesitation. Am I the only one who thinks he's watching our front office piss away cap space right before our eyes? What a terrible display of cap management by the Maple Leafs.
your one of the many who are worrying about this before it even becomes
an issue. We can be 10% over the cap until the start of the season.
Too early for the sky is falling posters to be trying to stir up the hornets nest.

Come back and rethink this issue when those two are signed or traded and we are really up against the cap with no other options.. There are always options

buy out liles(2nd buyout period as he was on our trade deadline roster) would save us 2.4M so add that to the 5.2 that you say we have, and that gives us 8M to sign kadri and franson. If either one is asking for over 4M then thats something no
manager could be faulted for.

IMHO this is not even and issue worth discussing until all ramifications are in

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07-28-2013, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Legend View Post
As has been stated many times before in other threads - Your best players should be the priority. You start by planning for how much you want to get them signed for and then you work backwards, allowing for a little bit of wiggle room if need be. It's budgeting 101.
Well said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Havoc View Post
What is your reasoning to how it is hindered? They are RFa's. They're not going anywhere. Cap room will be made if needed.

You still need to ice a full team. Doesn't matter the chronological order of the signings, the net result is still the same in the end.
How do we make cap room? Trade Kulemin? Obviously Liles would have been traded months ago if it were at all possible.

It doesn't matter if they're RFA's or UFA's. They're two of our best players and we're playing with fire at the expense of Frazer McLaren and Tyler Bozak.

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07-28-2013, 12:03 PM
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Ok, so were overvaluing Franson now because he might be gone? I have a hard time keeping up with whose amazing and whose terrible. Phil Kessel? we're gonna overpay that bum! What a **** hockey player! Phaneuf shouldn't even be in the league!! Waive the bum. Wait, CODY "JESUS" FRANSON MIGHT BE GONE?? OMG HE'S NORRIS MATERIAL! He led the our D in scoring amongst the likes of Mike Kostka, Korbinian Holzer, Mark Fraser, Carl Gunnarson and Ryan O'Byrne, all offensive juggarnauts! And we're gonna trade him?!?! Woe is me! Tank the season!

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07-28-2013, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anth93 View Post
NHL teams won't do us a favor.

I'm sure that was really hard for you to say.. The idea that NHL teams can just do whatever they want with RFA's is a false narrative. This is a perfect example. We're about to lose a great dman.
In the event Franson is traded, it would be a reasonable assumption that the two sides were never going to agree to a deal anyways. Moreover, it would also mean Franson is asking for 4+ mil.

A Jets cornerstone in Wheeler got signed today and was all headed to go to arbitration. Does it really matter that it took until the end of July? Or are you only worried because of our cap situation?

If Franson was a UFA then I could see the need to be angry because he would be long gone by now.

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07-28-2013, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anth93 View Post
NHL teams won't do us a favor.

I'm sure that was really hard for you to say.. The idea that NHL teams can just do whatever they want with RFA's is a false narrative. This is a perfect example. We're about to lose a great dman.
I for one cannot understand how one playoff series has made Franson all of a sudden a GREAT dman. For the whole season he played sheltered minutes. Put him as a #1/2 dman and watch his slow skating be exposed.

He is what he is - a decent 3/4 dman who is good on the power play because he has a good shot. Thats it. Nothing great about him at all. just a decent dman.

Great dman - talk about over rating -

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07-28-2013, 12:04 PM
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Anth93
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Originally Posted by lLeafer View Post
Ok, so were overvaluing Franson now because he might be gone? I have a hard time keeping up with whose amazing and whose terrible. Phil Kessel? we're gonna overpay that bum! What a **** hockey player! Phaneuf shouldn't even be in the league!! Waive the bum. Wait, CODY "JESUS" FRANSON MIGHT BE GONE?? OMG HE'S NORRIS MATERIAL! He led the our D in scoring amongst the likes of Mike Kostka, Korbinian Holzer, Mark Fraser, Carl Gunnarson and Ryan O'Byrne, all offensive juggarnauts! And we're gonna trade him?!?! Woe is me! Tank the season!
Well that's just silly and full of hyperbole. I'd sign Kessel to an 8 million dollar cap hit YESTERDAY. Phaneuf will walk because we simply can't afford him.

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07-28-2013, 12:06 PM
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Well said.

How do we make cap room? Trade Kulemin? Obviously Liles would have been traded months ago if it were at all possible.

It doesn't matter if they're RFA's or UFA's. They're two of our best players and we're playing with fire at the expense of Frazer McLaren and Tyler Bozak.
Why even mention McLaren who can be demoted with no cap penalty? It just shows how foolish your argument actually is.

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07-28-2013, 12:07 PM
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Anth93
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Originally Posted by notdoneyet View Post
I for one cannot understand how one playoff series has made Franson all of a sudden a GREAT dman. For the whole season he played sheltered minutes. Put him as a #1/2 dman and watch his slow skating be exposed.

He is what he is - a decent 3/4 dman who is good on the power play because he has a good shot. Thats it. Nothing great about him at all. just a decent dman.

Great dman - talk about over rating -
He is a great dman. His minutes/effectiveness/role was on a steady rise from January to May.

It doesn't matter if you don't think he's going to be better than he is, that's not the point. The point is we have absolutely no chance to sign the guy given our current cap problems. As a young RFA who just played as well as Franson did last year, the priority should always be to sign the guy.

If Franson simply doesn't want to play here or is actually asking for 4+ million.. Then yes I'll eat my words, but there's absolutely no reason to suggest either.

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07-28-2013, 12:07 PM
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Leafidelity
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Originally Posted by Anth93 View Post
You don't sign unnecessary contracts that hinder your chances at locking up core pieces. It's crazy/ridiculous and everyone knows it.
I guess I don't consider Franson a core piece. Clarkson brings something that nobody else on the roster can. Franson is good, but replaceable by depth. I have no problem giving Franson's assignments to the guy in your avatar.

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07-28-2013, 12:07 PM
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Anth93
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Originally Posted by EazyB97 View Post
Why even mention McLaren who can be demoted with no cap penalty? It just shows how foolish your argument actually is.
Randy Carlyle is our coach, give me a break.

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07-28-2013, 12:10 PM
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What needs to happen in order for us to be eligible for the 2nd buyout period? More than 1 salary arbitration hearing?

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07-28-2013, 12:12 PM
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i'm not going to criticize Nonis yet. as long as he figures out a way to sign Kadri and Franson, then i'm happy with all the move's he's made so far. If he can't sign them both, then i'll be

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07-28-2013, 12:15 PM
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notdoneyet
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Well that's just silly and full of hyperbole. I'd sign Kessel to an 8 million dollar cap hit YESTERDAY. Phaneuf will walk because we simply can't afford him.



This shat pile just keeps getting bigger and bigger.

do you ever have anything good to say about the leafs other than criticize every move that is made and also always trying to make something out of nothing.

First of all we are going to lose a GREAT dman in franson and now we cant afford to sign dion. I didnt know that you were in on all the discussions that nonis and agents have but feel free to enlighten us to all the negotiations. of course to make a statement like we cant afford phaneuf then you must be seated beside nonis and know what his future plans are for the team. please enlighten us.

you keep spewing these ridiculous theories but you have no support to go with these
chicken little statements.

So in order for you to know we are losing dion again please tell us what dions agent has offered nonis and what the plan is for the team. It would make your statements easier to understand

??????

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