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Old
07-28-2013, 02:30 AM
  #51
ottawa
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Originally Posted by Petes2424 View Post
Not sure who said that and your question is extremely hypothetical because we all know that neither player would be traded. Having said that and taking Crosby and Malkin out of the equation, Pittsburgh wouldn't be able to make it worth losing a player who will be at the top of the league for 15 years.
Every post here is hypothetical, it's the trade proposal thread...

And my question was pretty simple, taking only Crosby out of the question...Phx fans believe PIT should add to Malkin to get OEL. Take out all the impossibilities, this is purely hypothetical like every other thread in this forum

Malkin+ for OEL

What do Phoenix fans think that + is for it to be balanced...I mean, it's beyond me how the 2nd best player in the world isn't already a huge overpayment.

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Old
07-28-2013, 02:34 AM
  #52
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Phx fans believe
Serious over generalization. You are talking to one specific poster.

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Old
07-28-2013, 02:35 AM
  #53
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considering the prospects and dmen already in the PHX org (rundblad, yandle, murphy, gormley, summers, stone etc).

I'd like to think PHX does not say no to TWO players who can be 1-2 C's.

Stasnty - O'Reilly - Hanzal down the middle would be great for the organization.

that said I'd probably like PHX to throw in Hanzal in addition to OEL if colorado made that deal.

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07-28-2013, 02:36 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by SniperHF View Post
Serious over generalization. You are talking to one specific poster.
You're right, I thought I was arguing with two Phoenix fans but it's just one.

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Old
07-28-2013, 02:59 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avsfan89 View Post

Stasnty - O'Reilly - Hanzal down the middle would be great for the organization.

that said I'd probably like PHX to throw in Hanzal in addition to OEL if colorado made that deal.
Yep. I'll gladly trade you a #1D under contract for the next 6 years for the privilege of acquiring $13 million dollars worth of centers I don't need. One will be an UFA and the other has had contentious negotiations before as a RFA. On top of that, I'll throw in a center signed to a great deal for four more years that is worth more than either of the pieces you are sending back.

OP's proposal is horrible on all fronts. You managed to do worse.

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Old
07-28-2013, 03:52 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avsfan89 View Post
considering the prospects and dmen already in the PHX org (rundblad, yandle, murphy, gormley, summers, stone etc).

I'd like to think PHX does not say no to TWO players who can be 1-2 C's.

Stasnty - O'Reilly - Hanzal down the middle would be great for the organization.

that said I'd probably like PHX to throw in Hanzal in addition to OEL if colorado made that deal.
why doesn't Phoenix just throw Yandle and the next three years worth of first rounders too since you are keen on attempting to bend us over

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Old
07-28-2013, 06:00 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by letowskie View Post
That's a really good package, I would almost be forced to make that move, even though it would be extremely tough to let OEL go.

There is a limited number of packages that I would move OEL for; keeping in mind that we could not be taking back too much more salary than OEL makes alone (which eliminate teams like Det, Tor, Mont, Van, etc) from forming any package at all that comes close to value), period (anything in addition to each of these packages, obviously would be accepted):
  • Pitts: Crosby
  • TBL: Stamkos
  • NYI: Tavares
  • Nash: Weber
  • LA: Doughty
  • STL: Pietrangelo
  • Edmon: 2 of {Hall, Eberle, RNH, Yaq}
  • Winn: Kane + Bogosian
  • Col: Mac + 1st or Duchene + 1st (Mac + Duke obviously would be better than either)
  • Ottawa: Ryan + Zib + Cowen
  • Chicago: Kane + Leddy
  • Ana: (Perry or Getzlaf) + Fowler

I think that's about it. Any other team with any other package pretty much need not apply.
This may be the worst case of homerism I've seen on the trade forum. Congratulations for accomplishing such a feat.

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07-28-2013, 06:15 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by EternalBlue View Post
This may be the worst case of homerism I've seen on the trade forum. Congratulations for accomplishing such a feat.
Don Maloney has said it will take a Crosby/Stamkos/Tavares for him to even consider moving OEL. He isn't available. So we can just stop this thread, like every other OEL thread. You can run up the post count screaming about how he isn't worth such a player if you want. Coyote fans aren't going to humor you.

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07-28-2013, 06:59 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by letowskie View Post
That's a really good package, I would almost be forced to make that move, even though it would be extremely tough to let OEL go.

There is a limited number of packages that I would move OEL for; keeping in mind that we could not be taking back too much more salary than OEL makes alone (which eliminate teams like Det, Tor, Mont, Van, etc) from forming any package at all that comes close to value), period (anything in addition to each of these packages, obviously would be accepted):
  • Pitts: Crosby
  • TBL: Stamkos
  • NYI: Tavares
  • Nash: Weber
  • LA: Doughty
  • STL: Pietrangelo
  • Edmon: 2 of {Hall, Eberle, RNH, Yaq}
  • Winn: Kane + Bogosian
  • Col: Mac + 1st or Duchene + 1st (Mac + Duke obviously would be better than either)
  • Ottawa: Ryan + Zib + Cowen
  • Chicago: Kane + Leddy
  • Ana: (Perry or Getzlaf) + Fowler

I think that's about it. Any other team with any other package pretty much need not apply.
Haha really? No other packages?

What about:

- Lucic + Hamilton
- Kesler + Kassian + Horvat
- Malkin + Sutter
- Toews + Saad
- Suter + Granlund
- Parise + Scandella
- Giroux + Couturier
- Benn + Eakins
- Hedman + Drouin
- Nash + Del zotto
- Couture + Burns
- Huberdeau + Barkov
- Ehrhoff + Grigorenko
- Backes + Shattenkirk

C'mon man give your head a shake...

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Old
07-28-2013, 07:06 AM
  #60
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OEL isn't going to get traded and Phoenix fans get as silly as Avs fans get when someone suggests they could have Landeskog/Duchene/MacKinnon.

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Old
07-28-2013, 08:05 AM
  #61
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Wow, it looks like OEL has become the most overrated player on HF. Not saying Phoenix should move him, but some people here are crazy if they think he is worth Mackinnon and Duchene.

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07-28-2013, 08:17 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierce Hawthorne View Post
OEL quickly becoming one of HF's most overrated players....



To bad because I really like OEL as a Dman and think he's already a level above Pietrangelo.


The idea of Mack or even Duchene for OEL is laughable. Duchene especially(Mack for OEL isn't terrible value, but PHX still wins the trade by far).
MacK for OEL is laughable on its own. You're dreaming if you think we'll trade our #1 d-man for an unproven prospect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeRadicals View Post
Quite the statement. Can PHX fans enlighten us outsiders why OEL is worth that much. Because I honestly don't see what you guys are seeing, in terms of value.
His views are not in line with the rest of us. We have more realistic posters as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by avsman View Post
O'Reilly+1st/2nd for Yandle?

How's Boedker treatin you these days?
No, and Boedker had a great season last year, thanks for asking!


And to all those who are saying OEL is the most overvalued player, you're putting the words of one poster and labelling us all with their words.

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Old
07-28-2013, 08:21 AM
  #63
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ROR + Elliott and nothing more. OEL is good, but he's not the reincarnation of Bobby Orr like some people ate claiming.

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07-28-2013, 08:24 AM
  #64
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I like how the original proposal as well as all those that have followed are so bad nobody has pointed out this can't happen until the 28th of February.

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Old
07-28-2013, 12:29 PM
  #65
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ROR + Elliott and nothing more. OEL is good, but he's not the reincarnation of Bobby Orr like some people ate claiming.
Still no.

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Old
07-28-2013, 12:45 PM
  #66
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What the hell has OEL done to show he's worth Duchene+?
7th in voting for Norris this year. This playing on an injured foot for much of the season. Upward development has him as a perennial Norris candidate. This is why Phoenix fans have OEL in the "untouchable" zone and use the quotes supplied by management as Crosbyesque type player being required before they would ever consider moving him. It's a statement designed to stop thoughts that such a move would be considered by the organization. I fear that just been interpreted by others that you can just keep adding quality assets until on paper it seems ridiculous to hold to that stance. The issue of course is no organization would make such an offer and furthermore the financial considerations would likely make it impossible as well. Coyote fans aren't trying to insult Colorado fans here; we just fail to see the point in discussing a move that management has already said they wouldn't consider.

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Old
07-28-2013, 12:49 PM
  #67
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Neither management would consider moving their star player for eachother, Duchy or OEL, we're just in desperate need of a franchise defender that in a fantasy trade forum it's fun to consider because of our massive center depth.

Better discussion is Klesla to Colorado.

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Old
07-28-2013, 12:56 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Ceremony View Post
I like how the original proposal as well as all those that have followed are so bad nobody has pointed out this can't happen until the 28th of February.
Actually I did.. Just got the exact date wrong.



OEL is supposed to become the Charas, Prongers, and Lidstromes that teams want. A franchise dman that can carry the team and at this point he hasn't slowed Down in his progression so no coyotes fan will want to or even honestly consider trading him. It's not a mater of player value, it's his value to this team and the fact that he's still improving that makes him worth so much. For all we know he could in a way surpass Orr.

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Old
07-28-2013, 01:00 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierce Hawthorne View Post
OEL quickly becoming one of HF's most overrated players....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zolik37 View Post
Wow, it looks like OEL has become the most overrated player on HF.
He's not overrated at all. What he is is not available.

It never fails to amaze me how so many people just utterly fail to recognize this simple little fact.

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07-28-2013, 01:04 PM
  #70
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In a vacuum, duchene for oel is roughly fair value. It isn't a vacuum and neither of those guys will be traded.

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07-28-2013, 01:08 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by huntison View Post
Haha really? No other packages?

What about:

- Lucic + Hamilton
- Kesler + Kassian + Horvat
- Malkin + Sutter
- Toews + Saad
- Suter + Granlund
- Parise + Scandella
- Giroux + Couturier
- Benn + Eakins
- Hedman + Drouin
- Nash + Del zotto
- Couture + Burns
- Huberdeau + Barkov
- Ehrhoff + Grigorenko
- Backes + Shattenkirk

C'mon man give your head a shake...
Keep in mind that we have a very good D corps without OEL already (just not top 5 in the league), so no more need to get a D back unless a premier prospect that makes vey little in salary. We also have the center position set; so unless it's a massive upgrade over Rib and Hanz (Crosby, Stamkos), we are not interested in any other C. Now, onto the packages:
  • Hamilton is interesting; but if we are dealing OEL, we would likely need either a premier forward in the league, or a top 5 D that is still young coming back. Value is there, but doesn't interest the Yotes.
  • Kesler is a 2C, which we have plenty of, he would not be significant upgrade over either Rib or Hanzal; Kassian is close to useless unless he seriously develops further, Horvat is just a prospect right now (I would have taken Nichushkin instead myself).
  • Malkin + Sutter brings back twice the salary of OEL, so no, that's not going to work.
  • Toews is a nice piece, I don't think Saad adds enough to justify. We are more or less set at C for a couple of seasons, so we need a top line winger; we are not moving OEL to bump Rib and Hanzal down to 2C and 3C, and make Vermette play on the 4th line; that's just not a good hockey trade. Kane is far more interesting than Toews.
  • Suter make way too much; he isn't any more effective than OEL right now, and makes much more; Minn would have to retain 33% of salary for that to work. I like Granlund, so that deal is interesting.
  • Parise is also making too much. Scandella doesn't add much to the deal; so I'm not even sure if the value is here at all.
  • Giroux is a great piece; but again, we already have top 3 C spots filled; why in the world would we want 5 Cs: Giroux - Ribeiro - Hanzal - Couturier - and Vermette plays in the AHL? The value is there, but this makes us one of the most unbalanced teams ever.
  • Benn is another center. Like I said a million times, we are looking for top line winger as the primary target. Eakins doesn't add much here anyways.
  • Hedman is not someone that I'm high on, so I wouldn't consider a trade with him being the main piece. I really like Drouin, so if you swiched Hedman out for another forward of Drouin's caliber, I would probably do it.
  • Nash, just no. I wouldn't want to bring all the money and locker room issues to Phoenix.
  • Couture + Burns. I would have said yes prior to signing Ribeiro. But we no longer need a center. Couture would be a nice piece to have in the future; but we still don't get any top 6 wing that we need back. If you can substitute Burns for a winger of similar age and caliber, then this would be a yes.
  • Huberdeau + Barkov. If we assume that Huberdeau can play LW instead of C, then this deal would be a yes. Barkov will probably need some seasoning, and be the eventual replacement for Rib. And Huberdeau can help us right now. So this I would have to say yes to (if Hub plays wing effectively)
  • Ehrhoff would not be the main piece in any deal involving OEL. And Grigorenko has not demonstrated at all that he can translate his game over to NA. So this would be a resounding no.
  • Backes is OK; but we have a player with very similar ability and function in Hanzal. Shattenkirk is OK, but we already have Yandle, so it would also be a duplication. This trade has value, but doesn't provide anything that we need, so not a good idea.

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Old
07-28-2013, 01:19 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by letowskie View Post
  • Benn is another center. Like I said a million times, we are looking for top line winger as the primary target. Eakins doesn't add much here anyways.
Benn is actually a natural winger who was obliged to play center because there wasn't anyone else available at the time.

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Originally Posted by letowskie View Post
  • Couture + Burns. I would have said yes prior to signing Ribeiro. But we no longer need a center. Couture would be a nice piece to have in the future; but we still don't get any top 6 wing that we need back. If you can substitute Burns for a winger of similar age and caliber, then this would be a yes.
You seem unaware of the fact that Burns played RW for most of his games with SJ last year and did extremely well.


Also, bit of advice - responding to the overpayment packages, while mildly interesting, doesn't help under these circumstances. They're not listing these to get an idea of Phoenix's needs. They're listing them as mockery due to a failure to understand the concept of "not available (barring exceptional circumstances)".

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07-28-2013, 06:07 PM
  #73
letowskie
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Benn is actually a natural winger who was obliged to play center because there wasn't anyone else available at the time.



You seem unaware of the fact that Burns played RW for most of his games with SJ last year and did extremely well.
You seem to be right on both accounts. I guess Burns would not be too bad of a choice to slot in as a top 6 wing.

Quote:
Also, bit of advice - responding to the overpayment packages, while mildly interesting, doesn't help under these circumstances. They're not listing these to get an idea of Phoenix's needs. They're listing them as mockery due to a failure to understand the concept of "not available (barring exceptional circumstances)".
Just trying to respond to their claims as if they are serious proposals. I didn't want to make assumptions about whether they were facetious or not. Anyways, it seems that most other teams are not willing to pay for legit value of how much OEL means to the Yotes (which maybe more than what he means to another team). Something like P Kane + or Hall + is the minimum as a baseline that we can work with in any potential deal.

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Old
07-28-2013, 06:37 PM
  #74
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7th in voting for Norris this year.
Yeah, with 79 vote points. Next closest was 6th place Duncan Keith with 281 points lol.


That's like me saying Matt Duchene was a Selke candidate because he got a few votes.

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07-28-2013, 06:44 PM
  #75
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Yeah, with 79 vote points. Next closest was 6th place Duncan Keith with 281 points lol.


That's like me saying Matt Duchene was a Selke candidate because he got a few votes.
Interesting that you wouldn't mention the names of the other D (Weber, Doughty, Pieterangelo, etc.) that he finished ahead of. There's an argument that OEL is already amongst the elite of those who play his position. This was the intent of my original statement.


Last edited by hbk: 07-28-2013 at 06:53 PM.
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