HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Notices

Cole Trade Revisted/ Briere signing

View Poll Results: Cole Vs Briere
Cole 52 27.08%
Briere 140 72.92%
Voters: 192. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-27-2013, 12:58 PM
  #76
Kriss E
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 20,868
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsl View Post
Exactly. The Briere term (sounds like a film) is fine. And it shows exactly what Bergy is doing: Compete short term, Contend in 2 years.

I enjoy and respect the guys on this board, but I wish more guys here would realize that Bergy has TWO mandates: Compete now, AND build a contender. Briere was perfect for the compete now part of the equation. He also helps for the second part:

DB is french. He will wear the jersey with pride, and he will bring a lot of lessons and leadership to guys like Gally and Chuckie.

I don't see a problem here. And I laugh at the Laffs. What, 5 years for a third liner who will be washed up in two years, and be no help at all IF they contend in 3 years?



Exactement mon amis.
I also think Bergevin is a big believer in "once in the PO, anything can happen". I agree with him, if Price has a conn smythe worthy performance, I think he can definitely leads this group to the finals, considering our youngsters keep progressing upwards.
So I think Briere's PO proven performances are a big factor as to why he was signed.

I also don't think Bergevin is dumb enough to believe that we lost to the sens due to lack of size. We lost to them because we suffered injury after injury at the wrong time.
I'm glad Bergevin didn't go nuts on Clowe or Clarkson.

In fully confident that we're building a solid team for years to come.
The bulldogs will be as fun to follow as the Habs next year. We'll get to see a lot of interesting prospects.

Kriss E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2013, 01:43 PM
  #77
Saintpatrick
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,696
vCash: 500
The thing is after the lockout Cole wasn't the same player. He talked about retirement and looked like he didn't want to be there. I'm glad we got some production out of him when we did and traded him for decent return. I'm not thrilled on how we spent the cap money we saved though. I'm not a Briere fan and don't think I'll ever be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I also think Bergevin is a big believer in "once in the PO, anything can happen". I agree with him, if Price has a conn smythe worthy performance, I think he can definitely leads this group to the finals, considering our youngsters keep progressing upwards.
So I think Briere's PO proven performances are a big factor as to why he was signed.

I also don't think Bergevin is dumb enough to believe that we lost to the sens due to lack of size. We lost to them because we suffered injury after injury at the wrong time.
I'm glad Bergevin didn't go nuts on Clowe or Clarkson.

In fully confident that we're building a solid team for years to come.
The bulldogs will be as fun to follow as the Habs next year. We'll get to see a lot of interesting prospects.

That Clarkson contract is going to look horrible after next year. I'm happy MB showed some restraint and patients and didn't go out and over pay for marginal talent like the Leafs did.

Saintpatrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2013, 05:32 PM
  #78
WG
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 388
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
I don't like the Briere signing but to compare the two situations is flawed. Whether it was the lockout or something else, there was definitely something wrong with Cole as he wasn't the player he was the previous year.

People can sit here and blame Bergevin all they want but to say that Cole's money was used to sign Briere is subjective, at best.

Here's another thread to start: Gomez and Kaberle buyouts / Briere signing.

See what I mean?
No, I do not.

It is a fairly reasonable straight line from Cole to Ryder to Briere. All three guys serve(d) the role of "4-millionish veteran scoring forward." The major selling point on the Cole trade was getting out from under the rest of his deal, with lots and lots of people here and in the press looking at it as creating cap space. Well, we pawned off Cole's deal for 2/$9M remaining, and signed DB for 2/$8.

I get the concept that the comings and goings on a roster have to be looked at in totality but given this offseason, the team hasn't done very much. We let Armstrong go, and traded a late pick and a Z-prospect for a goon to take that depth-forward slot. We bought out a defenseman who was in the pressbox. Gomez wasn't even on the roster in 2012 so I think any link from Gomez to DB is a reach. Or at least we hope.

The one 'big' move was we let a forward go (Ryder) and put DB in his spot. Beyond that the roster is intact. There's nothing 'subjective' above comparing DB to either Cole or Ryder because that's exactly the roster spot and the dollars he's filling.

WG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2013, 05:47 PM
  #79
Hackett
HF Needs Feeny
 
Hackett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,806
vCash: 500
Cole's career has been filled with some erratic patches. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he has a good season this year after a poor one. It wouldn't be the first time for him.

Having said that, I was okay with the trade, but I'm not okay with the Briere signing. I'd rather have kept Cole for the remaining 2 years, than to sign briere for another 2 years. The reasoning is that Cole on the top of his game brings dimensions that the habs really need, while Briere at the top of his game only enhances what the habs already have.

Hackett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-27-2013, 08:03 PM
  #80
Habsterix*
@Habsterix
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,475
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
Not sure why you think the comparison is flawed. Briere is replacing exactly position RW that was freed up by trading Cole/letting Ryder go...
But that's not what you said in the OP... You specifically talked about the money. Since when does a team have a budget by position?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WG View Post
No, I do not.
Allow me to question why as here's the OP's post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
If you knew that by trading away Cole, Bergevin would use the money to replace him with Briere, would you make the deal?
So what I'm saying is that it's as much the money saved from the Gomez/Kaberle buyout as it is Ryder's or Cole's money. As a matter of fact, as Cole was traded for Ryder, I'd say it's Ryder's money more than Cole's, if you want to go for sensationalism, like many reporters do in Montreal. But in reality, it's simply cap hit money and the buyouts freed-up more money than Cole.

Habsterix* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 12:30 AM
  #81
bsl
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,771
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I also think Bergevin is a big believer in "once in the PO, anything can happen". I agree with him, if Price has a conn smythe worthy performance, I think he can definitely leads this group to the finals, considering our youngsters keep progressing upwards.
So I think Briere's PO proven performances are a big factor as to why he was signed.

I also don't think Bergevin is dumb enough to believe that we lost to the sens due to lack of size. We lost to them because we suffered injury after injury at the wrong time.
I'm glad Bergevin didn't go nuts on Clowe or Clarkson.

In fully confident that we're building a solid team for years to come.
The bulldogs will be as fun to follow as the Habs next year. We'll get to see a lot of interesting prospects.
Something I did not mention when I said Bergy has to both compete and contend: I am not a big believer in the 'anything can happen in the PO' idea. However, this year I will say that if Price is playing to his potential, then yes, anything can happen, especially if we are doing well and pick up a good tough player at deadline, and are lucky with health in the PO.

I think Bergy knows this too, but he is not betting on contending this year. He needs one more year. I'm not seeing contention this year, but next, so the Briere signing is to me a way of keeping the team competitive while continuing to build. That's all it is. No need to freak out about it.

And Holy ****: I said 5 years in my post. Clarkson is SEVEN years? I laugh my ass off.


Last edited by bsl: 07-28-2013 at 12:37 AM.
bsl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 12:30 AM
  #82
habs03
Subban #Thoroughbred
 
habs03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,405
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
But that's not what you said in the OP... You specifically talked about the money. Since when does a team have a budget by position?


Allow me to question why as here's the OP's post:



So what I'm saying is that it's as much the money saved from the Gomez/Kaberle buyout as it is Ryder's or Cole's money. As a matter of fact, as Cole was traded for Ryder, I'd say it's Ryder's money more than Cole's, if you want to go for sensationalism, like many reporters do in Montreal. But in reality, it's simply cap hit money and the buyouts freed-up more money than Cole.
I guess your right if you want to get technical, heck if where actually want to know where money was spent, it actually went to DD, because when Cole spoke about the trade, that he talked about having a talk with Bergevin and he said if he didnt waive his NTC to Dallas he might have been traded elsewhere, and that Bergevin talked to him about needing the cap space to sign some of his young guys coming off contracts, and he was looking to trade Cole(I guess he had a limited NTC).


While they might not have budget for position, I think seeing they give DB a similar contract to what Cole who have had left on his deal, and seeing how they play the same position, I think it clearly says that management values DB or Cole. Maybe it's just me but its clear as day that Briere was brought in to take over Cole/Ryder spot in the lineup


Last edited by habs03: 07-28-2013 at 12:58 AM.
habs03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 01:56 AM
  #83
NewHabsEra*
 
NewHabsEra*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 10,695
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
Briere is listed at 5'10 every, while it might be generous, it could be said about a ton of other players around the league....

The 3rd round pick is not really important in regards to what I was saying...
If Briere is 5"10, then Im 6"1...

NewHabsEra* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 02:51 AM
  #84
Miller Time
Registered User
 
Miller Time's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 7,736
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
OK, let's be honest. Who wouldn't rather have Ryder for two years at $3.5M and know almost for sure that you will get 20+ goals, than Brière for two years at $4M and have no idea what you will get, but it might be zero.
agreed...

Ryder is what he is, which seems to rub many coaches/GM's the wrong way, but he is relatively reliable/consistent, regular season and playoffs.

It's almost like the fact that he seems to underwhelm or fail to live up to his higher end potential consistently bothers people to the point of dismissing him entirely (the way we seemed to have this offseason).

I totally understood when previous management let him walk for the windfall Boston paid him, but to see him sign a 3.5M$/per short-term deal, without even making him an offer... and then to fill his spot with an older, more injury prone, equally one-dimensional, offensive player... hard to see the rationale

Miller Time is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 07:00 AM
  #85
overlords
Global Moderator
Canada's Mod
 
overlords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Trolling Brian Wilde
Posts: 24,233
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
agreed...

Ryder is what he is, which seems to rub many coaches/GM's the wrong way, but he is relatively reliable/consistent, regular season and playoffs.

It's almost like the fact that he seems to underwhelm or fail to live up to his higher end potential consistently bothers people to the point of dismissing him entirely (the way we seemed to have this offseason).

I totally understood when previous management let him walk for the windfall Boston paid him, but to see him sign a 3.5M$/per short-term deal, without even making him an offer... and then to fill his spot with an older, more injury prone, equally one-dimensional, offensive player... hard to see the rationale
Reminds me of Kostitsyn

__________________



"overlords is one of my favorite people on this entire site." - Hfboards
overlords is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 08:34 AM
  #86
habsfanatics
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 2,974
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
You didn't need to mention Stewart/Ryan as many others have......it was clearly implied as they are the only ones who fit your criteria of preferable options to Briere.



Amen to that bother!



Where do you possibly get that MB can't move Briere due to a NMC???

If things aren't working out then Briere is free to waive it and command complete control of where he goes. It is simply a case of leverage and control of his immediate future. Trust me.....you don't want to stand firm on a NMC in Montreal as the remainder of your stay will be something less than pleasant.
Oh, I see, because I thought the Briere signing was completely pointless it must mean I'm upset we didn't acquire Stewart or Ryan. Please. I don't like Chris Stewart, and I wouldn't have gave up the assets for Ryan. I don't think we're there yet for those types of deals, however, spending money for the sake of spending money isn't a better idea.

habsfanatics is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 08:43 AM
  #87
Emanresu Wen
Registered User
 
Emanresu Wen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,051
vCash: 500
2012 Cole was the best player wearing a habs jersey in a loooooooooong time

2013 Cole was a disaster

Emanresu Wen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 08:59 AM
  #88
overlords
Global Moderator
Canada's Mod
 
overlords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Trolling Brian Wilde
Posts: 24,233
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emanresu Wen View Post
2012 Cole was the best player wearing a habs jersey in a loooooooooong time

2013 Cole was a disaster
He wasn't even the best player on his team. Pump your breaks.

overlords is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 09:39 AM
  #89
JPGoHabsGo
Registered User
 
JPGoHabsGo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 513
vCash: 500
I wasn't disappointed with the Cole trade. He was virtually invisible most of the time. I know he had a lot of flak for what he said during and immediately after the lock out, but I seriously doubt he was a terror in the locker room and all that. Didn't he actually seem upset to be leaving Montreal at the airport or something?

JPGoHabsGo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 09:41 AM
  #90
Emanresu Wen
Registered User
 
Emanresu Wen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,051
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by overlords View Post
He wasn't even the best player on his team. Pump your breaks.
Meant to say forward, best forward

Physical, can score, makes his teammates better.. exactly what we needed and got, for a too short period of time though

Emanresu Wen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 11:04 AM
  #91
ak90210
Registered User
 
ak90210's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 624
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Bergevin: *Trades Cole
Bergevin: *Signs Briere
Bergevin: "It's hard to get big physical forwards!"

Hopefully this isn't the beginning of many stupid moves but it is starting out ugly.
Signing Briere was smart, extending Desharnais was the problem.

ak90210 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 11:39 AM
  #92
24get
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,274
vCash: 50
Is it possible that DD produced more after Cole was trade?
What about Pacioretty?

24get is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 11:51 AM
  #93
Kriss E
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 20,868
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emanresu Wen View Post
Meant to say forward, best forward

Physical, can score, makes his teammates better.. exactly what we needed and got, for a too short period of time though
Plekanec has been our best forward for a long time. MaxPac may surpass him but as of today he hasn't done it. I'm hoping Eller does as well, and Gally should. But Cole never was our best forward.

Kriss E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 11:54 AM
  #94
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Ohashi_Jouzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 20,715
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Reminds me of Kostitsyn
Good call right there.

Ohashi_Jouzu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 12:13 PM
  #95
FlyingKostitsyn
Registered User
 
FlyingKostitsyn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Quebec
Country: Australia
Posts: 7,830
vCash: 500
I just read a nice article on JdM from Marc De Foy, who interviewed Briere. Lots of good questions, honest answers.

For the non-french and non-JdM readers :

1. Briere really had a hard decision to make when he had to choose between Philly and Habs. He said it would have been easy to say Montreal didn't interest him then, but he couldn't since it was a heartbreaking decision.

2. Without delving further about the subject, he says that decision was not only about him (imho, confirming rumors about his then wife refusing to go to Montreal)

3. He was decided to go to Montreal this time and both his current girlfriend (a US military doctor) and children agreed, despite this meaning he'd live quite far from them. The kids can't wait to visit in Montreal and go to the Bell Center, the girlfriend knows how important the CH is to him.

4. His mother died recently, and he wanted to move closer to his father, a diehard CH fan, to make him happier and help him.

5. He remembers weeping when the CH lost when he was a kid. The wuss

6. He insists he's not here for the money, that he owes everything to hockey and that he's made more than enough.

7. He was surprised that more than half of the teams contacted his agent after he was bought out. The CH was a no brainer as he didn't want this second chance to choose the team go.

Briere, talking about the current roster and team :

1. He is convinced the team's lack of success in last playoffs is due in big part to inexperience, not size. He specifically mention Gallagher as playing much bigger than his size and Gionta as having a wealth of experience.

2. The Habs are not the only small team, he says, and but he thinks Bergevin will try to acquire bigger players. Experience, in his opinion, is the most important factor in the playoffs.

3. He says that smaller forwards are not easier to play against (sometimes even harder), and that the Flyers had trouble playing against the faster teams. When facing faster teams you have to keep moving. The best teams are those with good balance.

4. Briere classifies the Habs as a very explosive team because it relies on many puck moving defensemen, allowing a good transition game.

5. He is very confident in Price, who is a great goalie in his opinion. He says he has great character because he was able to come out very strongly after his difficult 2009-10 campaign, where he was criticized at every turn. He says he was doing good last season until the last two weeks, and that he's not worried. He knows how good he his from having faced him a lot of times on the ice, and he's happy to have him as a teammate.

6. He does not seem to care at all whether he plays as a center or winger, and will do whatever is asked of him from the team. He says it does not matter much once the puck is in play, you have to react quickly and its one of his strengths.

FlyingKostitsyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 12:30 PM
  #96
OneSharpMarble
Registered User
 
OneSharpMarble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,052
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ak90210 View Post
Signing Briere was smart, extending Desharnais was the problem.
Signing a player who never wanted to be here when he had another option is never smart, especially one who brings as little as briere.

This team had need of a powerforward like cole for over a decade, we finally get him and he is traded at the first drop in production.

OneSharpMarble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 12:33 PM
  #97
OneSharpMarble
Registered User
 
OneSharpMarble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,052
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Plekanec has been our best forward for a long time. MaxPac may surpass him but as of today he hasn't done it. I'm hoping Eller does as well, and Gally should. But Cole never was our best forward.
Cole turned DD into a first line centre (he has since reverted) and helped Pacioretty become the player he is today. He was our best player that year and led the team by example. Don't be ignorant.

OneSharpMarble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 12:45 PM
  #98
Kriss E
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 20,868
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Cole turned DD into a first line centre (he has since reverted) and helped Pacioretty become the player he is today. He was our best player that year and led the team by example. Don't be ignorant.
So he was a solid offensive player, that doesn't make him the best forward.
DD was not a first line center, and MaxPac had already started stepping up his game the previous year along side Gionta and Gomez. Not denying Cole helped either player, but to me Plekanec stays the best player, which is far from any knock on Cole.

Kriss E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 12:48 PM
  #99
Kriss E
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 20,868
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post

This team had need of a powerforward like cole for over a decade, we finally get him and he is traded at the first drop in production.

It's not like Cole stepped it up in Dallas.
The guy made one dumb comment after another. He went from Hero to zero in my book.

Kriss E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 02:01 PM
  #100
Teufelsdreck
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 13,742
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Cole turned DD into a first line centre (he has since reverted) and helped Pacioretty become the player he is today. He was our best player that year and led the team by example. Don't be ignorant.
Are you forgetting that Cole also reverted into something less than what he was? I'm not keen on signing older UFAs for more than one year, and that includes Briere. Note that both the Bruins and the Devils gave Jagr one year contracts.

Teufelsdreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:24 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.