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07-28-2013, 11:34 AM
  #201
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by Craig71 View Post
Every team in the league has struggles and someone else has to step up when things go dry for certain players, it's what depth does for you. We have lacked a true offensive firepower line for as long as I can remember and hopefully a maturing Galchenyuk and a consistent Pacioretty can remedy that.

Emelin was the key physical piece on a fairly non physical D core and when he was gone that part of our game was gone. Davis Drewiske certainly could'nt fill his shoes, so it was obvious that Bergevin valued Emelins ability and tried to compliment it, albeit unsuccessfully. We need another Emelin and of course we need Price to stop the puck, he's paid like a top goalie so it's time to play like one.
I'm not arguing we don't need Emelin, I'm just saying his loss was not the reason why we started struggling.

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07-28-2013, 12:24 PM
  #202
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I'm not arguing we don't need Emelin, I'm just saying his loss was not the reason why we started struggling.
I am merely stating his importance and the fact that we need another proven NHL defenceman in the mold of Emelin.I rest my argument.

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07-28-2013, 01:42 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
Diaz is a lot like DD for me, I don't mind him individually, but he's just a bad fit for this club imo.

LOL at the poster saying he could be our next Markov, I appreciate the extreme optimism, but there is no chance of that happening, zero.

I'd like DD and Diaz more if they played somewhere else.

Our next Markov, I spit my coffee out laughing at that, thanks for the laugh.
Depends what you mean by bad fit. If you want a strong offensive team (Like we were last year) then you need puck movers on every pair. So long as Diaz is affordable then he has a place on the 3rd pairing and 2nd PP and fits in nicely with the team. Diaz is not the problem, it's the other 3 guys that are supposed to be complementing our puck movers.

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07-28-2013, 02:45 PM
  #204
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Depends what you mean by bad fit. If you want a strong offensive team (Like we were last year) then you need puck movers on every pair. So long as Diaz is affordable then he has a place on the 3rd pairing and 2nd PP and fits in nicely with the team. Diaz is not the problem, it's the other 3 guys that are supposed to be complementing our puck movers.
I disagree, we need a minutes cruncher. I think based on the roster makeup, Diaz is the expendable one. I don't think you need a true puck
Mover on each pair either. We had gorges and gill paired together at a time and they were pretty good. Even Emelin/tinordi move the puck fine. I find he's redundant, much like dd/Briere are. We have two of the best puck movers in the game. We need a big physical minutes eater. Bouillon brings an element of physicality and can move the puck adequately on the 3rd pair. I'm not a big Diaz fan to begin with, but I think with the lack of crease clearers on the back end, he is the one who is expendable. My opinion anyways, we're still way too soft back there.

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07-28-2013, 03:26 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by Kjell Dahlin View Post
I guess I will be the Debbie Downer here...

I like Diaz’s hockey IQ, his positioning, his confidence, I want him on the first PP wave alongside Markov, he covers a lot of space... but... a top 4 that includes Markov, Gorges and Diaz seriously lacks size and toughness. I also think that Subban deserves (he brings a better overall contribution... as in toughness!) more ice-time than Diaz.

Long stroy short, imo Diaz is a keeper... for our 3rd pairing!

This season:

1. Gorges - Subban
2. Markov - Emelin
3. Bouillon – Diaz

Next season:

(...)
3. Tinordi - Diaz
you cant play him on the third pairing , wtf is he going to do as a soft d

he has no place on this team

go back and watch the playoffs , he played like crap , couldnt move anyone in front

pure trade bait , u dont win with this guy in the playoffs

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07-28-2013, 03:29 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
I disagree, we need a minutes cruncher. I think based on the roster makeup, Diaz is the expendable one. I don't think you need a true puck
Mover on each pair either. We had gorges and gill paired together at a time and they were pretty good. Even Emelin/tinordi move the puck fine. I find he's redundant, much like dd/Briere are. We have two of the best puck movers in the game. We need a big physical minutes eater. Bouillon brings an element of physicality and can move the puck adequately on the 3rd pair. I'm not a big Diaz fan to begin with, but I think with the lack of crease clearers on the back end, he is the one who is expendable. My opinion anyways, we're still way too soft back there.
exactly r u guys blind ? did u watch the finals where does a soft one dimensional d fit

he got ***** slapped against Ottawa

we have PK , and Nathan and MARKOV will be around for one more year

he is too soft we have plenty of puck movers

we need size, strength a reliable Scuderi type not another MAB

give your head a shake folks

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07-28-2013, 03:32 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
If Diaz was your #6, you'd either have ridiculous depth or a better defense than anybody in the NHL the last 2 seasons. On most teams a guy like him is a #3-4 and on a powerhouse team he may be #5 at worse.

The thing with Diaz is he will be a UFA next summer and MB should be trying to extend him. If he is asigned to a good contract(2 years 5.5 mil or 3 years 7.5 mil) he is easy to move if he becomes an extra with the young guys coming in like Beaulieu.



The difference between you and MB is he is trying to build a team that contends for the cup year in year out for a 4-5-6 year window, not just one year and have to tear it down. If you start on short term fixes, it costs in future assets and puts roadblocks in front of the guys ready to(or close) to stepping in. That window will be wide open in about 2 years once Tinordi Galchenyuk Beaulieu Gallagher etc are in their prime.


I don't agree Emelin is anywhere as good with the puck. He's good for a "stay at home" but not on the same level as Diaz both at moving the puck and also at playing the PP point.

On your 2nd point, a "second Emelin" is already on the way in Tinordi. Diaz might be the "next Markov", that will probably defend on a few factors, but I can't see Diaz being moved unless Markov signs an extension, and even then Beaulieu probably needs another year AHL so you need a 3rd PMD anyways.
on a powerhouse team

DIAZ DOESNT PLAY PERIOD

TOO SOFT

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07-28-2013, 04:26 PM
  #208
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C-C-C-Combo Breaker.

You can post consecutively as many times as you want, you're still wrong. Diaz plays on all 30 teams in this league, and he has a spot on this roster. The problem last year on D was losing Emelin and Gorges playing like crap, not Diaz. Diaz was playing great at even strength and he gives us another look for D on the PP if one of Subban or Markov goes down. Having 3 good puckmovers is a good thing, especially since we're a transition rushing team. Look at Chicago.

They just need to be surrounded better, something that Gorges and Bouillon couldn't do well last season.

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07-28-2013, 04:31 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by onemorecup View Post
on a powerhouse team

DIAZ DOESNT PLAY PERIOD

TOO SOFT
i don't know about that, it would depend entirely on the makeup of the other 5 d. He's certainly a top 6 dman, I'd just prefer it was somewhere else.

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07-28-2013, 04:39 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by onemorecup View Post
on a powerhouse team

DIAZ DOESNT PLAY PERIOD

TOO SOFT
Diaz was arguably our best D-man when P.k was in a contract dispute, also what makes Diaz soft? Because he doesn't hit much? He's not afraid to go in the corners and get hit, Diaz isn't ''soft'' and is an important player to this team.

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07-28-2013, 04:47 PM
  #211
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Remember when Diaz was injured and our second PP wave was Cube - Gorges?

Now imagine that all year long cause we have no one else to man the PP after Markov and Subban (Beaulieu isn't ready).

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07-28-2013, 05:44 PM
  #212
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Originally Posted by Treb View Post
Remember when Diaz was injured and our second PP wave was Cube - Gorges?

Now imagine that all year long cause we have no one else to man the PP after Markov and Subban (Beaulieu isn't ready).
FINE MY FRIEND

keep Diaz all you want

and when we get ***** slapped again by Methot, Cowan , Gryba types I will get the last laugh

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07-28-2013, 05:53 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by MonkeyBusiness View Post
Diaz was arguably our best D-man when P.k was in a contract dispute, also what makes Diaz soft? Because he doesn't hit much? He's not afraid to go in the corners and get hit, Diaz isn't ''soft'' and is an important player to this team.
first of all if Diaz is an important player to this team we are doomed

secondly can we stop for a second and think we havent had a contender type team in 20 years

isnt this the goal here to win something one fken day

go back and watch the playoffs and name me one team where a Diaz type was an important piece ?

your logic is like saying DD is important , wake up guys these aren`t the guys you go to war with in 4 rounds of attrition

there are some types like Diaz who help you in the regular season but WILL NEVER NEVER HELP YOU WIN IN THE PLAYOFFS

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07-28-2013, 05:55 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by Treb View Post
Remember when Diaz was injured and our second PP wave was Cube - Gorges?

Now imagine that all year long cause we have no one else to man the PP after Markov and Subban (Beaulieu isn't ready).
Nathan can play now , he cant be worse than the way Diaz played in the playoffs

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07-28-2013, 06:19 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by onemorecup View Post
first of all if Diaz is an important player to this team we are doomed

secondly can we stop for a second and think we havent had a contender type team in 20 years

isnt this the goal here to win something one fken day

go back and watch the playoffs and name me one team where a Diaz type was an important piece ?

your logic is like saying DD is important , wake up guys these aren`t the guys you go to war with in 4 rounds of attrition

there are some types like Diaz who help you in the regular season but WILL NEVER NEVER HELP YOU WIN IN THE PLAYOFFS
This is true. A lot of people here think the regular season means something.

The Habs are built to have moderate success in the season and get destroyed in the playoffs.

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07-28-2013, 06:45 PM
  #216
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This is true. A lot of people here think the regular season means something.

The Habs are built to have moderate success in the season and get destroyed in the playoffs.
Point out to me all the bruisers Chicago has. Also Detroit and Pittsburgh. We're not buult to be destroyed in the playoffs. The team ran into a cold streak, injuries piled up, and the Sens relied on very strong goaltending to beat us.

I agree that we need to bulk up on D, but Diaz is simply not the problem. Neither is Markov or Subban. Our problem last year was Gorges not playing the role he has to play for us to be successful, and the lack of a more rugged guy where Bouillon is.

If we want to have 3 good puckmovers, which I believe our team should due to our quickness and rush-focused offense, we need to insulate them with guys who can play defense and play a tough game as well, otherwise we're going to get lit up in our own end.

This is what the Hawks did with Leddy and Keith. While Keith is no slouch defensively when he has to be, he was allowed to play more of a puckmoving transition game due to Seabrook and Hjalmarsson being the defensive forces. Gorges couldn't do that for us last year. He was a liability when exposed to the tough minute defensive responsibilities.

In conclusion, the blame for our defensive woes is not to be placed on the guys who are supposed to provide a good transition game and strong first-passes and PP. The blame is to be placed on the guys who are supposed to be able to play in their own zone and play defense. Diaz will never be a stay-at-home rugged defenseman. It's okay because that's not what he is supposed to do. It's what Gorges is supposed to do. It's what Bouillon is supposed to do, it's what Emelin is supposed to do. There's room for 3 mobile/offensive D-men if-and-only-if our defensive guys can handle the responsibilities placed on them.

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07-28-2013, 06:49 PM
  #217
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Point out to me all the bruisers Chicago has. Also Detroit and Pittsburgh. We're not buult to be destroyed in the playoffs. The team ran into a cold streak, injuries piled up, and the Sens relied on very strong goaltending to beat us.

I agree that we need to bulk up on D, but Diaz is simply not the problem. Neither is Markov or Subban. Our problem last year was Gorges not playing the role he has to play for us to be successful, and the lack of a more rugged guy where Bouillon is.

If we want to have 3 good puckmovers, which I believe our team should due to our quickness and rush-focused offense, we need to insulate them with guys who can play defense and play a tough game as well, otherwise we're going to get lit up in our own end.

This is what the Hawks did with Leddy and Keith. While Keith is no slouch defensively when he has to be, he was allowed to play more of a puckmoving transition game due to Seabrook and Hjalmarsson being the defensive forces. Gorges couldn't do that for us last year. He was a liability when exposed to the tough minute defensive responsibilities.
I'm sorry but if the Habs would have played 82 games they could have very likely missed the playoffs.

Btw all the d-men you mentionned on the Hawks have a very nice physical element to their game. Keith can be very nasty at times.

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07-28-2013, 06:56 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
I disagree, we need a minutes cruncher. I think based on the roster makeup, Diaz is the expendable one. I don't think you need a true puck
Mover on each pair either. We had gorges and gill paired together at a time and they were pretty good. Even Emelin/tinordi move the puck fine. I find he's redundant, much like dd/Briere are. We have two of the best puck movers in the game. We need a big physical minutes eater. Bouillon brings an element of physicality and can move the puck adequately on the 3rd pair. I'm not a big Diaz fan to begin with, but I think with the lack of crease clearers on the back end, he is the one who is expendable. My opinion anyways, we're still way too soft back there.
We do need a minute cruncher as you say, but that's the Gorges, Emelin's and to a lesser extent Bouillon's role. They are supposed to be the defensive guys that can shutdown the opponents and clear the crease. They are ones that collectively are not doing their jobs, so we should be trying to upgrade one of those guys. For instance if you replace Bouillon with Hal Gill from a few years ago, suddenly our PK is better, we have someone who can handle PWFs, we can protect a 1-goal lead in the last minute of play, and we are a better playoff team.

When we had Gill-Gorges as a team we were also pretty terrible offensively. We usually only had one pairing that could pass the puck and the rest would simply chip the puck off the glass. Having D that can move the puck up the ice make a tremendous difference, without that no matter how good your forwards are they will struggle to score. We led the league in scoring by defenceman last year, it was one of our biggest strengths and a big part of our success. It would be a mistake to take away from that.

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07-28-2013, 06:57 PM
  #219
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I'm sorry but if the Habs would have played 82 games they could have very likely missed the playoffs.

Btw all the d-men you mentionned on the Hawks have a very nice physical element to their game. Keith can be very nasty at times.
You can't prove that at all. You can't assume the cold streak they were on would have lasted the last 34 games.

Keith lays elbows and gets suspended sometimes, but he's not a dominating physical presence. Neither is Leddy. If Montreal had a D-man like Seabrook to take some of the defensive responsibilities, this would be a non-issue.

Diaz came back after his injury and didn't look as good as he did early on. Cut the guy some slack. He's not the real issue on defense for us. He's not a liability. He's a guy who when given medium to soft minutes, can make our forwards look really good and can clear the zone.

What we need is a guy like Orpik, Klesla, etc, but not at the expense of Diaz. More at the expense of Bouillon or Gorges if he doesn't step his game up.

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07-28-2013, 06:59 PM
  #220
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Remember when Diaz was injured and our second PP wave was Cube - Gorges?

Now imagine that all year long cause we have no one else to man the PP after Markov and Subban (Beaulieu isn't ready).
Habs were 15-10 without him.

Not really missed at all.

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07-28-2013, 07:02 PM
  #221
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Habs were 15-10 without him.

Not really missed at all.
15-10 doesn't get you to 2nd in the East.

15-10 might not even get you to the playoffs from now on.

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07-28-2013, 07:42 PM
  #222
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props to player 61 for improving his passing last playoffs.

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07-28-2013, 07:43 PM
  #223
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To be a competitive team the Habs need at least 3 good puck-moving, productive PP guys, right now it's Markov, Subban and Diaz. Unless a guy like Beaulieu, Dietz, Thrower or Nygren show he's NHL ready or Emelin get consistent on his puck-moving skills, then Diaz is a need. While I want a bigger meaner D squad, it would mean we get a good pp/puck moving guy that is big, play physical and good defensively and thoses guys come at a ridiculous price. If Gorges continue to struggle he's the man I would trade and try to get a mean defensive top 4 guy like Orpik, Methot, Coburn, Schenn, Dillon, Stuart, Gryba etc.

At the end of the season without injuries :

Orpik (only an example I know he will not be available)-Subban
Markov-Emelin
Tinordi-Diaz
Bouillon/Drewiske

Diaz isn't the problem in this team.

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07-28-2013, 08:02 PM
  #224
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Diaz isn't the problem with this team but when Beaulieu emerges we have a decision to make. For the near future I would rather have the general.

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07-28-2013, 08:28 PM
  #225
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Originally Posted by clarke19 View Post
15-10 doesn't get you to 2nd in the East.

15-10 might not even get you to the playoffs from now on.
15 wins out of 25 games is a 60% winning percentage.

.6 x 82 games equals 49 wins.

The last full season in the NHL, 2012, the Rangers and Penguins had 51 wins. Next was Boston with 49 wins.

The facts dont back up your argument. In fact, reality shows that the Habs do not need Diaz. They need more physicality on the backend.

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