HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Dave Nonis early criticism..

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-28-2013, 11:16 AM
  #26
lLeafer
Registered User
 
lLeafer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 228
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anth93 View Post
Well that's just silly and full of hyperbole. I'd sign Kessel to an 8 million dollar cap hit YESTERDAY. Phaneuf will walk because we simply can't afford him.
Yeah, that wasn't to be taken seriously. Should have added a sarcasm emoticon I suppose. Just find it amusing that if Cody Franson goes it's the end of the world. But, if we trade someone to make cap room and pay him 4+ million like he's asking, he'll be an overpaid bum. You just can't win.

lLeafer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 11:17 AM
  #27
The Legend
GW
 
The Legend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,653
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by lLeafer View Post
Ok, so were overvaluing Franson now because he might be gone? I have a hard time keeping up with whose amazing and whose terrible. Phil Kessel? we're gonna overpay that bum! What a **** hockey player! Phaneuf shouldn't even be in the league!! Waive the bum. Wait, CODY "JESUS" FRANSON MIGHT BE GONE?? OMG HE'S NORRIS MATERIAL! He led the our D in scoring amongst the likes of Mike Kostka, Korbinian Holzer, Mark Fraser, Carl Gunnarson and Ryan O'Byrne, all offensive juggarnauts! And we're gonna trade him?!?! Woe is me! Tank the season!
Reasonable post

The Legend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 11:17 AM
  #28
Havoc
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 292
vCash: 500
Let's not forget that people are incorrect when they say we only have so-and-so amount to sign Kadri and Franson.

The real statement is, we have X amount to sign KADRI. Kadri is the true cornerstone left to be signed and if we single him out, we have the cap room/ Franson isn't a Kessel with respects to being replaced. It is absurd to blow this out of proportion. Look at the big picture here plus the fact RFA's cannot just leave. Franson will be a Leaf next year if the contract is reasonable. I am confident cap room will be made especially considering the fact you are allowed to go over the cap for a small period of time.

What else?

Havoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 11:17 AM
  #29
Mess
Global Moderator
 
Mess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 69,180
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anth93 View Post
You don't sign unnecessary contracts that hinder your chances at locking up core pieces. It's crazy/ridiculous and everyone knows it.
Inherited bad contracts is the problem not current spending!!!!.

If Nonis doesn't buyout Komisarek and Grabovski the 2 highest bad contracts = $10 mil combined recaptured cap space then Leafs would have had -$4 mil at present to resign Kadri, Franson and Fraser. (other things remaining the same)

If Liles a #7 Dman wasn't occupying $3.8 mil there would also be no cap concern to resign the current RFAs. Could have used a 3rd compliance buyout to rid the team of this mistake.

Cap dropped by over $6 mil and that meant the Connolly and MacArthur UFA had to walk away and not replaced to address the league lowering the ceiling.

If Nonis buys out Grabovski in order to afford Bozak raise in part, and if he doesn't resign Bozzie, then Leafs enter this season with Kadri, Bolland, McClement and Colborne as its 4 centers .. Good luck making the playoffs with that as your center ice group. Whereas keeping Grabs ($5.5 mil) and letting Bozak walk ($4.2 mil) would have eaten away an additional $1.3 mil to sign current RFAs.

Armstrong and Tucker's buyouts are on the books also because of more past GM mistakes and corrections.

The only issue anyone could have with Nonis is to debate the Clarkson signing.. But in that regard he is a Toronto boy, adds much needed size and grit, experience and leadership to the top 6/9 forwards.. He was who hockey experts considered the most coveted\top available UFA this summer.. Which is different than past years where the GM went out and spent big $ on 2nd rate UFA ie Connolly, Komisarek, etc with little help.

Nonis was handed a poor hand by the previous GM and is using all CBA available options to do the best he can to move the team forward, in his opinion. Whether that happens as he hopes is yet to be determined, but that criticism for failure would first need to play itself out to see what happens.

__________________
---------------------------------------------------
Signature: “If you think there’s no pain coming, there’s pain coming,”.. Mike Babcock
---------------------------------------------------

Last edited by Mess: 07-28-2013 at 11:24 AM.
Mess is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 11:18 AM
  #30
notdoneyet
Registered User
 
notdoneyet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Saint John,N.B.
Posts: 2,220
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anth93 View Post
He is a great dman. His minutes/effectiveness/role was on a steady rise from January to May.

It doesn't matter if you don't think he's going to be better than he is, that's not the point. The point is we have absolutely no chance to sign the guy given our current cap problems. As a young RFA who just played as well as Franson did last year, the priority should always be to sign the guy.

If Franson simply doesn't want to play here or is actually asking for 4+ million.. Then yes I'll eat my words, but there's absolutely no reason to suggest either.
but agian I just gave you a scenario where we can buyout liles and have 4M to sign each of kadri and Franson - so really there is no cap issue - so your arguement that there is now is non existent.

notdoneyet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 11:20 AM
  #31
Riellyfan04
Registered User
 
Riellyfan04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Toronto On
Country: Albania
Posts: 2,731
vCash: 500
The season doesnt start in montj n half and people are already panicking. like holy relax we have enough time to free up cap n sign kadri n franson.. why are ppl acting like we have couple days left to sign these guys??? and if franson wants a lot he can go n we got enough young guys to step in.

Riellyfan04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 04:47 PM
  #32
Dangles McGavin
RIP Lounge
 
Dangles McGavin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Oakville
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,426
vCash: 500


Our team is WAY better right now than it was at the end of last season.

Ranger >= Fraser
Bolland > Grabovski
Bernier > Scrivens && Bernier == Reimer
Clarkson > MacArthur, especially considering the team's identity (I'm still a big Clarkie fan though)

Kadri will be back 100% for sure. I think Franson will be too. How come St. Louis fans aren't losing their minds over Pietro not being signed.

Cap is predicted to go up next season. There will probably be some fairly big changes between now and then, though (only one of Bernier/Reimer will be here, wouldn't be shocked if Dion was gone {not that I want this, Bolland might come cheaper than his current contract, Liles will be gone -- ALL IMO -- ).

Don't crucify Nonis just yet. I think he's done a fantastic job.

Dangles McGavin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 04:51 PM
  #33
Tak7
Registered User
 
Tak7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: GTA or the UK
Posts: 8,420
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anth93 View Post
You don't sign unnecessary contracts that hinder your chances at locking up core pieces. It's crazy/ridiculous and everyone knows it.
This.

Even those that are massive Nonis fans can't argue against this

Tak7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 04:53 PM
  #34
Duke Silver
Truce?
 
Duke Silver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Toronto/St. John's
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,274
vCash: 500
Leafs Nation: Desperately searching for something to complain about since 1967.

Duke Silver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 05:05 PM
  #35
Tak7
Registered User
 
Tak7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: GTA or the UK
Posts: 8,420
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke Silver View Post
Leafs Nation: Desperately searching for something to complain about since 1967.
Constantly analysing and critiquing your team is apart of being a fan.

It's not a full-stop thing. It's not a right-time thing.

And if the fan-base is unanimously complaining about something, chances are it's because the organization likely did something wrong.

Like spend a lot of money on free agents when it should have focused on securing it's young core. You know - like good teams around the league normally do?

Tak7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 05:16 PM
  #36
BiggestLeafsFanEVER*
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,431
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anth93 View Post
You don't sign unnecessary contracts that hinder your chances at locking up core pieces. It's crazy/ridiculous and everyone knows it.
I agree with this.

I don't think Nonis has handled this very well and am worried we're going to run into a problem re-signing both players.

I'm also worried that this is going to delay our ability to re-sign Kessel and make it harder to re-sign Phaneuf in the long run.

BiggestLeafsFanEVER* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 05:18 PM
  #37
Tak7
Registered User
 
Tak7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: GTA or the UK
Posts: 8,420
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatestLeafsFanEVER View Post
I agree with this.

I don't think Nonis has handled this very well and am worried we're going to run into a problem re-signing both players.

I'm also worried that this is going to delay our ability to re-sign Kessel and make it harder to re-sign Phaneuf in the long run.
Not a bad thing

Tak7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 05:21 PM
  #38
BiggestLeafsFanEVER*
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,431
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak7 View Post
Not a bad thing
You might be very right. But if we don't re-sign him it should be because we don't want to. Not because we're priced out by a cap crunch.

BiggestLeafsFanEVER* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 05:38 PM
  #39
Duke Silver
Truce?
 
Duke Silver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Toronto/St. John's
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,274
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak7 View Post
Constantly analysing and critiquing your team is apart of being a fan.

It's not a full-stop thing. It's not a right-time thing.

And if the fan-base is unanimously complaining about something, chances are it's because the organization likely did something wrong.

Like spend a lot of money on free agents when it should have focused on securing it's young core. You know - like good teams around the league normally do?
More like over-analyzing.

You act as if Nonis and the rest of Leafs management can't think ahead 2-3 months at a time.

Every single team in the league typically leaves the re-signing of RFAs until after the UFA period begins. Go around the league and most teams have a significant RFA unsigned at the moment, after having splurged on free agents.

I'm sure Nonis has a plan in place. He isn't blindly throwing money around. He knew that signing Bozak and Clarkson would make things tight, but he has plenty of time and options to make it work.

You guys are inventing a problem here. We're 7 weeks from training camp and 10 weeks from the start of the season. There's plenty of time to get things done and manoeuvre our way under the cap before the games start.

It's funny, most of the amateur capologists here who are complaining about our cap crunch are probably the same ones who would lament when Burke wouldn't pony up money for free agents.

Stop panicking about something that isn't an issue yet.

Duke Silver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 05:58 PM
  #40
eyeball11
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 14,136
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Inherited bad contracts is the problem not current spending!!!!.

If Nonis doesn't buyout Komisarek and Grabovski the 2 highest bad contracts = $10 mil combined recaptured cap space then Leafs would have had -$4 mil at present to resign Kadri, Franson and Fraser. (other things remaining the same)

If Liles a #7 Dman wasn't occupying $3.8 mil there would also be no cap concern to resign the current RFAs. Could have used a 3rd compliance buyout to rid the team of this mistake.

Cap dropped by over $6 mil and that meant the Connolly and MacArthur UFA had to walk away and not replaced to address the league lowering the ceiling.

If Nonis buys out Grabovski in order to afford Bozak raise in part, and if he doesn't resign Bozzie, then Leafs enter this season with Kadri, Bolland, McClement and Colborne as its 4 centers .. Good luck making the playoffs with that as your center ice group. Whereas keeping Grabs ($5.5 mil) and letting Bozak walk ($4.2 mil) would have eaten away an additional $1.3 mil to sign current RFAs.

Armstrong and Tucker's buyouts are on the books also because of more past GM mistakes and corrections.

The only issue anyone could have with Nonis is to debate the Clarkson signing.. But in that regard he is a Toronto boy, adds much needed size and grit, experience and leadership to the top 6/9 forwards.. He was who hockey experts considered the most coveted\top available UFA this summer.. Which is different than past years where the GM went out and spent big $ on 2nd rate UFA ie Connolly, Komisarek, etc with little help.

Nonis was handed a poor hand by the previous GM and is using all CBA available options to do the best he can to move the team forward, in his opinion. Whether that happens as he hopes is yet to be determined, but that criticism for failure would first need to play itself out to see what happens.


Guess who missed the longest contract in Leaf history?

By the by, does your last sentence apply to Grabovski?

eyeball11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 06:03 PM
  #41
KuleminFan41
Registered User
 
KuleminFan41's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Country: Portugal
Posts: 5,163
vCash: 500
With the way the team is situated at D, we don't need to sign Franson and Fraser. The guy you'd want back is Franson, you can replace Fraser easier imo. Kadri won't be getting 5m or even 4. I can see Kadri getting 3 and if anything Franson getting 4 but some space needs to be made.

KuleminFan41 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 06:09 PM
  #42
LeafOfBread
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Mississauga, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,107
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke Silver View Post
More like over-analyzing.

You act as if Nonis and the rest of Leafs management can't think ahead 2-3 months at a time.

Every single team in the league typically leaves the re-signing of RFAs until after the UFA period begins. Go around the league and most teams have a significant RFA unsigned at the moment, after having splurged on free agents.

I'm sure Nonis has a plan in place. He isn't blindly throwing money around. He knew that signing Bozak and Clarkson would make things tight, but he has plenty of time and options to make it work.

You guys are inventing a problem here. We're 7 weeks from training camp and 10 weeks from the start of the season. There's plenty of time to get things done and manoeuvre our way under the cap before the games start.

It's funny, most of the amateur capologists here who are complaining about our cap crunch are probably the same ones who would lament when Burke wouldn't pony up money for free agents.

Stop panicking about something that isn't an issue yet.
Have to agree with this.

While I'm not necessarily thrilled with how things have been handled, I don't think Nonis is an idiot, give the man some credit, he's had a big hand in many moves that have built the core of this team, I'm sure he has a plan and doesn't just plan on blindly throwing money around.

I get that you're frustrated about Cody Franson and Nazem Kadri, but Kadri wants to be here while Franson does too but Franson apparently has ridiculous demands to begin with. Franson has never been an easy guy to sign and will likely keep holding out until he decides to be more reasonable, he did the same thing with Brian Burke.

I would understand if this thread was made after we officially lost Cody Franson and Kadri, but that is not the case.

This thread will look extremely stupid if both Kadri and Franson are signed come fall. What will you say then?

It's not even August ffs. If October is coming and these guys still aren't signed, then yes we have a problem. But at least wait until the season starts before you complain.

LeafOfBread is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 06:10 PM
  #43
Tak7
Registered User
 
Tak7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: GTA or the UK
Posts: 8,420
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KuleminFan41 View Post
With the way the team is situated at D, we don't need to sign Franson and Fraser. The guy you'd want back is Franson, you can replace Fraser easier imo. Kadri won't be getting 5m or even 4. I can see Kadri getting 3 and if anything Franson getting 4 but some space needs to be made.

Tak7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 06:12 PM
  #44
KuleminFan41
Registered User
 
KuleminFan41's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Country: Portugal
Posts: 5,163
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak7 View Post
Taken out of context, what I was meaning was that you only need 1 of them not both. As you can see by me saying Franson could get 4m

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke Silver View Post
Leafs Nation: Desperately searching for something to complain about since 1967.
The Leafs could win the cup and people would complain about it

KuleminFan41 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 06:17 PM
  #45
Tak7
Registered User
 
Tak7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: GTA or the UK
Posts: 8,420
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke Silver View Post
More like over-analyzing.

You act as if Nonis and the rest of Leafs management can't think ahead 2-3 months at a time.
Have you not watched this team at all since the 70s?

Ballard?

JFJ?

Burke?

Tak7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 06:17 PM
  #46
Tak7
Registered User
 
Tak7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: GTA or the UK
Posts: 8,420
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KuleminFan41 View Post
Taken out of context, what I was meaning was that you only need 1 of them not both. As you can see by me saying Franson could get 4m
Apologies - read on, you make a good point.

Has to be Franson.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KuleminFan41 View Post
The Leafs could win the cup and people would complain about it
This is so true it's painful

Tak7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 06:18 PM
  #47
LeafOfBread
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Mississauga, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 13,107
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak7 View Post
Have you not watched this team at all since the 70s?

Ballard?

JFJ?

Burke?
Ballard and JFJ have nothing to do with the modern day Leafs. Burke's pieces went to the playoffs this year. Burke's problem was not keeping his mouth shut and not firing Wilson soon enough, but outside of that most of his moves were good.

Even the one move that was criticized the most, the Kessel trade, looks good now. Seguin is a d-bag who couldn't keep his act together and got publicly shamed by the organization then shipped off to Dallas, meanwhile Kessel has taken many strides in becoming a truly marquee player.

LeafOfBread is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 07:44 PM
  #48
My Sweet Shadow
Registered User
 
My Sweet Shadow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Sioux Lookout, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,667
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anth93 View Post
Let's discuss an obvious issue,

The Leafs currently have $6.1 million in cap space. Let's make the assumption that Trevor Smith isn't on the roster and Joe Colborne is our 3rd line winger (I know it's unlikely, but he's cheap). Now that leaves $6.7 million.

Kadri, Franson and Fraser are all RFA's. $6.7 million to sign these three.

Fraser is asking for $2.0 in arb, the Leafs counter with $.855. Usually they meet halfway so let's assume that Fraser gets $1.427.

Kadri and Franson left. $5.293 million to get them signed. That's $2.64 million A PIECE.

Now ask yourself, how do you feel that our general manager/front office put a larger emphasis on our 6th and 7th best forwards (Bozak/Clarkson), than our 2nd highest scoring forward and highest scoring defenseman. Now lots of people seem to think that the Leafs decided Franson was in over his head and it's a great time to sell high on him, even if that's the case.. We didn't give ourselves the opportunity to sign him.

if one of McLaren/Orr don't get resigned and Bozak walks.. We could have signed these guys without any hesitation. Am I the only one who thinks he's watching our front office piss away cap space right before our eyes? What a terrible display of cap management by the Maple Leafs.
JVR - Kadri - Kessel
Lupul - Grabovski - Kulemin
Colborne - Bolland - McClement
McLaren - Smith - Orr

So we save $3.4M vs. our current roster. Even signing Franson isn't going to make that a competitive roster...especially if Kadri falters in his 2nd full season or Grabovski fails to rebound.

My Sweet Shadow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 07:51 PM
  #49
Warden of the North
Global Moderator
hmmmmmmm
 
Warden of the North's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Muskoka
Country: Canada
Posts: 26,239
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anth93 View Post
You don't sign unnecessary contracts that hinder your chances at locking up core pieces. It's crazy/ridiculous and everyone knows it.
Im going to assume that Nonis considers Clarkson and Bozak to be core pieces. Who knows how he considers Franson. Also, we still have 50ish days until training camp. Calm down a bit.

Warden of the North is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-28-2013, 07:52 PM
  #50
colchar
Registered User
 
colchar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,224
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anth93 View Post
You don't sign unnecessary contracts that hinder your chances at locking up core pieces. It's crazy/ridiculous and everyone knows it.
So, based on your vast amount of experience as an NHL GM, what moves would you have made this summer?

colchar is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:34 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2016 All Rights Reserved.