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2013 Philadelphia Phillies (MLB): Charlie Manuel has been fired (Aug. 16)

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Old
07-27-2013, 09:46 PM
  #326
sobrien
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Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/0...cliff-lee.html



I fully expect Chase/Lee/Young/Ruiz/Paps to be out of here by the end of the deadline(maybe not all, but a majority). I wonder what teams would be desperate for Lee. Boston/Texas/St Louis?

Boston you would think we would want their young outfielder coming back(Bradley I believe) The other teams, I don't know anything about their farm systems, as I have not followed baseball as much in recent years.

Also

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/0...ael-young.html
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Originally Posted by Justified View Post
coming into the year St. Louis had the best farm system according to Baseball America and the Red Sox were 6th. I think they could get a good return from the Dodgers for either Utley or Lee. Papelbon will be hard to trade.


http://www.baseballamerica.com/minor...rankings-list/

If Lee goes to the Red Sox, I'd be alright with Bogaerts as the lone returning player.

St. Louis' pitching prospects are ridiculous. I'd be surprised if they look for a guy like Lee because of that.

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07-27-2013, 10:05 PM
  #327
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I don't see why the Cards would trade for Lee. They have Wainwright, Lynn, Miller, and Westbrook. Adding Lee would help but it just seems unnecessary.

I wouldn't have a problem with it though. As long as the return is good.

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07-28-2013, 07:48 AM
  #328
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The Orioles are looking at Peavy. Rube needs to get a bidding war going. There is no way Lee gets moved at the deadline for anything less than a kings ransom. He's a Cy Young caliber pitcher, and if the Phils have to eat a little salary to get it done then that's what they need to do.

I hate the idea of him going to the Red Sox, but Bogaerts is a beast and the guy that should be coming back. Honestly with him and Franco, if he's the real deal, the infield would be very solid, and then you hopefully add Crawford into the mix.

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07-28-2013, 11:13 AM
  #329
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If Lee goes to the Red Sox, I'd be alright with Bogaerts as the lone returning player.

St. Louis' pitching prospects are ridiculous. I'd be surprised if they look for a guy like Lee because of that.
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Originally Posted by Protest View Post
The Orioles are looking at Peavy. Rube needs to get a bidding war going. There is no way Lee gets moved at the deadline for anything less than a kings ransom. He's a Cy Young caliber pitcher, and if the Phils have to eat a little salary to get it done then that's what they need to do.

I hate the idea of him going to the Red Sox, but Bogaerts is a beast and the guy that should be coming back. Honestly with him and Franco, if he's the real deal, the infield would be very solid, and then you hopefully add Crawford into the mix.
Bogaerts is the player they should ask for and rightfully so, but how many gm's would trade a power hitting ss for a 35 year old pitcher? He is tearing up AAA right now, but if they were to acquire him that would lead to another problem. How do you get rid of Rollins? Nobody wants him. But I guess that would be a good problem if they were to get Bogaerts.

Im excited about Franco. He is on fire at Reading . Doesnt walk often but also doesnt K. I would hope were to if Young were to get traded they would call Asche up for the remainder of the year.

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Old
07-28-2013, 12:31 PM
  #330
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I'm going to touch on a few points but not use the multi quote feature so forgive me.


With all the Franco talk, you can't just move him to AAA without doing something with Asche. He's on fire at AAA, and is batting around .300. They both play 3B. I think Asche could potentially come up and surprise a few who are forgetting about him with the Franco-boner.

I'm in the boat of moving Papelbon[DET?] / Rollins [ ? ] / Ruiz [ Yankees? ] / Young [ Would he actually be open to going back to Texas, after the way they treated him?]

I'm on the fence about moving Utley, I really like Chase and I'm in the boat of trading him for a legit offer not the garbage random long shot prospect of long shot reliever, it just does nothing for me for a player like Utley.

I think we should also move Delmon Young for anyone who will take him.

Peavy probably comes cheaper than Lee would cost in a trade, especially to someone like Baltimore. With Peavy's injury history factored in.

For Lee? I want a king's ransom. Not just one highly touted prospect, call me nuts but I feel we can get two with the right teams bidding on him.

Jackie Bradley Jr. + Xander Bogaerts are two names from Boston I like. They have a few pitchers I also like as well, Webster[though he has struggled], and then there's Ranaudo.

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07-28-2013, 12:45 PM
  #331
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Originally Posted by Sh0otnSc0re View Post
With all the Franco talk, you can't just move him to AAA without doing something with Asche. He's on fire at AAA, and is batting around .300. They both play 3B. I think Asche could potentially come up and surprise a few who are forgetting about him with the Franco-boner.
Well if you move Michael Young problem solved. Asche was already on the cusp of being a call-up to begin with. It's not uncommon for top prospects to move up the leagues through out the year. If Franco keeps it up there's no sense in keeping him at the AA level hitting close to .400.

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07-28-2013, 01:20 PM
  #332
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If the Brewers got Segura for Greinke, we should have no problem getting Bogaerts from the Red Sox or any other top prospect for Lee.

EDIT: As long as we eat some salary.


Last edited by The Couturier Effect: 07-28-2013 at 01:33 PM.
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07-28-2013, 01:23 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by Sh0otnSc0re View Post
I'm going to touch on a few points but not use the multi quote feature so forgive me.


With all the Franco talk, you can't just move him to AAA without doing something with Asche. He's on fire at AAA, and is batting around .300. They both play 3B. I think Asche could potentially come up and surprise a few who are forgetting about him with the Franco-boner.

I'm in the boat of moving Papelbon[DET?] / Rollins [ ? ] / Ruiz [ Yankees? ] / Young [ Would he actually be open to going back to Texas, after the way they treated him?]

I'm on the fence about moving Utley, I really like Chase and I'm in the boat of trading him for a legit offer not the garbage random long shot prospect of long shot reliever, it just does nothing for me for a player like Utley.

I think we should also move Delmon Young for anyone who will take him.

Peavy probably comes cheaper than Lee would cost in a trade, especially to someone like Baltimore. With Peavy's injury history factored in.

For Lee? I want a king's ransom. Not just one highly touted prospect, call me nuts but I feel we can get two with the right teams bidding on him.

Jackie Bradley Jr. + Xander Bogaerts are two names from Boston I like. They have a few pitchers I also like as well, Webster[though he has struggled], and then there's Ranaudo.
I'm not gonna lie, I don't really follow the Phillies prospects a whole lot but I'm surprised by the bold above. I was under the impression that Cody was an avg hitter with below avg power yet he keeps on hitting for a high avg. He's also on a better pace this year for homers then any other yr, in a higher class.

Since the Phils obviously aren't going anywhere I would very much like for them to give Asche a call. It also give them the opportunity to promote Franco and hopefully trade Young for something.

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07-28-2013, 01:47 PM
  #334
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Originally Posted by Justified View Post
Bogaerts is the player they should ask for and rightfully so, but how many gm's would trade a power hitting ss for a 35 year old pitcher? He is tearing up AAA right now, but if they were to acquire him that would lead to another problem. How do you get rid of Rollins? Nobody wants him. But I guess that would be a good problem if they were to get Bogaerts.

Im excited about Franco. He is on fire at Reading . Doesnt walk often but also doesnt K. I would hope were to if Young were to get traded they would call Asche up for the remainder of the year.
Thee Brewers traded their top prospect, a top 25 prospect in baseball, as well as a couple others for a couple months of CC. I know he was much younger than Lee is now, but its still like a handful of games versus a couple potentially very productive years.

Greinke, again was younger than Lee, but was also a rental and not as good a player. He got the Angels top prospect.

If Lee's made available, which apparently he wasn't then was and now isn't again, he's by far the best player available and the best pitcher available at the deadline since...well himself.

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07-28-2013, 02:16 PM
  #335
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Peavy has been traded, but no one knows to where yet. He cleared out his locker.

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07-28-2013, 02:25 PM
  #336
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Wow, worst half inning ever? Still only 1 out.

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07-28-2013, 02:32 PM
  #337
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Originally Posted by Protest View Post
Thee Brewers traded their top prospect, a top 25 prospect in baseball, as well as a couple others for a couple months of CC. I know he was much younger than Lee is now, but its still like a handful of games versus a couple potentially very productive years.

Greinke, again was younger than Lee, but was also a rental and not as good a player. He got the Angels top prospect.

If Lee's made available, which apparently he wasn't then was and now isn't again, he's by far the best player available and the best pitcher available at the deadline since...well himself.
That situation is different though. They hadnt made the playoffs in 26 years and they got a draft pick for CC after he left.

Segura while is a really good player, is not projected to be what Bogaerts is. I think Segura was ranked in the 50's by Baseball America pre 2012. Bogaerts was #8 this year. I just dont think Lee would be able to fetch Bogaerts in a trade (not saying he doesnt deserve too though).

Look at what Amaro got for Lee last time when he 4 years younger and at 1/3 of the cost now, 2 pitchers who cant find the zone and a CF who has had drug problems who cant even crack a terrible mlb roster. If Amaro could get Bogaerts my view of him would go up.

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07-28-2013, 02:35 PM
  #338
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Wow, worst half inning ever? Still only 1 out.
8 unearned runs in one inning

that was the most embarrssing display of baseball ive ever seen

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07-28-2013, 02:49 PM
  #339
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8 unearned runs in one inning

that was the most embarrssing display of baseball ive ever seen
They were all unearned? I just saw the update on my computer, but missed the actual game.

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07-28-2013, 02:51 PM
  #340
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That situation is different though. They hadnt made the playoffs in 26 years and they got a draft pick for CC after he left.

Segura while is a really good player, is not projected to be what Bogaerts is. I think Segura was ranked in the 50's by Baseball America pre 2012. Bogaerts was #8 this year. I just dont think Lee would be able to fetch Bogaerts in a trade (not saying he doesnt deserve too though).

Look at what Amaro got for Lee last time when he 4 years younger and at 1/3 of the cost now, 2 pitchers who cant find the zone and a CF who has had drug problems who cant even crack a terrible mlb roster. If Amaro could get Bogaerts my view of him would go up.
I have zero confidence in Amaro to rebuild this team. The best thing that could happen would be shipping out the two Youngs now for whatever they could get then fire Amaro in the offseason. Name Ryno the new manager and trade Rollins, Lee and Ruiz when someone with a brain is named GM. Re-sign Utley (I think he's a good mentor), bring up Asche, keep Ruff and Gonzalez (when he gets here) up and hope that Howard can be respectable again as no one at this point would want that contract. Hopefully pieces from any trades, like a Bogaerts, could help fill some holes in the very near future.

If only Homer were GM of the Phillies too, he knows how to rebuild on the fly .

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07-28-2013, 02:53 PM
  #341
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They were all unearned? I just saw the update on my computer, but missed the actual game.
Yes, score is currently 12-3 with only 4ER

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07-28-2013, 02:59 PM
  #342
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Yes, score is currently 12-3 with only 4ER
That's flat out embarrassing.

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07-28-2013, 05:07 PM
  #343
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That situation is different though. They hadnt made the playoffs in 26 years and they got a draft pick for CC after he left.

Segura while is a really good player, is not projected to be what Bogaerts is. I think Segura was ranked in the 50's by Baseball America pre 2012. Bogaerts was #8 this year. I just dont think Lee would be able to fetch Bogaerts in a trade (not saying he doesnt deserve too though).

Look at what Amaro got for Lee last time when he 4 years younger and at 1/3 of the cost now, 2 pitchers who cant find the zone and a CF who has had drug problems who cant even crack a terrible mlb roster. If Amaro could get Bogaerts my view of him would go up.
That's true, but Lee has more value than CC had if the Phils send money along with him. He's not a rental, he's a Cy Young candidate, and he has shown no signs of slowing down likely to not throwing a ton of innings thus far in his career.

The value the Phils got for Lee was horrible, and was considered bad at the time the deal went down. Amaro traded him for 18 and 20 year old pitchers, something you just do not do when selling off a high end talent. It was also not at the trade deadline when demand is higher and returns are their best.

The Phils traded 4 of their top 10 prospects for him at the deadline in '09 and they did that because the price was not as steep as the one for Halladay. That's the kind of return he should be getting. But I have no faith in Amaro to not **** it up again and take 18 year old prospects instead of guys ready to make the jump.

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07-28-2013, 07:06 PM
  #344
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We really need to blow this thing up. The only players I would keep are Domonic Brown and Cole Hamels (although if an insane, outrageous offer came along, I wouldn't mind letting them go). Trade Utley (), Michael Young, Cliff Lee (), and see if there any takers (although doubtful) for Papelbon, Delmon Young, Ruiz and Rollins (and Howard, of course haha).


Wouldn't it be fantastic if we could unload Howard somewhere? I think i'd do a backflip

Also, not too familiar with the top farm systems/top prospects throughout minor league baseball. Any particular names we ought to be gunning for if we trade Cliff/Chase/Young?

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07-28-2013, 07:17 PM
  #345
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We really need to blow this thing up. The only players I would keep are Domonic Brown and Cole Hamels (although if an insane, outrageous offer came along, I wouldn't mind letting them go). Trade Utley (), Michael Young, Cliff Lee (), and see if there any takers (although doubtful) for Papelbon, Delmon Young, Ruiz and Rollins (and Howard, of course haha).


Wouldn't it be fantastic if we could unload Howard somewhere? I think i'd do a backflip

Also, not too familiar with the top farm systems/top prospects throughout minor league baseball. Any particular names we ought to be gunning for if we trade Cliff/Chase/Young?
We're married to Howard for a while with that contract. I guess we could hope towards the end of it he plays well it could be tradeable to an AL team looking for a DH with us eating most of the salary (I'm looking at the final year there). I don't see it happening but one could hope, just an all around bad contract by Ruben.

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07-28-2013, 07:19 PM
  #346
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I have zero confidence in Amaro to rebuild this team. The best thing that could happen would be shipping out the two Youngs now for whatever they could get then fire Amaro in the offseason. Name Ryno the new manager and trade Rollins, Lee and Ruiz when someone with a brain is named GM. Re-sign Utley (I think he's a good mentor), bring up Asche, keep Ruff and Gonzalez (when he gets here) up and hope that Howard can be respectable again as no one at this point would want that contract. Hopefully pieces from any trades, like a Bogaerts, could help fill some holes in the very near future.

If only Homer were GM of the Phillies too, he knows how to rebuild on the fly .
I have no confidence either. He is by far the worst GM in baseball. Such a clown. The only good thing is if the rest of the season is like the past week, he will be on the hot seat in 2014. Then he will probably get canned. Cant wait.

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That's true, but Lee has more value than CC had if the Phils send money along with him. He's not a rental, he's a Cy Young candidate, and he has shown no signs of slowing down likely to not throwing a ton of innings thus far in his career.

The value the Phils got for Lee was horrible, and was considered bad at the time the deal went down. Amaro traded him for 18 and 20 year old pitchers, something you just do not do when selling off a high end talent. It was also not at the trade deadline when demand is higher and returns are their best.

The Phils traded 4 of their top 10 prospects for him at the deadline in '09 and they did that because the price was not as steep as the one for Halladay. That's the kind of return he should be getting. But I have no faith in Amaro to not **** it up again and take 18 year old prospects instead of guys ready to make the jump.
If the were trade him, I would at least want one major league ready player. Preferably an OF. But Amaro is a clown and I dont understand how as the reports are saying wont trade Lee now. He is about to be 35. Here is an article what our clown closer had to say about our clown GM. The sooner both of them out the better...

http://philadelphia.phillies.mlb.com...k_phi&c_id=phi

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Old
07-28-2013, 07:25 PM
  #347
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Bogaerts is the player they should ask for and rightfully so, but how many gm's would trade a power hitting ss for a 35 year old pitcher? He is tearing up AAA right now, but if they were to acquire him that would lead to another problem. How do you get rid of Rollins? Nobody wants him. But I guess that would be a good problem if they were to get Bogaerts.

Im excited about Franco. He is on fire at Reading . Doesnt walk often but also doesnt K. I would hope were to if Young were to get traded they would call Asche up for the remainder of the year.
Apparently the Tigers may be interested in Rollins if Peralta gets nailed in the Biogenesis case

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07-28-2013, 07:30 PM
  #348
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I have no confidence either. He is by far the worst GM in baseball. Such a clown. The only good thing is if the rest of the season is like the past week, he will be on the hot seat in 2014. Then he will probably get canned. Cant wait.
If the reports are accurate that this new tv deal will be possibly north of $5B it would be in their best interest to bring in someone who knows what they're actually doing, giving that moron a bigger checkbook has disaster written all over it. We'll be fielding a team full of Ryan Howard's under his watch in no time.


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07-28-2013, 07:34 PM
  #349
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Apparently the Tigers may be interested in Rollins if Peralta gets nailed in the Biogenesis case
unfortunately it seems like Jimmy is being very selfish and wont waive his 10/5 rights.

Quote:
"There are still a couple things I would like to be number one on the lists of in this organization," Rollins said, "so until those things are done, I'm not going anywhere."
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/p...de-clause.html

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07-28-2013, 07:37 PM
  #350
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unfortunately it seems like Jimmy is being very selfish and wont waive his 10/5 rights.



http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/p...de-clause.html
Can't call him selfish for not wanting to be traded.

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