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Old
07-28-2013, 08:07 AM
  #51
Psuhockey
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Bogosian has been injury prone and inconsistent. He has a ton of talent, but has not shown it with regularly to demand a huge trade package. Throw in the fact that his is a UFA in two seasons and will be making bank, he isn't worth what will be asked of him. If the arbitrators give him a two year contract, I would try to trade for him next offseason when he only has a year on his contract before free agency and Winnipeg would be stupid not to trade him.

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07-28-2013, 08:17 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
Bogosian has been injury prone and inconsistent. He has a ton of talent, but has not shown it with regularly to demand a huge trade package. Throw in the fact that his is a UFA in two seasons and will be making bank, he isn't worth what will be asked of him. If the arbitrators give him a two year contract, I would try to trade for him next offseason when he only has a year on his contract before free agency and Winnipeg would be stupid not to trade him.
I don't believe the arbitrators can give him anything but a 1 year contract.

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07-28-2013, 09:40 AM
  #53
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I don't believe the arbitrators can give him anything but a 1 year contract.
Pretty sure in arbitration you can choose either a one year deal or two year deal. If he takes the two year deal, he almost undoubtedly be a UFA and will test the market. Almost always ends up that way, or he is traded.

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07-28-2013, 10:59 AM
  #54
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Who do you suggest we get?
With Luke and Grossmann we have grit. Need more offense. Would cost less to get someone like Cody Franson off the Leafs, for example. Big RHS with more offense than Bogosian but not as tough. 2nd pick plus mid-level prospect, maybe?

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07-28-2013, 12:28 PM
  #55
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I'm not saying I wouldn't want him but the cost to acquire him would be astronomically out of my price range. He's massively overrated by these boards and even more so by his teams fan base.
You sound exactly like very non-Flyers fan commenting about Schenn or Couturier.

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07-28-2013, 01:25 PM
  #56
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You sound exactly like very non-Flyers fan commenting about Schenn or Couturier.
It's probably true about them as well. I don't think we should trade either one.

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07-28-2013, 02:47 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
With Luke and Grossmann we have grit. Need more offense. Would cost less to get someone like Cody Franson off the Leafs, for example. Big RHS with more offense than Bogosian but not as tough. 2nd pick plus mid-level prospect, maybe?
Sounds good to me, we do need a Kimmo replacement (NOT saying that is Bogosian). Could that be Franson? Don't watch him much.

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It's probably true about them as well. I don't think we should trade either one.
I also don't want to either, but it may become necessary.

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07-28-2013, 02:52 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Larry44 View Post
With Luke and Grossmann we have grit. Need more offense. Would cost less to get someone like Cody Franson off the Leafs, for example. Big RHS with more offense than Bogosian but not as tough. 2nd pick plus mid-level prospect, maybe?
In addition to Schenn and Grossmann, Lauridsen had a solid audition at the end of last season and will add more grit over the next couple of years, as will Morin when he’s ready.

It’s difficult to agree that Bogosian is tougher from a durability standpoint, as he’s missed almost 80 games due to various injuries (leg, hand, shoulder, knee, wrist, etc.) over the past five seasons. Given the Flyers’ excessive amount of man games lost to injury on the blue line over the past couple of years, signing another expensive, injury-prone defenseman to a long-term contract is the last thing they need.

Franson actually averaged more hits per game than Bogosian last season, and took it up another notch in the playoffs. Dreger suggested a prospect and a draft pick as a possible return for Franson. Ontario native Tye McGinn played on Giroux’s line for a few games last season, but is buried on a depth chart loaded with left handed shooters. Given the Leafs’ need for additional cap friendly depth on the wing and the Flyers’ need to replace Timonen’s production next summer and find a reliable right handed shot to compliment Schenn, it could be a good fit for both teams. Because of the Flyers’ cap situation, they would have to move a defenseman first, with Meszaros and Coburn heading the list.

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07-28-2013, 02:59 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by ImPEKKAble View Post
Sounds good to me, we do need a Kimmo replacement (NOT saying that is Bogosian). Could that be Franson? Don't watch him much.
The thing with Bogosian, he may or may not become anything more than what he is now & that's a solid top 4 defensemen when healthy. You'd be paying a price for him assuming he turns into a stud top pairing defensemen.

Franson you would at least being paying a way cheaper price & know what you're getting, a solid top 4 RH defensemen who will put up 25-30 points a year.

With our current cap situation though I just don't see us making a move for a defensemen any time soon. I think they'll trade Mez & roll with what they got left for in the mean time.

As for a Kimmo replacement I think that we'll have to wait until next offseason if we even do replace him. I don't think it's totally out of the realm possibility that Kimmo comes back for one more year depending on how his & the Flyers year goes this year.

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07-28-2013, 03:09 PM
  #60
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Getting Franson would be nice but that's a move that requires other moving parts and tough decisions. I've already stated my case that Gustafsson should be in the starting top 6 this upcoming season. That obviously means getting rid of Meszaros.

That leaves us with;

Timonen - Schenn
Streit - Coburn
Grossmann - Gustafsson/Franson

Now again were stuck with too many defensemen that need to play.

In 2015, assuming we lose Timonen, we have

Franson - Schenn
Streit - Coburn
Grossmann - Gustasson

Which is solid but are we content with that defense or do we try and improve through trade or UFA?

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07-28-2013, 04:02 PM
  #61
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Getting Franson would be nice but that's a move that requires other moving parts and tough decisions. I've already stated my case that Gustafsson should be in the starting top 6 this upcoming season. That obviously means getting rid of Meszaros.

That leaves us with;

Timonen - Schenn
Streit - Coburn
Grossmann - Gustafsson/Franson

Now again were stuck with too many defensemen that need to play.

In 2015, assuming we lose Timonen, we have

Franson - Schenn
Streit - Coburn
Grossmann - Gustasson

Which is solid but are we content with that defense or do we try and improve through trade or UFA?
Well you could move Gus & a pick for Franson. I know that wouldn't be popular but Franson's only 26 an already a proven top four defender & a right-handed shot. We're basically hoping Gus can turn into a top four defender so I honestly wouldn't have a problem with it. Then ship Mez out for whatever.

Timonen - Schenn
Coburn - Streit
Grossmann - Franson

I'm not entirely sure if the numbers would work or if it would even happen but I would like that lineup going into next year if it went down.

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07-28-2013, 04:16 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
I think Mez gets shipped out before camp starts for like a conditional pick or something small in return.
I think your post is spot on. Funny thing will be how many people start screaming for Homers head because all they get is a 7th round pick in 2022 for him.

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07-28-2013, 04:22 PM
  #63
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I think your post is spot on. Funny thing will be how many people start screaming for Homers head because all they get is a 7th round pick in 2022 for him.
I don't think so, I think most here conceded that we won't be getting anything of real value for Mez at this point, just getting rid of that contract will be a plus anything more than that will be a bonus.

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07-28-2013, 04:40 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Alex Mills View Post
In addition to Schenn and Grossmann, Lauridsen had a solid audition at the end of last season and will add more grit over the next couple of years, as will Morin when he’s ready.

It’s difficult to agree that Bogosian is tougher from a durability standpoint, as he’s missed almost 80 games due to various injuries (leg, hand, shoulder, knee, wrist, etc.) over the past five seasons. Given the Flyers’ excessive amount of man games lost to injury on the blue line over the past couple of years, signing another expensive, injury-prone defenseman to a long-term contract is the last thing they need.

Franson actually averaged more hits per game than Bogosian last season, and took it up another notch in the playoffs. Dreger suggested a prospect and a draft pick as a possible return for Franson. Ontario native Tye McGinn played on Giroux’s line for a few games last season, but is buried on a depth chart loaded with left handed shooters. Given the Leafs’ need for additional cap friendly depth on the wing and the Flyers’ need to replace Timonen’s production next summer and find a reliable right handed shot to compliment Schenn, it could be a good fit for both teams. Because of the Flyers’ cap situation, they would have to move a defenseman first, with Meszaros and Coburn heading the list.
I agreed 100% with everything you wrote except for Coburn. Great post..imo

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07-28-2013, 04:44 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
Well you could move Gus & a pick for Franson. I know that wouldn't be popular but Franson's only 26 an already a proven top four defender & a right-handed shot. We're basically hoping Gus can turn into a top four defender so I honestly wouldn't have a problem with it. Then ship Mez out for whatever.

Timonen - Schenn
Coburn - Streit
Grossmann - Franson

I'm not entirely sure if the numbers would work or if it would even happen but I would like that lineup going into next year if it went down.
I would be more than pleased if this is how we went into this season this year.

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07-28-2013, 04:58 PM
  #66
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http://www.capgeek.com/mapleleafs/

The Leafs have 6 defensemen signed for next year with Franson & Mark Fraser as RFA's unsigned currently. Franson made $1.2M last year & should get somewhere around a $1-2M raise. Fraser should be their cheap 7th defensemen so my original statement of trading Gus & a pick wouldn't work it seems. I would still be interested in trade for Franson though if we could make it work somehow.

They have $6,170,833 in cap space & still have to sign Kadri so they're going to be looking for futures or really cheap roster players for Franson.


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07-28-2013, 05:25 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
http://www.capgeek.com/mapleleafs/

The Leafs have 6 defensemen signed for next year with Franson & Mark Fraser as RFA's unsigned currently. Franson made $1.2M last year & should get somewhere around a $1-2M raise. Fraser should be their cheap 7th defensemen so my original statement of trading Gus & a pick wouldn't work it seems. I would still be interested in trade for Franson though if we could make it work somehow.

They have $6,170,833 in cap space & still have to sign Kadri so they're going to be looking for futures or really cheap roster players for Franson.
Franson does seem like a good option, wouldn't mind those pairings mentioned earlier as well. Also as you said Gus you can hope to be Top 4, Franson you know.

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07-28-2013, 05:26 PM
  #68
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As intriguing as it is, I don't think Toronto would be interested in a Gustafsson+ return.

Hindsight being 20/20, I'd rather have Franson than Streit considering age and contract, but you could not necessarily expect Franson to be on the market at this point.

That said, it's pretty much too late for us to have real interest in Franson at this point.

I mean we could do it if we're willing to let Gus sit in the pressbox for a year and then jump in next year assuming Timonen retires.

Hmmm.

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07-28-2013, 05:46 PM
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As intriguing as it is, I don't think Toronto would be interested in a Gustafsson+ return.

Hindsight being 20/20, I'd rather have Franson than Streit considering age and contract, but you could not necessarily expect Franson to be on the market at this point.

That said, it's pretty much too late for us to have real interest in Franson at this point.

I mean we could do it if we're willing to let Gus sit in the pressbox for a year and then jump in next year assuming Timonen retires.

Hmmm.
Well I don't know if they sign Kadri for $4-4.5M they still have some money & could fit Gus in at $1M/1year.

Taking Franson out leaves them with this:
Phaneuf
Liles
Gunnerson
Gardiner
Ranger
Holzer

Ranger hasn't played in the NHL for years now & Holzer hasn't been any spectatular. Holzer's also under $900K so he could be sent up/down. I could see them maybe being interested in Gus if them & us can make the numbers work.

Edit: I totally forgot about Morgan Rielly. He has a shot at making the team this year. I don't see them being interested in Gus at all now.


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07-28-2013, 07:36 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
Well you could move Gus & a pick for Franson. I know that wouldn't be popular but Franson's only 26 an already a proven top four defender & a right-handed shot. We're basically hoping Gus can turn into a top four defender so I honestly wouldn't have a problem with it. Then ship Mez out for whatever.

Timonen - Schenn
Coburn - Streit
Grossmann - Franson


I'm not entirely sure if the numbers would work or if it would even happen but I would like that lineup going into next year if it went down.
I don't know if Toronto would want a D man in return but I guess we could just trade Gustafsson elsewhere. Maybe even package Gus with Meszaros. I really like Gustafsson but I wouldn't mind starting the season with the pairings you posted. Plenty of size and a nice blend of offense and defense.

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07-29-2013, 12:41 PM
  #71
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Certainly wouldn't be able to acquire him without giving up one of Voracek, Simmonds, Couturier, or Schenn. Bogosian has a ton of upside.

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07-29-2013, 12:54 PM
  #72
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Certainly wouldn't be able to acquire him without giving up one of Voracek, Simmonds, Couturier, or Schenn. Bogosian has a ton of upside.
Bogosian has a ton of upside but he also could stagnate and be nothing more than a Coburn like top 4 defenseman. The Flyers defense looks like it is set for this season. Let Bogosian prove he can fulfill that upside this year at least before giving up a ton of assets.

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07-29-2013, 01:31 PM
  #73
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Bogosian has a ton of upside but he also could stagnate and be nothing more than a Coburn like top 4 defenseman. The Flyers defense looks like it is set for this season. Let Bogosian prove he can fulfill that upside this year at least before giving up a ton of assets.
agreed..

other then getting rid of Mez. i think the team is pretty much set for opening nite.

still like to get Gagne deal done somehow, but its hardly vital really..

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07-29-2013, 01:49 PM
  #74
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I don't know if Toronto would want a D man in return but I guess we could just trade Gustafsson elsewhere. Maybe even package Gus with Meszaros. I really like Gustafsson but I wouldn't mind starting the season with the pairings you posted. Plenty of size and a nice blend of offense and defense.
Gus is way less valuable to other teams. A trade including him would mean giving up something to get almost nothing. To them, he's a fringe 3rd pairing D. To us, he's a prospectual Kimmo replacement. Basically, any value of his would be squandered by not in fact using him as a developing 2nd pairing D this upcoming season.

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07-29-2013, 02:38 PM
  #75
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Cody Franson would be a nice add to our bottom pairing, but he really is that and nothing more. People arguing he is a top 4 defender are crazy. He is a glorified bottom pairing defender who benefits greatly from PP time and playing weaker competition.

He averaged the 7th best on ice time per game(even strength) on the leafs defense this year, being beated by the likes of Kotska, Holzer, and even god awful Liles was out there more than him. He averaged the second best PP time on the team behind Phaneuf. He averaged around 2:50 seconds per game. I want to see Franson perform better at even strength before I would think about giving anything of value to the Leafs for him. It's sad to hear leaf fans argue he is worth a mid first and prospect, when his real value is probably a player like Mcginn+3rd or a 2nd a lesser prospect maybe.


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