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Cole Trade Revisted/ Briere signing

View Poll Results: Cole Vs Briere
Cole 52 27.08%
Briere 140 72.92%
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Old
07-28-2013, 02:25 PM
  #101
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There's always a chance playing for the CH lights a fire under Briere and motivates him. I hope wearing the CH brings out the best in him. However, I don't see him as an upgrade over cole/ryder if his continues the way it did last year.

I would have preferred ryder. He's good for 20 goals every year, no matter how much flack he takes.

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07-28-2013, 04:53 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Emanresu Wen View Post
2012 Cole was the best player wearing a habs jersey in a loooooooooong time

2013 Cole was a disaster
Since Kovalev, three years ago (now 4 but y'know what I'm trying to say here).

Not really a long time...

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07-29-2013, 11:32 AM
  #103
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I wished we traded for Cole but Ryder sucked so we would still made the playoff but at 8th.. so we draft higher.

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07-29-2013, 11:40 AM
  #104
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I wished we traded for Cole but Ryder sucked so we would still made the playoff but at 8th.. so we draft higher.

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07-29-2013, 11:42 AM
  #105
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I wished we traded for Cole but Ryder sucked so we would still made the playoff but at 8th.. so we draft higher.
Wtf dude. Go home, you're drunk!

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07-30-2013, 10:00 AM
  #106
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I'm not as against Briere as most seem to be. He's lost a step, but, from what I've seen, he seems to be a good mentor for younger players. As long as he can draw some penalties, score a big goal here or there, I'll be happy.. though...for his salary.. he SHOULD be doing a lot more than that. One can only hope...

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07-30-2013, 10:22 AM
  #107
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So much free hate for Cole. Dude had a rough season just like Briere.

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07-31-2013, 11:44 AM
  #108
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There should be a third option: who would rather have neither player? I opt for that option.

I loved what Cole did his first year here, but hated his whiny BS during the lock out and despised his quitter attitude lat season. Getting Ryder and a 3rd was terrific. Spending the Cole money on Briere was a panic move to appease Francophone fans after Lecavalier copied Briere and used the Habs to get a better contract. Briere is not here out of pride or love, he is here because nobody else was willing to pay as much as we stupidly are paying for him. I HATE the Briere signing. However, if I were forced to choose only between Cole and Briere at their current contracts and abilities, I grudgingly give Briere the nod. Only at gun point, though. ******* them both, in my opinion. I hope I am wrong and have to apologize on HFBOARDS after the season, though.

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07-31-2013, 11:53 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by OneSharpMarble View Post
Signing a player who never wanted to be here when he had another option is never smart, especially one who brings as little as briere.

This team had need of a powerforward like cole for over a decade, we finally get him and he is traded at the first drop in production.
You're right, I was IN LOVE with 2011-2012 Cole.

Let's not forget, though, that he's at the age where players decline, the lockout affected each player differently, Cole mentioning he might retire, Cole mentioning he had to think about his children's schooling in Canada vs US, and the fact that he didn't improve in Dallas.

I loved the first year of Cole's contract, and would have wanted him to stay had there been any chance that he would play this way again. I seriously think there is less than 10% chances he comes back to his old self now though...

Cole's decline has nothing to do with choosing Briere to "replace him". Cole disappeared, Briere was brought in 6 months later to try and fill a void left by Ryder.

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07-31-2013, 11:58 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
Spending the Cole money on Briere was a panic move to appease Francophone fans after Lecavalier copied Briere and used the Habs to get a better contract.
I don't get the impression that Bergevin cares about "appeasing Francophone fans". I don't think there has been much of that in the Habs organization for a long time, really. What makes fans think they are that important/in need of appeasement?

Anyway, I would still just presume the new negotiating window in the CBA allowed Bergevin to determine conclusively before the FA Frenzy that he simply was not going to be able to sign *any* of the more prominent UFA forwards on the market. There weren't many to begin with. But the term and $$$ that some of them got was indeed pretty steep, and the Habs weren't going to top those numbers. So he knew that he could either have dead cap space, some more grinder/depth guys, or take a chance on Briere for $4M. I can understand gambling on Briere. You hope you're getting the best possible player you can, even if he's a really poor fit to the current team composition. I might personally have gone after some lesser player instead, without the upside. But I can understand the Briere gamble. Without remotely thinking it would have anything to do with "appeasing Francophone fans".

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07-31-2013, 01:52 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by 24get View Post
I thought about that too.
Cole 2013 vs Briere 2013: Briere
Cole 2011-12 vs Briere of 2011-12: not so sure.

But decision was taken in 2013.
So the answer is simple.
i'd also go ahead and say that

Brière's career vs Cole's career : Brière

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07-31-2013, 03:12 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
I don't get the impression that Bergevin cares about "appeasing Francophone fans". I don't think there has been much of that in the Habs organization for a long time, really. What makes fans think they are that important/in need of appeasement?

Anyway, I would still just presume the new negotiating window in the CBA allowed Bergevin to determine conclusively before the FA Frenzy that he simply was not going to be able to sign *any* of the more prominent UFA forwards on the market. There weren't many to begin with. But the term and $$$ that some of them got was indeed pretty steep, and the Habs weren't going to top those numbers. So he knew that he could either have dead cap space, some more grinder/depth guys, or take a chance on Briere for $4M. I can understand gambling on Briere. You hope you're getting the best possible player you can, even if he's a really poor fit to the current team composition. I might personally have gone after some lesser player instead, without the upside. But I can understand the Briere gamble. Without remotely thinking it would have anything to do with "appeasing Francophone fans".
Or address the soft as butter d. Briere wasn't or shouldn't have been a priority of any kind. Spending money for the sake of spending money is never a
Good idea

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07-31-2013, 03:55 PM
  #113
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Or address the soft as butter d. Briere wasn't or shouldn't have been a priority of any kind. Spending money for the sake of spending money is never a
Good idea
I don't think you can reduce it to "spending money for the sake of spending money". Briere has been a good player in the NHL for a lot of years, and really good in the playoffs. So he's not automatically just money wasted. And the team had cap space after signing him (and still has cap space) to consider signing a tough D-man. So there's no conflict involved there.

I guess end of the day, as much as I've hated the signing, I'd rather have Briere than dead cap space. It's not spending money for the sake of spending money, it's using empty cap space on a player who - while not a great fit at all on paper - could provide on-ice or asset value to the club, and I'd rather see that option taken than see nothing. It's not my $4M going into Briere's pocket.

It'll look a lot worse though if he really does tank, play at the Gomez-esque level he seemed to be approaching last season. At such point, if the gamble has demonstrably failed, I'll go back to purely hating on the signing (as opposed to desperately looking for a silver lining atm).

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07-31-2013, 06:14 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
I don't get the impression that Bergevin cares about "appeasing Francophone fans". I don't think there has been much of that in the Habs organization for a long time, really. What makes fans think they are that important/in need of appeasement?

Anyway, I would still just presume the new negotiating window in the CBA allowed Bergevin to determine conclusively before the FA Frenzy that he simply was not going to be able to sign *any* of the more prominent UFA forwards on the market. There weren't many to begin with. But the term and $$$ that some of them got was indeed pretty steep, and the Habs weren't going to top those numbers. So he knew that he could either have dead cap space, some more grinder/depth guys, or take a chance on Briere for $4M. I can understand gambling on Briere. You hope you're getting the best possible player you can, even if he's a really poor fit to the current team composition. I might personally have gone after some lesser player instead, without the upside. But I can understand the Briere gamble. Without remotely thinking it would have anything to do with "appeasing Francophone fans".
the bolded part was very evident months ago... that's where I'm a bit concerned with Briere standing out as the main offseason roster addition made by the team.

granted, no way to know conclusively just how hard/active MB was in looking for trade opportunities to bolster the roster, but in this day & age it seems like GM's actively shopping usually leads to a leak here or there... I don't recall any real talk by the more connected hockey analysts indicating that the habs were particularly active on that front.

You'd like to see a GM that is making moves 2-3 steps ahead, meticulously shaping the roster in some distinct direction/pattern.

- extending DD
- extending Bouillion
- Trading Cole for Ryder (who played exactly how you'd expect him to play, arguably on the high end of productivity, yet season ends and the team has zero interest in retaining him) *and i like that move in terms of asset management*
- Signing Briere
- trading a smallish AHL/NHL prospect for an even smaller AHL/NHL prospect
- keeping all 6 top-90 draft picks (and using 2 of them on undersized forwards)

I don't see how any of these decisions fits with the stated objective of making the team "harder to play against"... Drafting McCaron, DLR & Crisp could help with that down the road, but in the short-near term, all he's done in 2013 is reinforce/add to the teams lack of size/grit.

With you, I'll cross my fingers that Briere has a career renaissance, and gives us 2-years at/above his career average, but even then it still doesn't really address our most pressing roster needs.


Briere signing reeks of a "make the best of a bad situation" decision, which at the present moment might very well be true... but then rightfully some criticism is deserved for not having been more proactive in problem solving for the "improve the roster from last year to this year" mandate that all GM's inevitably have.

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07-31-2013, 07:17 PM
  #115
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the bolded part was very evident months ago... that's where I'm a bit concerned with Briere standing out as the main offseason roster addition made by the team.

granted, no way to know conclusively just how hard/active MB was in looking for trade opportunities to bolster the roster, but in this day & age it seems like GM's actively shopping usually leads to a leak here or there... I don't recall any real talk by the more connected hockey analysts indicating that the habs were particularly active on that front.

You'd like to see a GM that is making moves 2-3 steps ahead, meticulously shaping the roster in some distinct direction/pattern.

- extending DD
- extending Bouillion
- Trading Cole for Ryder (who played exactly how you'd expect him to play, arguably on the high end of productivity, yet season ends and the team has zero interest in retaining him) *and i like that move in terms of asset management*
- Signing Briere
- trading a smallish AHL/NHL prospect for an even smaller AHL/NHL prospect
- keeping all 6 top-90 draft picks (and using 2 of them on undersized forwards)

I don't see how any of these decisions fits with the stated objective of making the team "harder to play against"... Drafting McCaron, DLR & Crisp could help with that down the road, but in the short-near term, all he's done in 2013 is reinforce/add to the teams lack of size/grit.

With you, I'll cross my fingers that Briere has a career renaissance, and gives us 2-years at/above his career average, but even then it still doesn't really address our most pressing roster needs.


Briere signing reeks of a "make the best of a bad situation" decision, which at the present moment might very well be true... but then rightfully some criticism is deserved for not having been more proactive in problem solving for the "improve the roster from last year to this year" mandate that all GM's inevitably have.
It's easy to sit here and criticize but sometimes, the best moves you make are the ones you don't make. I for one am glad that he didn't give 7 years to a David Clarkson or the money Ryane Clowe received. Those two players would have gone a long way to please the crowds though and appease the concerns of "being tougher to play against".

Bergevin has always said that he is focusing on changing the culture and people laugh at the concept that he wants character players. Well from what I've read, Kristo is a party animal who doesn't take his hockey seriously while Thomas is filled with such character and drive. I am not thrilled with the Briere signing but there is no denying that he's a character player who doesn't take a night off and who works hard on and off the ice.

As much as Desharnais has become the whipping boy of many of the fans on this forum, he is extremely appreciated in the dressing room with his teammates and none are in a better position than Bergevin and his team to know what kind of character player he is. Same goes with Bouillon who, by the way, signed for one more year while the young guys develop a bit more. Big freakin' deal.

You say that Bergevin hasn't done anything to make the team tougher to play against but no where in your rant can we read the trade for George Parros, a guy who will help when the going gets tough. Notice one thing with the 3 moves though: he didn't overpay, even if Desharnais is arguable, but we'll have to wait and see.

He kept his draft picks? Oh my God! What a crime! Come on man. He got bigger with 4 out of the 6 picks, including 3 mean SOBs. Yet, if people listened to Bergevin when he talks, they'd be able to recognize that he has a plan and he is following it:
  1. He wants to change the culture by adding character players to be tougher to play against.
  2. He doesn't have a 5 year plan like others before him, he wants to build a contender year in, year out and you don't build that through UFAs but by sound drafting and developing players internally.
  3. He will not get into bidding wars to get a player unless he feels it's the player he must have.
  4. He feels it's the team's duty to ensure they don't miss local products as he feels it's important to have a local flavour on the team. How many of this year's picks were from the Q?
  5. He didn't waste any of his draft picks on overpayments at the trade deadline last year, like Pittsburgh did, amongst others.

Because the results are not right there, right in front of their nose, some fans need to take a few steps back in order to be able to recognize the forest from the trees. Bergevin is doing an outstanding job so far, and some of the moves considered by some as being mistakes are really well calculated moves at relatively low costs to the franchise. I truly believe that those criticizing will be the same praising him in a not so distant future.

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07-31-2013, 07:28 PM
  #116
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I've read every post of this thread and a lot of them have something in common. As most of the people here already know, some people still think that Bergevin signed Brière because he's from Quebec and he's french.

I do hope some of you were trolling because if you really think an organization would be stupid enough to sign a guy because of his mother tongue, you don't know what you're talking about. Cole was trade because he sucked and never wanted to come back and play hockey. Furthermore, he will probably never be able to have another season like the first one he had with us.

So by trading Cole, we got Michael Ryder. The 30-goal scorer. He did his job like everyone wanted. But I really don't think he impressed the organization enough to keep him in the lineup next year. Did he ever wanted to come back here in the first place? I'm not sure...he probably just didn't cared of playing in Montreal. He totally disappeared when the playoffs arrived and never showed he wanted a new contract with this team.

Then, every team in the league had the chance after the Stanley Cup Final to buy out some of their players. Bergevin gave Brière a 2-year contract because he knew Ryder wasn't coming back as soon as the season ended. 2 years, ffs. Not 7 years like Clarkson got with the Leafs, 2.

Seriously guys, who was going to take Ryder's spot on this team as a RW? Someone who could score between 20 and 25 goals? We have Gallagher and Gionta is injured right now. We needed a RW since Ryder wasn't coming back and Bergevin took a chance with Brière because it's a cheap contract.

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07-31-2013, 08:24 PM
  #117
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- extending DD
- extending Bouillion
- Trading Cole for Ryder (who played exactly how you'd expect him to play, arguably on the high end of productivity, yet season ends and the team has zero interest in retaining him) *and i like that move in terms of asset management*
- Signing Briere
- trading a smallish AHL/NHL prospect for an even smaller AHL/NHL prospect
- keeping all 6 top-90 draft picks (and using 2 of them on undersized forwards)

I don't see how any of these decisions fits with the stated objective of making the team "harder to play against"...
And you'll find that the only rationale people come up with defending many of those moves involve comparisons to other transactions that have been deemed "worse". I mean, that's basically admitting that as stand alone moves they're questionable (at best), if that's the main line of defense reasoning. If the Habs' moves were the only ones made by any team in the NHL all year, how would they look? Horrible, I submit, but in fairness they aren't the only moves/changes so far.

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07-31-2013, 11:03 PM
  #118
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I've read every post of this thread and a lot of them have something in common. As most of the people here already know, some people still think that Bergevin signed Brière because he's from Quebec and he's french.

I do hope some of you were trolling because if you really think an organization would be stupid enough to sign a guy because of his mother tongue, you don't know what you're talking about. Cole was trade because he sucked and never wanted to come back and play hockey. Furthermore, he will probably never be able to have another season like the first one he had with us.

So by trading Cole, we got Michael Ryder. The 30-goal scorer. He did his job like everyone wanted. But I really don't think he impressed the organization enough to keep him in the lineup next year. Did he ever wanted to come back here in the first place? I'm not sure...he probably just didn't cared of playing in Montreal. He totally disappeared when the playoffs arrived and never showed he wanted a new contract with this team.

Then, every team in the league had the chance after the Stanley Cup Final to buy out some of their players. Bergevin gave Brière a 2-year contract because he knew Ryder wasn't coming back as soon as the season ended. 2 years, ffs. Not 7 years like Clarkson got with the Leafs, 2.

Seriously guys, who was going to take Ryder's spot on this team as a RW? Someone who could score between 20 and 25 goals? We have Gallagher and Gionta is injured right now. We needed a RW since Ryder wasn't coming back and Bergevin took a chance with Brière because it's a cheap contract.
Why does everyone go to extremes, Bergevin didn't have to pick between Clarkson, Clowe, or Briere, he had other opitions, ones that would have been a better yet, like Morrow, and while Morrow is a LW, Bourque could have played RW (spot he has produced more in), to make more for Morrow.

Heck even maybe Jagr

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08-01-2013, 12:00 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
And you'll find that the only rationale people come up with defending many of those moves involve comparisons to other transactions that have been deemed "worse". I mean, that's basically admitting that as stand alone moves they're questionable (at best), if that's the main line of defense reasoning. If the Habs' moves were the only ones made by any team in the NHL all year, how would they look? Horrible, I submit, but in fairness they aren't the only moves/changes so far.
i'll never understand that reasoning, or way of thinking... comparing to the lowest common denominator is a loser mentality.

NHL, from a competitive point of view is pretty cut & dry. Win. Period. Only 1 winner every year, so it's incredibly tough, but either you're aiming for that, or you're making excuses.

From a business point of view, making money is the bottom line... hence why the Gainey era lasted so long. Arriving at a convenient time (canadian dollar nearing parity, owner willing to spend to the cap, mid 2000's being a strong period economically), the money was rolling in, so the pressure to actually win wasn't so strong.

Habs continued financial success risks putting us on the Maple Laffs path... where the sound of the cash register drowns out the competitive fire at the organizational level.


Who cares that we didn't make "the worst" moves in the offseason. The organization should be looking to make "the best" decisions each and every offseason... and while that's impossible, better to aim high and "miss" with average moves, than settle/be content with mediocre.

I though MB's first summer on the job showed a nice mix of ballsiness, calculated risk, and roster manipulation in a clear/precise direction. Didn't necessarily like all of them, but there was a consistency and vision that shone through.

His moves since the start of 2013 don't follow that same pattern. Rushed extensions, minimal/redundant trades, conservative draft day, reach UFA signing... some of it might work out, but none of it seems to have:
A- improved the team now
B- significantly improved us for the future (the draft class is no different than other years, he did add the 3rd, but that's hardly a big push for "future" focus)
C- been a creative attempt at improving the current/future of the organization


I welcome the accusation that I won't be happy until we have the best GM in the league... cuz that's what I want to see, just like I want to see the habs be the best team in the league, ie win the cup.

anything else is quite reasonably a disappointment.

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08-01-2013, 12:23 AM
  #120
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It's easy to sit here and criticize but sometimes, the best moves you make are the ones you don't make. I for one am glad that he didn't give 7 years to a David Clarkson or the money Ryane Clowe received. Those two players would have gone a long way to please the crowds though and appease the concerns of "being tougher to play against".
- even casual fans knew well before the offseason that this years UFA crop was bare, and that average/role players would cash in huge as a result.

- Clowe & Clarkson are not the only two players who have changed uniforms in the last few months who fit the "tough to play against" model

- why even bother bringing up other teams mistakes? Nothing wrong with wanting our organization to be making the "best" moves, I don't see why we should settle for "not making the worst" moves.


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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Bergevin has always said that he is focusing on changing the culture and people laugh at the concept that he wants character players. Well from what I've read, Kristo is a party animal who doesn't take his hockey seriously while Thomas is filled with such character and drive. I am not thrilled with the Briere signing but there is no denying that he's a character player who doesn't take a night off and who works hard on and off the ice.
doesn't take much searching to find that Briere's off ice "character" leaves something to be desired.

Do you think MB would turn his back on having a guy like Pat Kane on the team because of his off-ice issues?

On ice, Briere is also a diver and a guy who often whines/chirps.

in the last few seasons Briere has taken a lot of "nights off" due to injury.

Dan Cleary is still unsigned, pure character guy on ice, likely available at much smaller commitment and would have been a better roster fit. Ditto B.Morrow... if "character" was really the objective.


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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
As much as Desharnais has become the whipping boy of many of the fans on this forum, he is extremely appreciated in the dressing room with his teammates and none are in a better position than Bergevin and his team to know what kind of character player he is. Same goes with Bouillon who, by the way, signed for one more year while the young guys develop a bit more. Big freakin' deal.
in that regard, the bouillion signing makes some sense... but at 2-3M$+ for multiple years, you need more than "well liked in the locker room".

tying up that kind of money for that kind of term IS a "big freakin deal" in a cap era. Not too mention the impact it has on the coach/players in terms of dealing with what happens if/when his performance pushes him out of his role.

Pleks-Eller-Galch already makes him a 4th wheel up the middle.
Gionta - Gally - Briere (especially with Thomas, Colberg, Holland as the closest top-6 wingers in the system) makes him a less than ideal fit in the top-6/9 on the wing.


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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
You say that Bergevin hasn't done anything to make the team tougher to play against but no where in your rant can we read the trade for George Parros, a guy who will help when the going gets tough. Notice one thing with the 3 moves though: he didn't overpay, even if Desharnais is arguable, but we'll have to wait and see.
a fighter who struggles to win fights these days and is not particularly useful in any role other than punching bag & "good in the locker room" is hardly the solution to making the team tougher to play against. It may help by virtue of taking some pressure off of Prust and allowing him to spend more time on the ice than in the injury ward/penalty box, but that's an indirect benefit.

Desharnais is overpaid if not in dollars, certainly in term commitment. The current roster make up & pipeline make it much much worse given how redundant the smallish forward is in our organization.


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He kept his draft picks? Oh my God! What a crime! Come on man. He got bigger with 4 out of the 6 picks, including 3 mean SOBs. Yet, if people listened to Bergevin when he talks, they'd be able to recognize that he has a plan and he is following it:
are the hysterics really necessary?

4 of 6? what? McCaron, DLR, Crisp... that's 3. The finn & the swiss are both diminutive, and the goalie is a goalie.

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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
LIST=1][*]He wants to change the culture by adding character players to be tougher to play against.[*]He doesn't have a 5 year plan like others before him, he wants to build a contender year in, year out and you don't build that through UFAs but by sound drafting and developing players internally.[*]He will not get into bidding wars to get a player unless he feels it's the player he must have.[*]He feels it's the team's duty to ensure they don't miss local products as he feels it's important to have a local flavour on the team. How many of this year's picks were from the Q?[*]He didn't waste any of his draft picks on overpayments at the trade deadline last year, like Pittsburgh did, amongst others.[/LIST]
he also did not improve the team at all for the upcoming season.
made no adjustments (beyond 8min/game Parros) to address the teams biggest weakness
in real terms, actually made the team smaller/softer at forward


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Because the results are not right there, right in front of their nose, some fans need to take a few steps back in order to be able to recognize the forest from the trees. Bergevin is doing an outstanding job so far, and some of the moves considered by some as being mistakes are really well calculated moves at relatively low costs to the franchise. I truly believe that those criticizing will be the same praising him in a not so distant future.
i liked what he did in his first few months on the job, I just don't like what i've seen in the last few months.

those two periods, if you break down the moves, lack consistency, making it questionable as to how someone could just blanket approve of everything he's done... although that does happen a lot around here, where some people feel the need to take one stance and then stick with it come hell or high water, regardless of how things evolve.

I hope MB's moves work out, would be thrilled to turn out wrong on his most recent decisions, and would be thrilled to the next few months "wow" me with how he improves the organizarion either in the short or long term.

but i'm not going to sit at a picnic and chug the kool-aid no matter how nice the forest is.

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08-01-2013, 07:53 AM
  #121
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Why does everyone go to extremes, Bergevin didn't have to pick between Clarkson, Clowe, or Briere, he had other opitions, ones that would have been a better yet, like Morrow, and while Morrow is a LW, Bourque could have played RW (spot he has produced more in), to make more for Morrow.

Heck even maybe Jagr
Yeah, but the team had cap space to keep pursuing those guys even with Briere already signed. (And seems to have at least kicked the tires on Morrow). I think when we look at the Briere signing, it's the "consolation prize" to not being able to sign the really big $$$ Day 1 UFA guys who were out there, and there weren't many, like Lecavalier, Clowe, Clarkson. Bergevin will have known that the real mercenary veterans like Iginla and Alfredsson had other plans. Morrow and Jagr could have been signed as afterthoughts, and weren't excluded by the signing of Briere. But Briere reportedly had other suitors and wouldn't have been available had we waited on him.

It is still going to come down to how that asset pans out for me. We had a small window of opportunity to get this asset "for free" as a UFA, and we got him, and I don't think it very likely excluded us from getting any other assets. (At least, I sure hope not - per all these posts I'm trying to believe it didn't). But what remains to be seen is whether we even get good value out of Briere from the "for free" perspective. I'm not convinced we will. It was worth a try, perhaps, but if it turns out he sucks and/or we can't flip him for any other return and he becomes a Gomez-like blight on the roster, it won't have been worthwhile, even "for free".

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08-01-2013, 08:02 AM
  #122
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I certainly wish we would of got someone better than Brière with the savings but the market isn't always the best way to upgrade your lineup. I like how Bergevin handled the situation by not giving ridiculous contracts to players like Clarkson or not trading any of the prospects. His mentality is building through the draft and I'm all for that. UFA's are generally secondary players added to an existing core. Bergevin has some years to build this core.

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08-01-2013, 09:38 AM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Emanresu Wen View Post
2012 Cole was the best player wearing a habs jersey in a loooooooooong time

2013 Cole was a disaster
Given his 2012 performance he deserved another chance to prove himself.

I mean people were mainly happy to trade Cole cause of his contract. People even said MB was a genius.

And then we go and sign Briere. *facepalm*

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08-01-2013, 09:47 AM
  #124
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- even casual fans knew well before the offseason that this years UFA crop was bare, and that average/role players would cash in huge as a result.

- Clowe & Clarkson are not the only two players who have changed uniforms in the last few months who fit the "tough to play against" model

- why even bother bringing up other teams mistakes? Nothing wrong with wanting our organization to be making the "best" moves, I don't see why we should settle for "not making the worst" moves.




doesn't take much searching to find that Briere's off ice "character" leaves something to be desired.

Do you think MB would turn his back on having a guy like Pat Kane on the team because of his off-ice issues?

On ice, Briere is also a diver and a guy who often whines/chirps.

in the last few seasons Briere has taken a lot of "nights off" due to injury.

Dan Cleary is still unsigned, pure character guy on ice, likely available at much smaller commitment and would have been a better roster fit. Ditto B.Morrow... if "character" was really the objective.




in that regard, the bouillion signing makes some sense... but at 2-3M$+ for multiple years, you need more than "well liked in the locker room".

tying up that kind of money for that kind of term IS a "big freakin deal" in a cap era. Not too mention the impact it has on the coach/players in terms of dealing with what happens if/when his performance pushes him out of his role.

Pleks-Eller-Galch already makes him a 4th wheel up the middle.
Gionta - Gally - Briere (especially with Thomas, Colberg, Holland as the closest top-6 wingers in the system) makes him a less than ideal fit in the top-6/9 on the wing.




a fighter who struggles to win fights these days and is not particularly useful in any role other than punching bag & "good in the locker room" is hardly the solution to making the team tougher to play against. It may help by virtue of taking some pressure off of Prust and allowing him to spend more time on the ice than in the injury ward/penalty box, but that's an indirect benefit.

Desharnais is overpaid if not in dollars, certainly in term commitment. The current roster make up & pipeline make it much much worse given how redundant the smallish forward is in our organization.




are the hysterics really necessary?

4 of 6? what? McCaron, DLR, Crisp... that's 3. The finn & the swiss are both diminutive, and the goalie is a goalie.



he also did not improve the team at all for the upcoming season.
made no adjustments (beyond 8min/game Parros) to address the teams biggest weakness
in real terms, actually made the team smaller/softer at forward




i liked what he did in his first few months on the job, I just don't like what i've seen in the last few months.

those two periods, if you break down the moves, lack consistency, making it questionable as to how someone could just blanket approve of everything he's done... although that does happen a lot around here, where some people feel the need to take one stance and then stick with it come hell or high water, regardless of how things evolve.

I hope MB's moves work out, would be thrilled to turn out wrong on his most recent decisions, and would be thrilled to the next few months "wow" me with how he improves the organizarion either in the short or long term.

but i'm not going to sit at a picnic and chug the kool-aid no matter how nice the forest is.
You were the one complaining as **** about long-term deals a couple years ago. Now that he signs/acquires players to/with short, low-risk deals, you still complain.

Methink some people here will never be happy with anything the management does, no matter what it is.

You know things are bad when Leafs fans find a way to rejoice about signing a 30 points forward to a 7 years, 5.25M/per contract, and Habs fans won't stop complaining about a 2 years deal handed out to a player who comes to Montreal play for his favorite team growing up with something to prove.

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08-01-2013, 10:53 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
- why even bother bringing up other teams mistakes? Nothing wrong with wanting our organization to be making the "best" moves, I don't see why we should settle for "not making the worst" moves.
You (and Ohashi_Jouzu) see this as bringing up other teams' mistakes but that was not the point I was trying to make with the Clarkson and Clowe examples, and/or with the teams who sold the farm for rental players. This was to open your eyes to the asking price, what the market dictates, to get the players the Habs needed to satisfy an immediate need. I'm simply saying that Bergevin stood his grounds and refused to overpay. That's a positive on Bergevin, not "not making the worst moves" as you state. Gauthier gave up how many picks for rental players like Lang, Wisniewski, Moore, Schneider, Halpern (the first time) and company, guys that never came back? No panic by Bergevin is what will pay off, that's what I'm saying.

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doesn't take much searching to find that Briere's off ice "character" leaves something to be desired.
I'd like to see that as I've never heard anything about it.

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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
in the last few seasons Briere has taken a lot of "nights off" due to injury.
You have a hell of a lot less risk of getting injured when you don't have character, when you don't go in traffic, when you don't get involved in the play. See Kostitsyn as an example.

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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
Dan Cleary is still unsigned, pure character guy on ice, likely available at much smaller commitment and would have been a better roster fit. Ditto B.Morrow... if "character" was really the objective.
As much as I'm not in favour of the Briere signing, I take him over Cleary any day as Briere can fill a Top 6 role while Gionta is out. Morrow hasn't signed yet and his father-in-law (Carbonneau) said that he has met with the Habs. That door isn't closed yet. But again, I'm convinced that Bergevin will not get into a bidding war. He'll get him at a price/term that HE wants, or he'll walk away. That's smart management in my opinion.

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in that regard, the bouillion signing makes some sense... but at 2-3M$+ for multiple years, you need more than "well liked in the locker room".
Bouillon signed for one year, $1.5M.

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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
Pleks-Eller-Galch already makes him a 4th wheel up the middle.
Galchenyuk will spend another year on the wing, I'm pretty sure of that. They want to bring him slowly by learning defensive responsibilities at the NHL level, without adding by putting him at center where the responsibilities are higher. He will, I'm sure, have a few opportunities at center.

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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
a fighter who struggles to win fights these days and is not particularly useful in any role other than punching bag & "good in the locker room" is hardly the solution to making the team tougher to play against. It may help by virtue of taking some pressure off of Prust and allowing him to spend more time on the ice than in the injury ward/penalty box, but that's an indirect benefit.
That's your opinion with which I obviously disagree. It's not an indirect benefit, it's totally direct. If Prust doesn't have to take on the heavyweights, he's fresher and it diminishes the risk of him getting his butt handed to him. The acquisition of Parros is more important than some people think.

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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
Desharnais is overpaid if not in dollars, certainly in term commitment. The current roster make up & pipeline make it much much worse given how redundant the smallish forward is in our organization.
That's obviously a popular opinion on this board. Would I have preferred a shorter deal? Yes. But $3.5M is not the end of the world and Bergevin obviously believes that Desharnais can bounce back. What are his detractors going to say if he has a season like he had two years ago? I know what they'll do, they'll give credit to his wingers as borrowing one of your own quotes: "although that does happen a lot around here, where some people feel the need to take one stance and then stick with it come hell or high water, regardless of how things evolve."

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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
he also did not improve the team at all for the upcoming season.
made no adjustments (beyond 8min/game Parros) to address the teams biggest weakness
in real terms, actually made the team smaller/softer at forward
To say that he didn't improve the team is ill intent, in my opinion. He has replaced Ryder with Briere. Ryder wasn't physical (has never been even if he was bigger). The Parros addition is a plus, even with the limited minutes on a fourth line and the odd night off. But I won't change your opinion on that, as you seem to be convinced that those were awful moves.

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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
I hope MB's moves work out, would be thrilled to turn out wrong on his most recent decisions, and would be thrilled to the next few months "wow" me with how he improves the organizarion either in the short or long term.

but i'm not going to sit at a picnic and chug the kool-aid no matter how nice the forest is.
No chance for you to see the forest if you sit too close. Take a step back, allow for things to develop and see the whole picture as that's where the beauty truly is.

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