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Mark Fraser rejects Leaf QO

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07-29-2013, 12:34 PM
  #176
Maplelaughs97
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Leaf fans which one is it? Is Kadri better then Turris or not? You all overwhelming say he is better so why doesn't he sign the same contract? Us sens fans are very please with Turris's contract he signed last offseason he was the same age as Kadri is now. At the moment he makes 3.5 million what are your thoughts on that?
That is the kind of contract i think most Leafs fans expect....3-3.5 is reasonable for what he brings to the table, and yes he's miles ahead of Turris offensively..

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07-29-2013, 12:38 PM
  #177
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Match and worry about fitting the cap later...Loads of time to shed salary/buyout Liles....Franson and especially Kadri look to be key contributors moving forwards....Now if someone does something like offer Franson 4.5-5 million i could see the Leafs taking the compensation, but not for a 2nd only...
Leafs can't buy out Liles, they've used the 2 compliance buyouts (Komisarek & Grabovski) and still have the two regular buyouts on the books (Tucker & Armstrong)...best they can hope for with Liles is a trade, which isn't going to be easy without at least retaining salary & giving up something...

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07-29-2013, 12:40 PM
  #178
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Leafs can't buy out Liles, they've used the 2 compliance buyouts (Komisarek & Grabovski) and still have the two regular buyouts on the books (Tucker & Armstrong)...best they can hope for with Liles is a trade, which isn't going to be easy without at least retaining salary & giving up something...
A second buyout window opens up following Mark Fraser's arbitration hearing where the Leafs can decide if they want to buyout the Liles contract.

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07-29-2013, 12:45 PM
  #179
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A second buyout window opens up following Mark Fraser's arbitration hearing where the Leafs can decide if they want to buyout the Liles contract.
Pretty sure that's only if two players reach arbitration.

So we can't do that.

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07-29-2013, 12:46 PM
  #180
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A second buyout window opens up following Mark Fraser's arbitration hearing where the Leafs can decide if they want to buyout the Liles contract.
I'm pretty sure the Leafs can't buy anyone out again until next year, when Armstrong & Tucker come off the books...may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that's how the rules go...

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07-29-2013, 12:47 PM
  #181
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Pretty sure that's only if two players reach arbitration.

So we can't do that.
I believe the language isn't very clear in the CBA, as file and reach are two completely different words.

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07-29-2013, 12:47 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by BigDaddyLurch View Post
Leafs can't buy out Liles, they've used the 2 compliance buyouts (Komisarek & Grabovski) and still have the two regular buyouts on the books (Tucker & Armstrong)...best they can hope for with Liles is a trade, which isn't going to be easy without at least retaining salary & giving up something...
The Leafs will have a second buy-out window a few days after a decision/deal is reached with Fraser.

I don't know if that second opportunity only applies to players who have filed for arbitration or for any player.

If it's for any player, they could buy-out Liles, thus saving $2.6M on the cap for the next 3 years.

The corollary is that they would create $1.25M of dead cap space for the next 6 years.

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07-29-2013, 12:48 PM
  #183
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I'm pretty sure the Leafs can't buy anyone out again until next year, when Armstrong & Tucker come off the books...may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that's how the rules go...
There isn't a limit on how many regular buyouts a team can use. The Leafs have already used their two compliance buyouts though.

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07-29-2013, 12:49 PM
  #184
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I believe the language isn't very clear in the CBA, as file and reach are two completely different words.
Ahh okay. My mistake then. That would be very convenient

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07-29-2013, 12:57 PM
  #185
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There isn't a limit on how many regular buyouts a team can use. The Leafs have already used their two compliance buyouts though.
My mistake, I thought there was...

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07-29-2013, 12:58 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
A second buyout window opens up following Mark Fraser's arbitration hearing where the Leafs can decide if they want to buyout the Liles contract.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beastly Bozak View Post
Pretty sure that's only if two players reach arbitration.

So we can't do that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
I believe the language isn't very clear in the CBA, as file and reach are two completely different words.
I did the same mistake last week.

Section 11.18 of the CBA which talks of 2 arbitration hearings only applies to arbitration requested by the team.

There is a second buy-out window as long as one player files for arbitration. Section 13c)(ii) of the SPC.

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07-29-2013, 01:00 PM
  #187
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if the leafs dont like what the arbitrator rules can the buy out fraser right away?

hyptothetically, if fraser was awarded a $1.5 million x 1 year deal the buyout would be $500,000 for 2 years. that would save the leafs $1 million right now giving them ~$5.7 million. they could also send liles down and free up another $925,000 which would give them $6.6 million. they could possibly sign kadri for 2 years at $2.6 million and give franson his $4 million for a 5 year deal (although i think it would be crazy).

the defense would look like,

phaneuf-gunnarson
gardiner-franson
ranger-holzer

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07-29-2013, 01:05 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by gabeliscious View Post
if the leafs dont like what the arbitrator rules can the buy out fraser right away?

hyptothetically, if fraser was awarded a $1.5 million x 1 year deal the buyout would be $500,000 for 2 years. that would save the leafs $1 million right now giving them ~$5.7 million. they could also send liles down and free up another $925,000 which would give them $6.6 million. they could possibly sign kadri for 2 years at $2.6 million and give franson his $4 million for a 5 year deal (although i think it would be crazy).

the defense would look like,

phaneuf-gunnarson
gardiner-franson
ranger-holzer
That third pairing would look so much better with Mark Fraser there instead of Korbinian Holzer.

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07-29-2013, 01:56 PM
  #189
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That third pairing would look so much better with Mark Fraser there instead of Korbinian Holzer.
agreed, but the second pairing looks so much better with franson there.

imo franson and holzer > liles and fraser and its not even close.

phaneuf-gunnarson
gardiner-ranger
liles-fraser

^^^^ less then ideal imo.

phaneuf-gunnarson
gardiner-franson
ranger-holzer

^^^ more balanced imo


with the addition of ranger, a healthy gunnarson, and if gardiner picks up where he left off in the playoffs i dont see how fraser's ice time would not be significantly reduced. if that is the case i would rather give holzer sheltered minutes and spread the rest of the time between phaneuf, gunnarson, gardiner, and ranger then have to deal with trying to protect liles and possibly fraser if he cant perform over 82 games.

no matter how you slice it, even with fraser in the lineup there will be 5 better options then him. i agree though if given a choice fraser>holzer

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07-29-2013, 02:09 PM
  #190
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This kind of scenario isn't going to happen. There are other teams with RFAs left to sign that have even less cap space available (Detroit, New York Rangers, Vancouver).

An all-out league offensive against the Leafs simply isn't going to happen, much to the dismay of all the haters in here.
Van has one left to sign (Tanev) and he's a third pairing defenseman. Offer sheet away!

Offer sheets are much more likely to happen on bigger names because teams are willing to give up decent compensation to actually force the player's team into a tough decision.

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07-29-2013, 06:49 PM
  #191
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Is it true he wants 2 mill ?

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07-29-2013, 06:53 PM
  #192
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Is it true he wants 2 mill ?
It's true that in arbitration you ask for a high amount knowing (hoping) you'll be awarded something in the middle of that number and what the team offered.

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07-29-2013, 06:56 PM
  #193
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It's true that in arbitration you ask for a high amount knowing (hoping) you'll be awarded something in the middle of that number and what the team offered.
So, he just did it hoping they award him more rather than thinking he's worth that.

If so, that's not bad.

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07-29-2013, 07:00 PM
  #194
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I did the same mistake last week.

Section 11.18 of the CBA which talks of 2 arbitration hearings only applies to arbitration requested by the team.

There is a second buy-out window as long as one player files for arbitration. Section 13c)(ii) of the SPC.
This was exactly what i was alluding to in my post. Hopefully they can trade Liles rather than resort to this, but it's the logical solution if nothing else can be macgyvered...

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07-29-2013, 08:45 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by beauchamp View Post
I did the same mistake last week.

Section 11.18 of the CBA which talks of 2 arbitration hearings only applies to arbitration requested by the team.

There is a second buy-out window as long as one player files for arbitration. Section 13c)(ii) of the SPC.
Does the original offer of a 2-way contract affect the Leafs' ability to walk away from a ruling in any way? Understand it doesn't for a 1-way, but curious if there's any impact by the 2-way offer?

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07-29-2013, 08:56 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by beauchamp View Post
I did the same mistake last week.

Section 11.18 of the CBA which talks of 2 arbitration hearings only applies to arbitration requested by the team.

There is a second buy-out window as long as one player files for arbitration. Section 13c)(ii) of the SPC.
So does this mean the Leafs can use a buy out (say on Liles......) after Fraser's arbitration hearing?

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07-29-2013, 09:24 PM
  #197
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So does this mean the Leafs can use a buy out (say on Liles......) after Fraser's arbitration hearing?
In a different thread, I asked the question as to whether that second window was valid for all players or only for those who filed for arbitration.

No answer received yet.

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07-29-2013, 09:36 PM
  #198
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Lousy salary cap.

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07-29-2013, 10:19 PM
  #199
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Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre View Post
So does this mean the Leafs can use a buy out (say on Liles......) after Fraser's arbitration hearing?
As I understood it, any player can be bought out, as long as they meet the qualifications (on the reserve list at trade deadline 2013. etc.)

I believe the provision is there so teams can get cap compliant after settling all arbitration cases. Player opted arbitration is out of the team's control, and therefore that team is given the opportunity to make adjustments to get their payroll cap compliant after settling all their arbitration cases.

Only restriction I saw was that teams are not allowed to use more than 3 of these "2nd window" buyouts over the entire duration of the CBA.

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07-29-2013, 10:46 PM
  #200
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Only restriction I saw was that teams are not allowed to use more than 3 of these "2nd window" buyouts over the entire duration of the CBA.
Which would indicate that Nonis has no intention of buying out Liles, unless he really failed at preparing for this off season. If he planned on it, he would have bought him out in the ordinary period and not used one of three buyouts possible within the next 10 years.

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