HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Rangers/Lightning

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-29-2013, 10:18 PM
  #26
Kris Chreider
#Bickel4Norris
 
Kris Chreider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: NYC/Minneapolis
Country: United States
Posts: 6,751
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by htk30 View Post
What would you give for Girardi? Would something around Girardi and Purcell work?
Girardi + Pyatt (cap reasons) + 2nd for Purcell + Salo?

Kris Chreider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-29-2013, 10:21 PM
  #27
CM Lundqvist
Best In The World
 
CM Lundqvist's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 8,117
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Still All In View Post
Please, if you could get that return for MDZ you'd be silly not to.
In what world? Certainly not this one.

CM Lundqvist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-29-2013, 10:56 PM
  #28
Sniper99
STEPAN!!!!!!
 
Sniper99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 177
vCash: 500
Yzerman isnt stupid. No way in hell does he accept this deal. Last time I checked Hedman didnt retire and decide to unretire in Sweden like Kovy in Russia. Lindback is way better than Biron. Just gotta give him some patience.

Sniper99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-29-2013, 11:00 PM
  #29
Lundsanity30
Registered User
 
Lundsanity30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 9,097
vCash: 500
This is a horrible trade for both teams.

Lundsanity30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-30-2013, 03:44 AM
  #30
JC704
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 94
vCash: 500
Del Zotto is easily the most valuable piece in this deal. It would take Connolly and a 2nd at the moment to get Del Zotto out of NY (The comparable in my head at the moment is the Turris for Rundblad + 2nd swap Ottawa and Phoenix made way back).

Problem is, TB does not need Del Zotto at all. They would have Del Zotto and Carle on a pairing and I believe Carle would probably be better suited with somebody a little more stay-at-home.

JC704 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-30-2013, 03:45 AM
  #31
Jacko95
Registered User
 
Jacko95's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Country: Germany
Posts: 1,753
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post

You expect 40 year Salo to take over Girardi's spot on the top pair?
I am glad you are not the GM.

Actually it's not that bad at all (0kay I am a Bolts fan), Salo is a servicable top pairing defender and I would be 100% happy going into the season with him on the top pair. The differnce between Salo in NY and in TB is, you would have guys that could jump in if he gets injured. Our next righty is Radko Gudas, who had an impressive rookie season last year and I have no problem playing him in the top4, but top pairing? For sure not.

The big problem for you guys would be, that you wold have to get a new top4 defender within the next 2 years. Or if you are not happy with either of MDZ or McDonagh on the top pair, a new top pairing guy.

I don't think the value is far off, but I get your problem in the future. Otherwise looking at next offseason, I would really question wether you could afford to hang onto all your big guns, because they all want raises for sure.
I would sweeten that offer a little bit for you because I have no problem overpaying for Girardi as he would solve ALL our biggest problem.

Girardi+ Pyatt (we would waive him anyways, because is brother is better and he even looks like the odd man out) +3rd round pick (if you go to the conference final, otherwise a 4th rounder)
for Purcell and Salo

Jacko95 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-30-2013, 03:47 AM
  #32
Machinehead
Richards Supporter
 
Machinehead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: New York New York
Country: United States
Posts: 31,484
vCash: 500
Bad for both teams. If we move Del Zotto I want to improve on Del Zotto instantly or get a winger that can move into the top 6 right now.

And the value for Tampa is just mind-numbingly bad.

__________________


"We go again." -Steven Gerrard
Machinehead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-30-2013, 04:11 AM
  #33
Jacko95
Registered User
 
Jacko95's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Country: Germany
Posts: 1,753
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by setkreiderfree View Post
This trade is so stupid from the Rangers view it's mind boggling. One, Connolly stinks. He can't skate which is why he will never be a good NHL player. Two, it's beyond dumb to trade a guy for a decent prospect who 2 years ago under an imbecile offensive head coach was a couple of points away from being in the top 10 offensively for defenseman.

The incredible part is you actually have Tampa fans dumb enough to not want to do this deal which is truly mind boggling. The reality is when you look at that draft, Connolly was a bad pick. There are a ton of players taken after him who will all be a ton better. I would classify Koekkoek's play in the OHL as poor and that is being generous.

Fans need to do more research on the drafting history of teams. The Lightning when they aren't drafting in the top 3 are a terrible drafting organization. They are among the worst in all of hockey at drafting defenseman. I would not be interested in any defenseman they draft unless they were taken in the top 3.
You are mindblogging. The reality is you have never seen Connolly play in the AHL nor in his short NHL stint this season. He still has top line potential and his skating is not a problem at all. Many belief he will be the guy that gets send back because of the logjam we have with NHL ready young forwards, but he is on of the guys with the highest ceiling and NO Lightning fan is conscerend about his future at all.
Koekkoek was on a bad team and looked ipressive in rookie camp this year. He will need some time, but he is far away from being a bust.

ANd to your post about drafting:
You must have missed the last 4 or 5 years of hockey. Before you were absolutly right about the Lightnings drafting history, but just to get your brain right about this ling period you must have missed:

Alex Killorn 3rd round pick 2007 (most likely playing alongside MSL and Stammer next season)
Mark Barberio 6th round pick 2008 (AHL defender of the year 2012)
Richard Panik 2nd round pick 2009 (complete package top line ceiling, msot likely above average 2nd liner)
Jaroslav Janus 5th round pick 2009 (top5 goalie in the KHL as a rookie last season, has stated that he will come over after this season)
Radko Gudas 3rd rounder 2010 (bone crushing top4 defender)
Vlad Namestnikov 27th overall 2011 (solid AHL rookie campaign with impressive playoffs, played injured during regular season)
Nikita Kucherov 2nd rounder 2011 (2PPG player in the CHL, offensive ceiling is skyhigh)
Nikita Nesterov 5th rounder 2011 (already KHL as 19 year old, argubly Russias top defender in WJC, scouts opinion not mine !!)
Adam Wilcox 6th rounder 2011 (impressive rookie NCAA campaign, still a project)
Matt Peca 7th rounder 2011 (early Hoby Baker candidate for this season, again scouts opinion!!)
Ondrej Palat 7th rounder 2011 (great first NHL stint this season, most likely top9 full time this season. Great PK and defensive play)

Already looking great from 2012: Vasya, Koekkoek (needs to be seen how good he is after injury, but Org is still high on him, just needs more time), Brian Hart had a great NCAA rookie year has the looks of Killorn 2.0, Richard and Paquette had great CHL seasons, promising guys for bottom6 jobs sooner than later. Heard everything about Blujus from very impressive, but not flashy, to disappointing and Gusev had a great rookie season in the KHL.

PLEASE tell me how that is NOT good drafting. And our track record with undrafted guys is the best in the whole NHL (not only do we sign the most highly talented guys, but develop them pretty successfull as well).

So please troll away and learn something about the NHL and their teams before you make such ridicously false comments.


Last edited by DaveG: 07-30-2013 at 07:09 AM.
Jacko95 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-30-2013, 06:23 AM
  #34
Rschmitz
Registered User
 
Rschmitz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Tampa Bay
Country: United States
Posts: 4,424
vCash: 500
To echo what everyone else has said in this thread, I like MDZ but he doesn't fit on the Lightning. Biron and Pyatt are arbitrary, and the Bolts give up way too much value.

A shutdown guy like Girardi would be great, but I think Yzerman is content with icing our current defensive core and waiting on guys to develop. He won't be dealing multiple pieces of value for a guy like Girardi, considering we finished 28th overall last year.

Rschmitz is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-30-2013, 06:34 AM
  #35
richardsequalscup*
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 926
vCash: 500
There is a reason Tampa has drafted in the top 10, 5 out of the last 6 years and in the top 6, 4 out of the last 6 years. They don't draft well. When an organization doesn't draft well, I'm not giving their prospects much credit until I see that organization produce NHL quality players for 3-4 years from their draft picks.

richardsequalscup* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-30-2013, 07:00 AM
  #36
Jacko95
Registered User
 
Jacko95's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Country: Germany
Posts: 1,753
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by setkreiderfree View Post
There is a reason Tampa has drafted in the top 10, 5 out of the last 6 years and in the top 6, 4 out of the last 6 years. They don't draft well. When an organization doesn't draft well, I'm not giving their prospects much credit until I see that organization produce NHL quality players for 3-4 years from their draft picks.
You might have heard of that guy Yzerman that changed our organization completly and it s blind to not look at prospects, just because a org has drafted bad under previous GMs. Prospects still need time to develop. If a GM would think the way you do, he would not last a single year. If you take over the job of a GM from a bad drafting team, you basically say, you would have to trade all picks away, because this team has not drafted good before. This is the most ignorant opinion I have seen around here.
And by the way we have produced Panik, Palat and Gudas already as full time NHlers out of the last 4 drafts, thats already solid and thats just the beginning.


Last edited by Jacko95: 07-30-2013 at 07:06 AM.
Jacko95 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-30-2013, 07:03 AM
  #37
tony d
The man
 
tony d's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Behind A Tree
Country: Canada
Posts: 32,461
vCash: 500
Tampa might need goalie help but I doubt they go for a guy who will be 36 when the season starts and is more or less a career backup.

__________________
People got to learn how to use punctuation. On our radio ads the other day a black man's wallet was reported as missing. Instead of a man's wallet black in colour missing a black man's wallet is missing.
tony d is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-30-2013, 07:49 AM
  #38
bassassin
Registered User
 
bassassin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: England
Country: England
Posts: 5,387
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by richardsequalscup* View Post
There is a reason Tampa has drafted in the top 10, 5 out of the last 6 years and in the top 6, 4 out of the last 6 years. They don't draft well. When an organization doesn't draft well, I'm not giving their prospects much credit until I see that organization produce NHL quality players for 3-4 years from their draft picks.
Their AHL team comprised mainly of prospects won the Calder Cup in 2011, made the finals in 2012.

The past 2 AHL MVPs have been Lightning prospects.

A lot of Tampas prospects made the jump last season, Johnson, Gudas, Palat, Panik and Killorn all seeing extended time with the club. To say they don't draft well was once true, give them a couple of seasons to prove themselves at the NHL level, im confident they will prove you wrong.

bassassin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-30-2013, 07:58 AM
  #39
Championship*
#Joel&Ellie
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,503
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Chreider View Post
Girardi + Pyatt (cap reasons) + 2nd for Purcell + Salo?
The jump to conclusion mat of trade proposals right here

Championship* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-30-2013, 08:24 AM
  #40
Jacko95
Registered User
 
Jacko95's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Country: Germany
Posts: 1,753
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony d View Post
Tampa might need goalie help but I doubt they go for a guy who will be 36 when the season starts and is more or less a career backup.
No we don't.

We have to good young goalies with starter potential now and Vasilevski will come over next summer and will be ready within his first season in the AHL. If Bishop nor Lindbäck is the answer, we jsut wait for Vasya.

Jacko95 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-30-2013, 08:35 AM
  #41
HoseEmDown
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,054
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by richardsequalscup* View Post
There is a reason Tampa has drafted in the top 10, 5 out of the last 6 years and in the top 6, 4 out of the last 6 years. They don't draft well. When an organization doesn't draft well, I'm not giving their prospects much credit until I see that organization produce NHL quality players for 3-4 years from their draft picks.
We may have drafted really high those 6 years but we also came closer to reaching the Stanley Cup finals then you did. What we don't have that you do and why you have been a better team is Lundquist, if we had a Vezinq type goalie with our offense it would be deadly.

HoseEmDown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-30-2013, 08:56 AM
  #42
Trxjw
Moderator
Bored.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 15,803
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by JC704 View Post
Del Zotto is easily the most valuable piece in this deal. It would take Connolly and a 2nd at the moment to get Del Zotto out of NY (The comparable in my head at the moment is the Turris for Rundblad + 2nd swap Ottawa and Phoenix made way back).

Problem is, TB does not need Del Zotto at all. They would have Del Zotto and Carle on a pairing and I believe Carle would probably be better suited with somebody a little more stay-at-home.
Turris was a contract hold-out who hadn't lived up to expectations yet. It would take more than Connolly and a 2nd to get Del Zotto out of NY, and that's coming from a guy who is pretty high on Connolly.

That being said, I don't think these teams make good trading partners.

Trxjw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-30-2013, 09:47 AM
  #43
HoseEmDown
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,054
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Turris was a contract hold-out who hadn't lived up to expectations yet. It would take more than Connolly and a 2nd to get Del Zotto out of NY, and that's coming from a guy who is pretty high on Connolly.

That being said, I don't think these teams make good trading partners.
Del Zotto is not the second coming of Orr, he's a good young PMD but he's not worth Connolly + 2nd. Connolly would slot in right away on one of the top 2 lines and can see 25 goals. I think the value in the two is similar but we don't need a player like Del Zotto and you need a player like Connolly more.

HoseEmDown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-30-2013, 10:48 AM
  #44
Gardner McKay
Hey Hey...
 
Gardner McKay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Abingdon, VA
Country: United States
Posts: 8,937
vCash: 1000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sick Rash View Post
Rangers get:

LW Brett Connolly
D Slater Koekkoek


Lightning get:

D Michael Del Zotto
G Martin Biron
LW Taylor Pyatt
Dude your proposals are almost at bad as Bernmeisters. Why would either team do this. It makes no sense.

__________________
"Never approach a bull from the front, a horse from the rear or a fool from any direction."

Last edited by Gardner McKay: 07-30-2013 at 01:53 PM.
Gardner McKay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-30-2013, 11:12 AM
  #45
Mats Zuccarelli
NY Hockey Rangers
 
Mats Zuccarelli's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Manhattan
Country: United States
Posts: 1,570
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clowe Me Maybe View Post
Dude your proposals are almost at bad as Bernmeisters. Please stop embarrassing us.
Yessir

Mats Zuccarelli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-30-2013, 12:41 PM
  #46
eco's bones
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Elmira NY
Country: United States
Posts: 11,612
vCash: 500
I'm pretty sure I would trade Del Zotto for Connolly and a 2nd and maybe even Del Zotto for Purcell. Personally Del Zotto's value depends mostly on how much offense he creates. He's very average in his own end. He plays a physical game but because of his size and strength he's not really a physical player. He really needs to step up the offense and push past this 40 point plateau he seems to be stuck at and I'm not really sure he's capable. For those Lightning fans out there Del Zotto and Stamkos go back a long way.

Girardi OTOH is not going anywhere. He's just a solid guy and our anchor on the right side of our defense. Hate to break it to some people--who never seem to get it but he's truly a key player for the New York Rangers. Replacing him with a 40 year old Salo--that's just stupid.

eco's bones is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-30-2013, 01:12 PM
  #47
CoopThereItIs
Here we go Lightning
 
CoopThereItIs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: location location
Country: United States
Posts: 4,222
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Yzerman View Post
This is a user who doesn't know the subject, but still feels obliged to talk about it. Hockeyprospectus rated the Tampa organization as the top prospect pool in the league and yet we should have a better prospect pool because they've drafted in the top 10.
It's classic HF, really. Hear one little tidbit about a player a couple years ago from someone who doesn't know the whole picture, and go with it. Stigmatized player from the ignorant.

CoopThereItIs is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-30-2013, 01:20 PM
  #48
Trxjw
Moderator
Bored.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 15,803
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoseEmDown View Post
Del Zotto is not the second coming of Orr, he's a good young PMD but he's not worth Connolly + 2nd. Connolly would slot in right away on one of the top 2 lines and can see 25 goals. I think the value in the two is similar but we don't need a player like Del Zotto and you need a player like Connolly more.
Who said anything about the second coming of Orr? It really isn't even an issue of value. The Rangers need an established top-six forward if they were to trade Del Zotto and Connolly isn't that yet. Could he be? Sure, but it's not worth the risk. Rangers have enough scoring issues without trading their highest scoring defender for a prospect.

Trxjw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-30-2013, 01:36 PM
  #49
robertguess2013
Registered User
 
robertguess2013's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: New Port Richey Fl
Country: United States
Posts: 4,570
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to robertguess2013 Send a message via MSN to robertguess2013 Send a message via Yahoo to robertguess2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sick Rash View Post
Yessir
I understand your asking for this trade in first place is just based on what you heard.

Do not take too much offense.

If some fans have knocked down connolly's value know that the organization hasnt and he has done just fine in their eyes and that is all that truly matters.

The same thing can be said of KoekKoek the organization is not down on him. He just ran into an injury.

So you heard certain things said probably by our board members whom some can be kinda clueless it seems at times.

Connolly comes up in a huge amount of trade talks basically cause he is a few years removed from draft a high draft pick and has played in nhl for a large amount of games etc.. not because we are down on him.

Am sure there are fans of Tampa whom have already written off Connolly. To me I am fan of detroit and Tampa. Tampa is rebuilding their core etc.. so can bring kids up earlier but detroit since datsyuk and zetterburg signings have only really brought people up at 23-24 and defenders at 24 to 26 years of age.

Case in point is tatar is coming up this year for detroit at 22 but he wont get the time of nyquist whom will be 24. Tatar is gonna get a shot earlier than anyone in a long time though.

Connolly is 21 to me keeping him down another full year is probably a good thing. Yet he could play now I have no concerns on him.

KoekKoek truly is impressive has all the skills. Goaltending we might take a flyer at a legit top 10 prospect in trade from someone? Yet dont see a veteran being sought at all in any deal.

Del Zotto might be good but he is truly not a fit and is others whom are better etc.. if going to start talking about losing pieces like a connolly or two good pieces both top 10 picks in last three years? I would think if did that you would go after a top 10 d man and add a early pick.

Am sure you realize even though Del Zotto does hit he is not a shut down d man an his weakness is his d.

Also I wonder after the purcell thread and this one. How come you guys whom offer these trades in NY seem to think is ok to get rid of your headaches and not look at the same side of things for the team your offering.

Case in point all three guys you offered are one year guys? Del Zotto you have protection but he is getting a new contract his age stats says if is not injured he gets a five year deal basically at 5 million.

The other two are UFA's pyatt is seriously useless? He is 31 has never broken 25 points in a season? What good is he?

I wont call biron useless he is a good backup and might even be capable starter is just he hasnt done that in 5 years.

So basically you move out 5.1 million in salary and dont need to cough up for del zotto next year what is gonna be required?

I dont understand? If you wanted to drop salary makes some sense but you have 3.3 still available so dont see why? Without looking I think koekkoek is probably getting like 800k and know connolly gets 1.6 so that is 2.4 so your saving 3.7 with 3.3 are you after someone like vanek?

Gm's which talk to us probably know a lot more on our prospects and doubt the connolly or koekkoek for this or that even come up.

Del zotto justin falk michael st croix and calle andersson for connolly and zoekzoek I would do.

Starting top four defender for us wish was better on own d a physical d in justin an interesting prospect whom might make it in 2-3 years and plays center in st croix and a kid whom might just develop into greatness as a defender andersson he has serious upside and is moving up quickly overall have to get him over to ahl and see what he can do but has the body and hockey IQ to be a truly good defender all around and he is a hitter whom can score. Wish Justin Falk would match his size ability with hitting but he is fighter

robertguess2013 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-30-2013, 01:41 PM
  #50
CM Lundqvist
Best In The World
 
CM Lundqvist's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 8,117
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoseEmDown View Post
Del Zotto is not the second coming of Orr, he's a good young PMD but he's not worth Connolly + 2nd. Connolly would slot in right away on one of the top 2 lines and can see 25 goals. I think the value in the two is similar but we don't need a player like Del Zotto and you need a player like Connolly more.
I haven't seen a post this ridiculous in quite some time...

1. Who said Del Zotto is the next coming of Bobby Orr? Because you can't understand that his value is higher than a hold out who was drafted the year before him doesn't mean that us Ranger fans think he's the next coming of Bobby Orr. Believe it or not, despite many Ranger fans using him as a scapegoat, he's scored at 35+ point pace in 3 of his 4 seasons, including a 10 goal 40 point year in his 3rd year that got him considerable Norris votes with Staal out of the line up for half the season. We don't think he's Bobby Orr, but we know he's worth a hell of a lot more than what Kyle Turris returned.

2. Brett Connolly has scored 5 goals and 16 points over 73 career NHL games and because of a 30-goal, 60-point season in the AHL, he's now a lock for top-6 minutes and 25 goals??? Where do you get this stuff from????

CM Lundqvist is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:18 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.