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Daly: Pacific Northwest will get "serious consideration" for expansion/relocation

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07-30-2013, 05:22 AM
  #151
BROOKLYnKNIGHTS
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Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post
Yes, because comparing the failure of team that existed nearly 100 years and in a world where their dollar was worth 65% of most of the teams they played against has some sort of correlation with Atlanta and their failure as a hockey market. They should get another chance because they are a hockey mad market that would immediately and religiously support their team, much like Winnipeg.
I have to agree! Bring back the Nordiques. We have enough American teams. Need more Canadian cities.

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07-30-2013, 06:24 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
Seattle
Portland
Sacramento


Let's get going.
Yea countless of teams are in fiancial dire straight, let's expand in places where there's no demand in the real World. NHL should be contracting teams.

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07-30-2013, 08:01 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by JuniorNelson View Post
The NHL will probably do the weird thing as well as the prudent thing. So, while prudently adding Canadian revenue, they will also try to open new markets. I think empty facilities in KC and Las Vegas are going to be tenanted because incentives will force the issue.
Junior,

In regard to KC, I don't believe it will ever happen. City Government there has wisely found out that Sprint Center makes a profit for them without a professional franchise, either NBA or NHL. If a team came, the only way the team could make it is to get all the revenue from the arena, so it would cost the city big bucks. The City doesn't want that.

KC is off the table.

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07-30-2013, 08:20 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
Sacramento's larger than most people give it credit (larger than Portland's metro area, an oft-mentioned candidate for the NHL), but I'm doubting that Sacramento is legitimately on any other league's radar at this point. Maybe Major League Baseball if they built an MLB-sized stadium, but then again the same thing could be said about a half dozen other cities, too.
Problem with Sacto is, unlike Portland, hockey is basically non-existent in the area. Ice rinks are few and far between. There's not even any low level minor league hockey in the area, I think the closest team to them would be the ECHL team in Stockton.

When they get that new arena built, it might be a decent place to test a minor league team to see how that draws and perhaps lay the ground work for something bigger in a few decades.

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07-30-2013, 08:32 AM
  #155
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
Yea countless of teams are in fiancial dire straight, let's expand in places where there's no demand in the real World. NHL should be contracting teams.
Please, you have no earthly idea about whether there is demand in those markets.

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Originally Posted by IceAce View Post
Problem with Sacto is, unlike Portland, hockey is basically non-existent in the area. Ice rinks are few and far between. There's not even any low level minor league hockey in the area, I think the closest team to them would be the ECHL team in Stockton.

When they get that new arena built, it might be a decent place to test a minor league team to see how that draws and perhaps lay the ground work for something bigger in a few decades.
It doesn't have to be ice rinks to be hockey interest. There are rec roller hockey aplenty in the area. The market is exposed to San Jose Sharks hockey on television. There are a lot of transplants in the region. It's tough to really gauge the interest in an NHL franchise here simply because the minor leagues weren't coming here until the new arena was built. Arco was built too much on the cheap to allow that. I agree that a minor league test may happen but I don't agree with it being much of a signal for anything.

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07-30-2013, 09:20 AM
  #156
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But you can't just put the NHL right there as your test in the test market when there are other areas who have shown as much interest and have a history with a hockey team already.

There is no way Sac should get a team before QBC, Seattle, or Portland if any of them have any interest.

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07-30-2013, 09:37 AM
  #157
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NHL want a riot and a boycott of their product in Quebec, well, just put 2 expensions franchise in Portland and Seattle and see what happens ahah

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07-30-2013, 11:04 AM
  #158
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Originally Posted by CerebralGenesis View Post
But you can't just put the NHL right there as your test in the test market when there are other areas who have shown as much interest and have a history with a hockey team already.

There is no way Sac should get a team before QBC, Seattle, or Portland if any of them have any interest.
True enough. I don't think, however, that PF is suggesting that Sac should or even could get a team before these other cities (correct me, PF, if I am misinterpreting your feelings on this subject); he is merely suggesting that Sac is not a laughable location for the NHL to consider, as some on these boards seem to think it is.

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Old
07-30-2013, 11:22 AM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Apocalyptic Mist View Post
Portland/ Seattle for expansion and if Phx fails move them to Houston. Quebec city had 2 franchises leave their city... (1st time was a fire in the arena, other time was being cheap/broke) same failure rate as atlanta btw... Why should they get another chance? if the nhl wants to grow the sport, what better places than seattle, portland and houston? Instant rivalries will be made with vancouver, portland and seattle... same with dallas/ houston. bigger markets, more new potential fans exposed to this game and imo better for the league as a whole as it is already on a steady rise.
I would have to agree with these 3 cities for expansion, relocation. However, I would choose Seattle and Houston for expansion and Portland for relocation. That would provide Houston and Seattle with geographic rivalries to start with (Dallas and Vancouver respectively). If things don't work out in Phoenix after 5 years, then relocating them to Portland would be a good option and it would also keep the conferences balanced with 16 teams in each.

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07-30-2013, 11:44 AM
  #160
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Originally Posted by flapanthersfan View Post
Here's what the NHL needs to do:

Expand to Quebec and Seattle/Portland

Get rid of the East/West conferences. Rename them, so they are not geographically based. (like the NFL with AFC and NFC)

Then you have 8 divisions of 4 teams - just like the NFL does (the most successful business model)

"Wales conference"

Division 1: (all new york teams)
Rangers
Islanders
Devils
Sabres


Division 2 (you could trade Boston into this division for Ottawa if you want to save the Habs/Bruins rivalry)
Maple Leafs
Canadiens
Nordiques <-- Red Wings
Senators

Division 3
Bruins
Penguins
Flyers
Blue Jackets

Division 4
Capitals
Panthers
Hurricanes
Lightning

"Campbell Conference"

Division 1:
Detroit <-- Winnipeg
Chicago
Minnesota
St. Louis

Division 2:
Colorado
Dallas
Phoenix <--Houston
Nashville

Division 3
Anaheim
Los Angeles
San Jose
Portland/Seattle <--Phoenix

Division 4:
Winnipeg <--Seattle
Vancouver
Edmonton
Calgary.

Boom.
Not a bad idea with the divisions listed above. However, like others I prefer geographic names for the conferences (Eastern & Western). As noted above, I would move the Red Wings to the division with the Maple Leafs, Canadiens and Senators and then move Winnipeg into Detroit's place with Chicago, Minnesota and St. Louis. Phoenix could be moved to the division with Anaheim, Los Angeles and San Jose. A new team in Houston could replace Phoenix in the division with Colorado, Dallas and Nashville. A new team in Seattle would replace Winnipeg's spot in the division with Vancouver, Edmonton and Calgary.

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Old
07-30-2013, 11:48 AM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Kimota View Post
Yea countless of teams are in fiancial dire straight, let's expand in places where there's no demand in the real World. NHL should be contracting teams.
You have QC, Hamilton, Markham, Seattle, and Portland available. There is also Cleveland and Houston on the next tier. No need to contract when those markets are underserved.

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07-30-2013, 12:15 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
Sacramento's larger than most people give it credit (larger than Portland's metro area, an oft-mentioned candidate for the NHL), but I'm doubting that Sacramento is legitimately on any other league's radar at this point. Maybe Major League Baseball if they built an MLB-sized stadium, but then again the same thing could be said about a half dozen other cities, too.
Yeah but one of the problems you have with state capitals is that you have a transient population as people come and go with the changes in administration.

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07-30-2013, 01:02 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by LouisOlivier View Post
NHL want a riot and a boycott of their product in Quebec, well, just put 2 expensions franchise in Portland and Seattle and see what happens ahah
I think the NHL would gladly take riots in Quebec if they could put teams in Seattle and Portland.

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07-30-2013, 01:59 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by AdmiralsFan24 View Post
I think the NHL would gladly take riots in Quebec if they could put teams in Seattle and Portland.
Also, I think the fans there would continue to buy the merchandise of the Montreal Canadiens as they have always done.

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07-30-2013, 02:14 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by aqib View Post
You have QC, Hamilton, Markham, Seattle, and Portland available. There is also Cleveland and Houston on the next tier. No need to contract when those markets are underserved.
Certainly if the NHL ever gets desperate there will be options available. And the League will have to get very damn desperate before it ever considers contraction. Contraction is just a dream that some people around here have.

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Originally Posted by AdmiralsFan24 View Post
I think the NHL would gladly take riots in Quebec if they could put teams in Seattle and Portland.
Now, there may well be various relocation options available in a scenario that the NHL got desperate for such; but there are currently not really that many highly likely expansion options. Portland and Houston do indeed look very attractive on certain levels, but neither city, or more correctly no potential owner in either city has shown particular interest in spending the big bucks necessary to get an expansion team. Now certainly things can change, but interest coming out of Houston hasn't been heard now for quite a long time, and Portland has primarily stepped up when it thought there might be a cheap relocated team to be had. In fact though, it doesn't necessarily have to do with the initial price tag, but also with the struggles of an expansion team until it really gets established. I believe in Portland's case it's more that any potential owners there would rather have a competitive coming in and not having to go through those early expansion struggles.

Any other expansion site, other than Seattle and Quebec City that is, would possibly be some smaller-sized city wanting to get its name on the major League map.

A lot of people in this thread seem to be desperately looking for some option other than QC, primarily because they don't want QC to mess up this pretty little alignment that the League has created. Hey, I'd absolutely love there to be both Portland and Seattle, but I'm still thinking that for the very near future Portland is still primarily a relocation option first, an expansion option second if potential owners there finally decide to take that route,... Of course, if they do, and do it well, the NHL will be all over it.

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07-30-2013, 02:19 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by AdmiralsFan24 View Post
I think the NHL would gladly take riots in Quebec if they could put teams in Seattle and Portland.
Actually, if Portland and Seattle got expansion teams, the NHL probably wouldn't care what Quebec City did.

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07-30-2013, 02:30 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by aqib View Post
Yeah but one of the problems you have with state capitals is that you have a transient population as people come and go with the changes in administration.
Valid point, though I don't think it'd be as pronounced as you would think considering how much larger Sacramento is compared to most other state capitals.

I'm sure it would have an affect, but not a critical one, imho.

That being said, still think that Sacramento's a big long-shot to become a two-sport market compared to other currently one-sport markets like San Antonio and Portland.

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07-30-2013, 02:39 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by MoreOrr View Post

Now, there may well be various relocation options available in a scenario that the NHL got desperate for such; but there are currently not really that many highly likely expansion options. Portland and Houston do indeed look very attractive on certain levels, but neither city, or more correctly no potential owner in either city has shown particular interest in spending the big bucks necessary to get an expansion team. Now certainly things can change, but interest coming out of Houston hasn't been heard now for quite a long time, and Portland has primarily stepped up when it thought there might be a cheap relocated team to be had. In fact though, it doesn't necessarily have to do with the initial price tag, but also with the struggles of an expansion team until it really gets established. I believe in Portland's case it's more that any potential owners there would rather have a competitive coming in and not having to go through those early expansion struggles.


A lot of people in this thread seem to be desperately looking for some option other than QC, primarily because they don't want QC to mess up this pretty little alignment that the League has created. Hey, I'd absolutely love there to be both Portland and Seattle, but I'm still thinking that for the very near future Portland is still primarily a relocation option first, an expansion option second if potential owners there finally decide to take that route,... Of course, if they do, and do it well, the NHL will be all over it.
I believe Houston was one of five locations that made a presentation before the league in 2007 along with Winnipeg. It could be that the prospective owners in a Houston bid are keeping it quiet for the time being (if there is still interest from that group). I know that Winnipeg kept things under wraps for a number of years up until the time TNSE purchased the Atlanta Thrashers in 2011.

In regards to Quebec, I think a lot of people just want to see some more teams in the west since there is such a concentration of teams in the east already and locations such as Houston, Seattle and Portland seem intriguing to them as new markets.

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07-30-2013, 02:53 PM
  #169
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Originally Posted by DowntownBooster View Post
I believe Houston was one of five locations that made a presentation before the league in 2007 along with Winnipeg. It could be that the prospective owners in a Houston bid are keeping it quiet for the time being (if there is still interest from that group). I know that Winnipeg kept things under wraps for a number of years up until the time TNSE purchased the Atlanta Thrashers in 2011.
Being totally honest here, but I've never before heard of any bids for expansion teams being made in 2007.

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07-30-2013, 02:58 PM
  #170
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Houston pre-recession is very different from Houston post-recession, though.

.... or, to be more accurate, Les Alexander's different before and after the recession. A NHL team in Houston has to go through him, and he's significantly less likely to be involved in one now than he was a few years ago when he had a few hundred million more dollars to his name.

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07-30-2013, 02:58 PM
  #171
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Did someone say Sacramento was larger than Portland?

http://www.census.gov/popest/data/me...EST2012-01.xls

(Yes, it's an excel spreadsheet)

Portland is growing a bit faster than Sacramento. Only minor issue is San Antonio and Orlando passing up Sacramento and growing nearly twice as fast as Portland.

(BTW, the "transient population in Sacramento" argument is rather funny... certainly can't be serious, no?)

Is the accusation about Allen waiting for a bargain accurate? Maybe so. Is there another way to please Allen and get NHL in there? All depends on Bill Gallacher.


Last edited by PCSPounder: 07-30-2013 at 03:00 PM. Reason: There's always another buffoon.
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Old
07-30-2013, 03:02 PM
  #172
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Being totally honest here, but I've never before heard of any bids for expansion teams being made in 2007.
I believe it was confirmed by Mark Chipman during the CBC post game coverage following the Jets home opener against the Canadiens in 2011. I will have to double-check if that is where it was mentioned but I do recall that Winnipeg was one of 5 locations that were invited to make a presentation to the league and I think Houston was one of the others that had been invited as well.

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07-30-2013, 03:05 PM
  #173
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eh, blame Wikipedia. They have Sacramento's metro area listed at just shy of 2.5 million and Portland's as about 2.25.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...rts_franchises

It's closer than most give the city credit, though. Doesn't change the fact that I think they're a long shot for a second major pro team compared to other markets.

As for Allen, tough to say. The report going around was that he putting in inquiries into the Yotes just a few months ago, albeit very quietly. No clue if he'd be all hands on deck for a team if the NHL announced a round of expansion.

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07-30-2013, 03:14 PM
  #174
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Valid point, though I don't think it'd be as pronounced as you would think considering how much larger Sacramento is compared to most other state capitals.

I'm sure it would have an affect, but not a critical one, imho.

That being said, still think that Sacramento's a big long-shot to become a two-sport market compared to other currently one-sport markets like San Antonio and Portland.
Its not much larger than Columbus and no one is talking about making Columbus a two team town.

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07-30-2013, 03:22 PM
  #175
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Its not much larger than Columbus and no one is talking about making Columbus a two team town.
Actually, Columbus' mayor did put into an inquiry into the NBA to gauge interest in bringing a team there a few years back. Went nowhere though, obviously.

Also, there's a tad of a difference considering the size of Ohio State's following in Columbus. For all intents and purposes, Columbus is already a three-sport market when you toss in Buckeyes football and basketball.

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