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Offer sheet Cody Franson

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07-30-2013, 07:16 AM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimson Skorpion View Post
I think every Leafs fan I have spoken with has said the same thing; Franson is not physical.

Yet, in this thread people are insisting he is. Why?
Because they look up his hit stats on nhl.com, probably. And not everybody has learned to take those with a grain of salt. I think Franson was more physical last season than he ever has been before, but that still doesn't make him a physical D in my mind. He has the size to be one. Questionable if he has the mobility to do it successfully, but at least if he finishes his check and pins players better, it's an improvement over his past persona. I just wouldn't know whether to expect that he's "learned" and is moving forward on incorporating that better into his game permanently, or if it was just a one-off on a shortened contract year when he was possibly fighting for his NHL life.

I'd take him at $1.5-$2.5M, on a short-term deal, but I wouldn't take the chance on him at something higher. I definitely wouldn't trade assets for him, not for our team anyway, when we have a reasonable collection of D hopefuls on hand already. If I had a glaring opening for a point man, it'd be different, he might look more like a risk worth taking, but that's not really the Habs' situation atm.

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07-30-2013, 09:33 AM
  #77
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How many 6'5" 230lbs guys, who are more physical than Franson put up 0.66 PPG?


We're talking a 2nd round pick people. Franson would be worth it, and would be an immediate upgrade in our top 4, especially with Emelin out.


And people saying they'd rather Carkner?

Carkner is a #6-#7 Dman. Franson is a legit second pairing guy. So what he could be meaner, he's still excellent. Plus we'd be hurting the Leafs.

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07-30-2013, 09:44 AM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
How many 6'5" 230lbs guys, who are more physical than Franson put up 0.66 PPG?


We're talking a 2nd round pick people. Franson would be worth it, and would be an immediate upgrade in our top 4, especially with Emelin out.


And people saying they'd rather Carkner?

Carkner is a #6-#7 Dman. Franson is a legit second pairing guy. So what he could be meaner, he's still excellent. Plus we'd be hurting the Leafs.
It would be a 1st and a 3rd round pick. I read that Franson wants 4M per year. I don't know if I would give him that let alone a 1st to do it.

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07-30-2013, 10:22 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Dagistitsyn View Post
It would be a 1st and a 3rd round pick. I read that Franson wants 4M per year. I don't know if I would give him that let alone a 1st to do it.
I think we could get him to bite on something like a 6 year, 20 million dollar deal.

The Leafs are going to lose him, I don't see anyway they can fit he and Kadri under the cap without trading someone, and Kadri is their priority.

A first and a 3rd would be tough, but that's what he'd net at a trade deadline. A 2nd rounder for him would be a major steal.

I do think Bergy is too classy to straight offer sheet him though. I think they'd work something out, something like a 2nd and a Thrower or an Ellis.


Franson's best attribute is his passing, his breakout pass is a thing of beauty and I think he'd be a fantastic fit here. The fact he's big and a righty are both bonuses.

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07-30-2013, 10:32 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Franson is so overrated.
This.

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07-30-2013, 04:29 PM
  #81
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I listed Franson as a 5th or 6th Dman with physicality only to be told he isn't physical despite the hits. Now either he's a 7th Dman or he's s... which is it EzPz, and he was thrown in on the deal for Lombardi's contract so the Leafs would absorb his $4 mil deal.

If in fact he's S... then why are people discussing it here?

There is no way he's worth a 1st round pick, possibly a 2nd, a late 2nd and a so/so prospect, is more than enough when the Leafs are going to lose him for nothing. The matter of contract and length is debatable and the Habs can wait for the next draft.

Keep the 2nd add it to any gained this season, hopefully a few from trades involving upcoming UFA's and move up in the first round of the 2014 draft. Hayden Fleury looks to be the next big name Dman out of the WHL he's LD and can be a top pairing Dman in the NHL.

To do this the Habs will need to trade for a couple of late 1st's or early 2nd's and draft Fleury. Fleury will give the Habs the youngest and quite possibly the best defence in the NHL other than Nashville, the stingiest defence.

That seems like the best possible solution, certainly better than debating over Cody Franson the 6th Dman if he was in Habland until Emelin comes back.

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07-30-2013, 04:51 PM
  #82
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Franson is good enough to be in demand from some teams with cap space, so there's never going to be a question of the Leafs getting nothing for him. Habs would have to pay an extra premium to get him from the Leafs, but they're also not one of the teams with the most need for him, so there's really no motivation to pay that premium. If Franson gets dealt, it'll be to some other team with a more clearly defined need for his type of player (puck-mover, 2nd tier offensive guy), both present tense and organizationally, a team that can afford to take a chance on him. Habs just aren't a fit, they aren't desperate enough for his type of player.

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07-30-2013, 05:18 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
Physical? Not another one.
In context to the post I was responding to, yes, Franson is more physical than Diaz and would be a significant upgrade.

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07-30-2013, 05:36 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimson Skorpion View Post
I think every Leafs fan I have spoken with has said the same thing; Franson is not physical.

Yet, in this thread people are insisting he is. Why?
The hit stat. Franson has 124 of them to his name this season. I think it's well known that the ACC loves to pump up the hit stat.

Franson had 76 of his 124 hits at home, which means he only had 48 hits away.

Sure, he was more physical this year than he was in previous seasons, but he still isn't a mean player at all. I would be interested in him, for the right price. He's more of the same (offensive defenceman), but he did improve his overall game quite a bit this season.

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07-30-2013, 06:08 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by That View Post
The hit stat. Franson has 124 of them to his name this season. I think it's well known that the ACC loves to pump up the hit stat.

Franson had 76 of his 124 hits at home, which means he only had 48 hits away.

Sure, he was more physical this year than he was in previous seasons, but he still isn't a mean player at all. I would be interested in him, for the right price. He's more of the same (offensive defenceman), but he did improve his overall game quite a bit this season.

Even if what you say is true, multiply 48 hits by two and you come up with 96 hits.

Only Canadiens player with more is Emelin with 110.

This kind of identifies a need of the Canadiens if a soft DMan from Toronto with inflated hit stats....even when they are "corrected".....still exceeds what we have here.

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07-30-2013, 06:39 PM
  #86
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Franson was never, ever a mean, gritty, physical defenseman. I don't know why certain people here are trying to make him as such. He's an offensive defenseman who isn't really known for using his size.

Heck, Franson was used with Fraser as the 5/6 pairing on the Leafs (with Phaneuf as their #1 and Gunnarsson as their #2). Suddenly, he becomes an upgrade in the Habs' Top 4!? Riiiight.

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07-30-2013, 07:43 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jedimyrmidon View Post
Franson was never, ever a mean, gritty, physical defenseman. I don't know why certain people here are trying to make him as such. He's an offensive defenseman who isn't really known for using his size.

Heck, Franson was used with Fraser as the 5/6 pairing on the Leafs (with Phaneuf as their #1 and Gunnarsson as their #2). Suddenly, he becomes an upgrade in the Habs' Top 4!? Riiiight.
Franson had 29 points during the regular season.

The Habs had Subban with 38 and Markov with 30.

Next was Diaz with 14 and Emelin with 12.

No, Franson could not be a second pairing DMan on this team.

In your opinion, is Diaz a second pairing DMan?

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07-30-2013, 08:33 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagistitsyn View Post
It would be a 1st and a 3rd round pick. I read that Franson wants 4M per year. I don't know if I would give him that let alone a 1st to do it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
I think we could get him to bite on something like a 6 year, 20 million dollar deal.

The Leafs are going to lose him, I don't see anyway they can fit he and Kadri under the cap without trading someone, and Kadri is their priority.

A first and a 3rd would be tough, but that's what he'd net at a trade deadline. A 2nd rounder for him would be a major steal.

I do think Bergy is too classy to straight offer sheet him though. I think they'd work something out, something like a 2nd and a Thrower or an Ellis.


Franson's best attribute is his passing, his breakout pass is a thing of beauty and I think he'd be a fantastic fit here. The fact he's big and a righty are both bonuses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
In context to the post I was responding to, yes, Franson is more physical than Diaz and would be a significant upgrade.
Quote:
Originally Posted by That View Post
The hit stat. Franson has 124 of them to his name this season. I think it's well known that the ACC loves to pump up the hit stat.

Franson had 76 of his 124 hits at home, which means he only had 48 hits away.

Sure, he was more physical this year than he was in previous seasons, but he still isn't a mean player at all. I would be interested in him, for the right price. He's more of the same (offensive defenceman), but he did improve his overall game quite a bit this season.
The way I see it is the Habs trade and get an upgrade, then at the deadline if it's not what they wanted trade and get a 1st and a 3rd. Using the draft picks with our own 1st to move up in the draft and get a surefire 1st or 2nd pairing Dman like Fleury or Neill.

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07-30-2013, 08:38 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Franson had 29 points during the regular season.

The Habs had Subban with 38 and Markov with 30.

Next was Diaz with 14 and Emelin with 12.

No, Franson could not be a second pairing DMan on this team.

In your opinion, is Diaz a second pairing DMan?
He also 6 points in 7 playoff games. Anyone who thinks Franson wouldn't instantaneously make us better is insane.

They should go check the Leafs board and see how they feel about losing Franson....


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07-30-2013, 08:50 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Franson had 29 points during the regular season.

The Habs had Subban with 38 and Markov with 30.

Next was Diaz with 14 and Emelin with 12.

No, Franson could not be a second pairing DMan on this team.

In your opinion, is Diaz a second pairing DMan?
Yeah, and Kadri was among the NHL's top scorers last season. Guess that makes him one of the Top 20 (or wherever he was) players in the NHL.

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07-30-2013, 10:58 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by jedimyrmidon View Post
Yeah, and Kadri was among the NHL's top scorers last season. Guess that makes him one of the Top 20 (or wherever he was) players in the NHL.
Kadri??

I asked if you thought Diaz is an NHL 2nd pairing DMan since you do not think that Franson is.

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07-30-2013, 11:20 PM
  #92
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Franson is a bottom pairing / PPQB. look at his TOI/G and compare a little more with his PPTOI/G.

the only reason why someone might think he's a 'top 4' dman is because the Leafs defense is atrocious when you remove Phaneuf, Gunnarsson and Gardiner.

Mike Kostka? top pairing dman? LOL.

Mark Fraser? he'd be a healthy scratch on the Habs.

Korbinian Holzer? yeah, you're asking 'who??'

Franson would not make us a better team by playing 16-18 minutes a game. he's not better than Diaz, Gorges or Emelin.

you want to pay ~$3M for someone to replace Bouillon? please, just pray the Leafs make the mistake of giving him big bucks and get their hands tied with more ****** contracts.

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07-30-2013, 11:21 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Kadri??

I asked if you thought Diaz is an NHL 2nd pairing DMan since you do not think that Franson is.
I think Diaz is good enough for a second pairing guy: he is smart, can skate, is good positionally and is good at passing.

The original point I brought up before you brought up Franson's point totals was that Franson is NOT a big crease-clearing rugged Dman who hits hard as some were portraying him to be. He is an offensive Dman (as may be seen by the point totals he put up), and the Habs already have enough of those. Could Diaz be replaced by a big guy like Franson? Sure. Doesn't really address the need for physicality, grit and nastiness though.

As for Kadri, yeah, ignore that comment. I didn't bring him up in the right context... but I am pretty sure Franson-Fraser played at the time as Kadri's line, which would explain Franson's high point totals, i.e., their production was tied together last season. Heck, Fraser looked like some defensive beast, which he isn't - if he were played in tougher situations, he wouldn't have fared so well.

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07-30-2013, 11:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sansabri View Post
Franson is a bottom pairing / PPQB. look at his TOI/G and compare a little more with his PPTOI/G.

the only reason why someone might think he's a 'top 4' dman is because the Leafs defense is atrocious when you remove Phaneuf, Gunnarsson and Gardiner.

Mike Kostka? top pairing dman? LOL.

Mark Fraser? he'd be a healthy scratch on the Habs.

Korbinian Holzer? yeah, you're asking 'who??'

Franson would not make us a better team by playing 16-18 minutes a game. he's not better than Diaz, Gorges or Emelin.

you want to pay ~$3M for someone to replace Bouillon? please, just pray the Leafs make the mistake of giving him big bucks and get their hands tied with more ****** contracts.
Good post.

I think Phaneuf suffered due to having to play with Kostka and Holzer. Not that it makes him any more mobile even when he's playing with a guy like Gunnarsson.

I don't think Mark Fraser would be a healthy scratch - he would look okay on the bottom pairing and would give the Habs a lot of toughness there, which may affect the way other teams perceive the Habs (currently, the other teams seem to go out of their way to try and injure them/be reckless because they're perceived as soft with little pushback).

But yeah, Fraser had a very high +/- and Franson was putting up near elite points... and Kadri was humming along at nearly a PPG all of a sudden... HMMM... Could these players somehow be related? Compare them to other more established elite NHL combos like Keith/Seabrook and Toews/Hossa/Kane/etc. Are Fraser-Franson and Kadri in the same league? Don't think so. So there must be other explanations for their very high production.

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07-30-2013, 11:49 PM
  #95
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The proof will be in the pudding, but y'all not believing in Franson are going to be proven WRONG.

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07-31-2013, 12:02 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
The proof will be in the pudding, but y'all not believing in Franson are going to be proven WRONG.
have you noticed that no other NHL team has made an offersheet on this guy.

that's a lot of people being wrong, you know.

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07-31-2013, 06:33 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
Franson had 29 points during the regular season.

The Habs had Subban with 38 and Markov with 30.

Next was Diaz with 14 and Emelin with 12.

No, Franson could not be a second pairing DMan on this team.

In your opinion, is Diaz a second pairing DMan?
So you determine your pairings based on points produced? Your fool-proof method means that Marc-Andre Bergeron was not only a first pairing defenseman in 2009-10 on the Canadiens, but he was their #1 defenseman.

This is a ridiculous way to determine pairings and frankly, if Cody Franson is in your Top 4, then you don't have a very good defensive unit.

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07-31-2013, 07:08 AM
  #98
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I hope Franson continues his progression... well, ok, not if he's still on the Leafs, but for his sake in general. And I think it's entirely possible that he will. Defensemen take time to mature, maybe he is just finally fulfilling the potential many of us felt he had all along. I just wouldn't gamble the requisite trade assets and salary dollars on that hope/possibility.

And I'm totally content having Diaz instead, they have similar qualities IMHO. Diaz is more mobile, Franson is bigger, but they both slot into about the same #5-ish role on a team, and have similar upside to emerge into something more if they show some of the things they showed last season with continued consistency. Since we already have Diaz, and since he's a whole bunch cheaper for now, I wouldn't consider going after Franson.

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07-31-2013, 11:43 AM
  #99
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Originally Posted by sansabri View Post
have you noticed that no other NHL team has made an offersheet on this guy.

that's a lot of people being wrong, you know.
You say this like offersheeting is common practise....

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07-31-2013, 04:11 PM
  #100
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You say this like offersheeting is common practise....
it is when a GM like Holmgren is around and in need of dmen...

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