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Old
07-29-2013, 01:40 PM
  #26
Robs789
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PuckyTheWhale View Post
I recently got one cause it looks cool, not worried about concussions cause im going to be playing in non-checking leagues for the rest of my life.
You can still get concussions in non-checking. Dumbasses will stick there elbows out all the time as a reflex when your pressuring them.

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07-29-2013, 02:59 PM
  #27
AIREAYE
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Originally Posted by Robs789 View Post
You can still get concussions in non-checking. Dumbasses will stick there elbows out all the time as a reflex when your pressuring them.
hehe well if it's a reflex, they can't help it now can they?

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07-30-2013, 09:08 AM
  #28
Jarick
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jsykes:

It may be true that different foams can return to shape quicker after an impact, but it hasn't been shown that it would have any impact on concussions.

If concussions are caused by rapid change of speed aka the brain hitting the skull, you need to smooth that speed change. Like a parachute would slow down a race car or sky diver. But there isn't that kind of time and space in hockey. I'm not sure the 1/8" of deflection of a foam is going to make any kind of difference, and no study has shown that to this point.

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07-30-2013, 09:54 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
jsykes:

It may be true that different foams can return to shape quicker after an impact, but it hasn't been shown that it would have any impact on concussions.

If concussions are caused by rapid change of speed aka the brain hitting the skull, you need to smooth that speed change. Like a parachute would slow down a race car or sky diver. But there isn't that kind of time and space in hockey. I'm not sure the 1/8" of deflection of a foam is going to make any kind of difference, and no study has shown that to this point.
What do you think the foam in a helmet is for then if its not to slow down the impact on the brain? That post makes no sense. And studies have shown that small deflections in foam can make huge differences. Maybe no testing has been done on hockey helmets, but in race, motorcycle and bike helmets it has been totally shown that different foams make a difference in protecting the head.

The foams in a helmet, regardless of a hockey, football, motorcycle, or bike is designed to help absorb an impact and decrease the deceleration that the head experiences, both protecting the skull from damage and the impact the brain sees within the skull. Thats it, that is their main function, nothing else.

Of course nothing can guarantee it will protect against all concussions, but you're completely and totally wrong if you do not believe that some helmets can do a BETTER job of preventing a concussion over another one.

Different kinds of foams react differently and have their own positives and negatives.

As was said, foams such as EPP (styrofoam type padding) does a wonderful job of absorbing high level impacts, that is why its the main protection and has been for decades in motorcycle, car racing and bike helmets.

However, the downside is it does this by actually compressing, breaking, and deforming. That is why all helmets mentioned above state VERY CLEARLY that the helmet is to be replaced after any kind of impact.

In a hockey helmet, it does the same thing, just not to the same extent cause usually the impacts are not as significant as a bike fall or motorcycle accident.

However, if it takes a hard hit, the EPP will NEVER be able to return to its previous state and have the same level of protection as before.

VN can rebound better than EPP and return to its level of protection better, but it has a lesser level to begin with. Which is why you'll sometimes see combo helmets with EPP behind VN. VN is comfy and absorbs lots of little impacts well, the EPP handles the big stuff better.

Cascade took their Seven technology to another level. Again, I'll bring in car examples. Tires are often used as padding in high impact corners in front of guardrails because of their ability to absorb impact and return to the same level of protection afterward (rubber has a lot of elasticity).

Seven acts much the same way, absorbing the impact and returning to form, thereby allowing it to handle multiple large impacts better than EPP. When I say multiple, I dont mean in one fall, I mean, you take a big hit tonight, your helmet is still in good enough shape to take another impact next week, or the week after.

Seven has its own issues because we all know nothing is perfect.

But again, all have their own strengths and depending on what you're looking for in a helmet, one may save your head from a concussion in one kind of impact, but not in another, its all a trade off unless we want to skate in helmets as heavy as motorcycle helmets.

But you're flat out wrong if you do not believe that one helmet and design can be better than another, especially if tested in the kind of test it was designed for.

Unless a testing program will take into account all kinds of impacts at different levels of impact, we dont know what is the best or if there is one helmet that will help against the majority of them or not.

Basic testing drops the helmet from a specified height with a specified weight in it and it must absorb X amount of force.

Well, all the helmets meet that standard. But what if helmet A can absorb X+Y amount of force while helmet B can only absorb X? We'll never know since there isnt testing for it, but that would indicate that helmet A has a better chance of protecting you if your impact exceeds X force?

So there are differences and some helmets are better than others, the issue is without better testing we can only use our own opinions and knowledge to guess which ones they might be.

All that said, I use a basic CCM V08 helmet which is VN foam. I love it and feel it does what I need it to do and am happy with it. I dont believe it will protect in a very large impact as well as some of the helmets that use EPP, but I accept that.

That is what everyone needs to decide on their own.

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07-30-2013, 10:03 AM
  #30
AIREAYE
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Originally Posted by jsykes View Post
That is what everyone needs to decide on their own.
Hehe and we're back to square one with helmets

I noticed that both of you simplified a 'concussion' to be caused by the decceleration of the brain against the skull, which isn't incorrect, BUT there's still that can of worms in that concussions are things that are still not fully understood by medical professionals and differ from person to person. Essentially, there's still a lot of research that needs to be done to examine the synergy between helmet and head.

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07-30-2013, 11:37 AM
  #31
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You're right, concussions are different for all people and can be caused in, seemingly, infinite different ways.

Its too bad that there is not better testing and approvals in the hockey helmet industry.

For instance, in bike, car and motorcycle helmets you have the SNELL testing, which is an independent test that has higher ratings and restrictions than the standard government ANSI testing.

A helmet does not have to have the SNELL approval like it does the ANSI testing, however, you know as a consumer if it has the SNELL approval, it is a higher standard of protection than something that simply meets ANSI testing. Manufacturers have to pay SNELL to do the testing and get the approval so its a much added selling point and is required for certain things.

For instance, ANSI just tests impact ratings, but SNELL goes farther. A motorcycle helmet receives an "M" SNELL rating and must meet certain peripheral vision requirements and are weighted more to one single very significant impact (like falling off a motorcycle).

An "SA" or special application SNELL rating is required by most auto racing bodies because the testing looks more into fire resistance (for being stuck in a burning car, not something a motorcycle generally faces) and being able to handle a different kind of impact, because a car crash will result in the driving hitting his head on roll cages and steering wheels rather than against the pavement at 150 mph.

So its a further testing that takes into account specific kinds of protection based on the helmets use.

It would be great to have something like that in hockey that can help narrow down all these different kinds of helmets and rate them better based on their safety and does a Re-Akt, for example, do a better job than a basic 2100 helmet.

The bottom line though is that fit is still the most important thing in a helmet. If it fits it will certainly protect. Now, if two helmets fit equally well, do your research on how the helmet is constructed and make your own decision on whether one will provide you better protection or not. But make sure they fit first and foremost.

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07-30-2013, 12:10 PM
  #32
AIREAYE
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsykes View Post
The bottom line though is that fit is still the most important thing in a helmet. If it fits it will certainly protect. Now, if two helmets fit equally well, do your research on how the helmet is constructed and make your own decision on whether one will provide you better protection or not. But make sure they fit first and foremost.
The golden rule; penultimate guideline. The answer to all 'what helmet should I get?' questions.

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