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Offseason Thread Part IV - Let's Make A Deal

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Old
07-30-2013, 01:28 PM
  #926
NYR Viper
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
He 100% saw it coming. If he was surprised that a physical player was going to play him physically, then that is a bigger problem.

He completely knew it was coming and was made to look foolish.
Do you know how many times plays like that end with the guy going around the back of the net with no contact? Probably 99x/100.

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07-30-2013, 01:28 PM
  #927
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
I just dont even see what the lines are going to look like, it appears we will once again have players who don't excel in their roles.
Welcome to Sather world.

To coach, "Heres 12 forwards and a couple of kids. Make it work, because if you don't Ill fire you ass to save mine."

Look no further than the centers on this team. At first glance we have 5 of them - great, right? Not when you realize not one of them seems to be able to fill the 3rd line center role.

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07-30-2013, 01:31 PM
  #928
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I can't help but wonder what this team would be shaping up as if we weren't constantly shuffling big names in and out. Each year our kids seem to be the reliable ones and they continue to take on larger roles. Each year we see a large number of hired guns **** the bed. You would think they'd figure it out by now.

I like the Pouliot signing in a vacuum, but it's strange in the grand scheme of things. Is he just a guy the Rangers are comfortable with as a fill-in who can start the year on the ice and finish it on the bench if a kid takes a leap forward? Seems like too much foresight to ask of this group.
Kreider and Miller were probably the worst players on the team last year. Counting on kids filling important roles is risky.

Hagelin and McDonagh weren't given their spots, they beat out other guys.

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07-30-2013, 01:32 PM
  #929
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
He 100% saw it coming. If he was surprised that a physical player was going to play him physically, then that is a bigger problem.

He completely knew it was coming and was made to look foolish.
Not nearly as foolish as you nitpicking this stuff against a player thats a very good 4th liner.

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07-30-2013, 01:35 PM
  #930
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Thats how I see it shaping up. I think a kid or two gets a cup of coffee if/when Callahan and Hagelin are recovering to start the season.

Again, I dont know how I feel. Its hedging moreso than committing to a direction, which is par for the course. The silver lining is perhaps Sather is learning his lesson - the Sather of old would've signed Pouliot for 3 years. This, of course, is a lesson he should'nt have had to learn in the first place.
Last year we penciled in Kreider and he wasn't ready. We gave Miller a spot and he wasn't ready. We lacked sufficient depth. I'd rather have too many players than too few.

Why should we go into training camp with the roster already set? Why shouldn't we create competition for spots? I don't see the problem.

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07-30-2013, 01:37 PM
  #931
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Welcome to Sather world.

To coach, "Heres 12 forwards and a couple of kids. Make it work, because if you don't Ill fire you ass to save mine."

Look no further than the centers on this team. At first glance we have 5 of them - great, right? Not when you realize not one of them seems to be able to fill the 3rd line center role.
Boyle actually has been that, and done a fine job in that role. The problem is many here simply dont like it because he doesnt produce enough offense.

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07-30-2013, 01:42 PM
  #932
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
Boyle actually has been that, and done a fine job in that role. The problem is many here simply dont like it because he doesnt produce enough offense.
If he produces like 2012-13, then he shouldn't be on the 4th line. If he produces at 2011-12 levels (and I think he will), I would have no problem with it.

I wouldn't rule out Dom Moore being a capable 3rd line center either.

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07-30-2013, 01:53 PM
  #933
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Do you know how many times plays like that end with the guy going around the back of the net with no contact? Probably 99x/100.
When we are watching the Rangers play, absolutely.

We have no one on Defence that plays with any real snarl and most of the forwards play with a passive mentality as well.

The Rangers punish no one.

No team in the league is concerned about paying the price when they come in our building.

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07-30-2013, 01:54 PM
  #934
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
Last year we penciled in Kreider and he wasn't ready. We gave Miller a spot and he wasn't ready. We lacked sufficient depth. I'd rather have too many players than too few.

Why should we go into training camp with the roster already set? Why shouldn't we create competition for spots? I don't see the problem.
I dont disagree. Its a step in the right direction especially considering the short term given to these plugs.

And while I support the framework, I still see a big problem when it comes to roster construction and the roles that make up a successful hockey team. I see less of a direction/style of play and more of dumping a bunch of bodies into the mix and letting the chips fall where they may.

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07-30-2013, 01:55 PM
  #935
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Always enjoy a good Boyle falling down argument.

Ignoring the fact that its impact on a game is questionable, how about the pure physics. It's a lot easier for a 6-7 guy to have his center of balance knocked off than a 6-0 guy or shorter. Especially when skates are factored in. Also factor in that is easier to build leg muscle mass (on a relative basis to limb length/body size) as a smaller guy. And the situation is just what it is.

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07-30-2013, 02:00 PM
  #936
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Not nearly as foolish as you nitpicking this stuff against a player thats a very good 4th liner.
It's not nit picking.

complaining that hs 55% winning percentage at the dots is not 56%

Complaining that this team, starting with the biggest guy on the team is passive as fudge is not nit-picking.

We have less than a handfull of guys that get after the game physically.

Callahan - and it's going to take a swift and significant toll on his body which is why most here wouldn't want to give him a 6-7 year deal.

Asham - Old and beat down. Back is shot and will be an IR visitor 2-3 times during his brief tenure

Dorsett - Need 5-6 guys that are in the line up to mirror his mentality of getting after the opponent and physically seperating the player from the puck.

Unfortunately we do not have players that possess that mindset.

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07-30-2013, 02:06 PM
  #937
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
Ignoring the fact that its impact on a game is questionable, how about the pure physics.
Physics is a little too exact of a science for the "Look at Boyle fall down" crowd.

I can't wait until we start discussing how the manner in which he wins faceoffs in inadequate.

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07-30-2013, 02:14 PM
  #938
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
Always enjoy a good Boyle falling down argument.

Ignoring the fact that its impact on a game is questionable, how about the pure physics. It's a lot easier for a 6-7 guy to have his center of balance knocked off than a 6-0 guy or shorter. Especially when skates are factored in. Also factor in that is easier to build leg muscle mass (on a relative basis to limb length/body size) as a smaller guy. And the situation is just what it is.

With all do respect, I rarely see a Chara, or a Thornton, or even a Bertuzzi (when he was good) fall down. Balance on the ice is more a matter of finding a center of gravity- while, while perhaps easier for a smaller guy, is not necessarily much more difficult for a strong, tall player.

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07-30-2013, 02:20 PM
  #939
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
No, he's allowed to go down.

The problem I have is the ratio in which he is the one picking himself up off the ice is greater than the guy he's hitting.

Boyle for as big as he is, doesn't play to his size and strengths. That is the issue, I have with him.
same here.. and i love how he has heart and sticks up for teammates but most of the time just kills the Rangers momentum because he is horrible at fighting.. how can a man that is 6'7 240+ be so bad at fighting.... imagine if he ever fought Prust, Hartnell or Simmonds (oh wait that happened).

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07-30-2013, 02:24 PM
  #940
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Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
same here.. and i love how he has heart and sticks up for teammates but most of the time just kills the Rangers momentum because he is horrible at fighting.. how can a man that is 6'7 240+ be so bad at fighting.... imagine if he ever fought Prust, Hartnell or Simmonds (oh wait that happened).
Center of Gravity.

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07-30-2013, 02:41 PM
  #941
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I'll never understand why people think that big equals mean and that if you're big you're required to flatten people all the time. It's just not the case.

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07-30-2013, 02:45 PM
  #942
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so since Boyle is the best "checking c" (3rd line C) option the Rangers have, will they experiment of any sorts in camp with either Brassard or Richards on the wing? or will AV have to come up with a different strategy? Rangers have too many centers. Stepan 1C (the most offensive shifts), Richards/Brassard (2c, the 2nd most offensive shifts), but then what? Richards nor Brassard fit into that strategy for 3 line c

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07-30-2013, 02:51 PM
  #943
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The deal leaves approximately $2.8 million of space for the Blueshirts to sign Derek Stepan, their lone remaining restricted free agent. Stepan, the club’s first-line center, does not have arbitration rights.

The projected opening three-week absences for top-six wingers Ryan Callahan and Carl Hagelin, both of whom underwent labrum surgery following the playoffs, has created a cap squeeze for the Rangers, who will probably have to carry 15 forwards coming out of training camp.

The Blueshirts are at around $61.6 million for a shadow roster that features 14 forwards including J.T. Miller, and Danny Kristo, plus a combined $217,000 charge against Arron Asham and Darroll Powe, assuming both veterans begin the season with the AHL Wolf Pack.
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...l0Inrcbxz8TN4J

The Rangers should move Boyle or Pyatt(preferably both)to free up money to sign Stepan to a long-term contract.

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07-30-2013, 02:57 PM
  #944
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...l0Inrcbxz8TN4J

The Rangers should move Boyle or Pyatt(preferably both)to free up money to sign Stepan to a long-term contract.
only if we get a decent return for Boyle. I'm not gonna move him just to create cap space, in that case, Stepan can a bridge deal and get paid more later.

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07-30-2013, 03:00 PM
  #945
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
so since Boyle is the best "checking c" (3rd line C) option the Rangers have, will they experiment of any sorts in camp with either Brassard or Richards on the wing? or will AV have to come up with a different strategy? Rangers have too many centers. Stepan 1C (the most offensive shifts), Richards/Brassard (2c, the 2nd most offensive shifts), but then what? Richards nor Brassard fit into that strategy for 3 line c
When Brassard first came to the Rangers he was playing with Boyle on the wing. Boyle is much more suited to the wing. He should be a winger. Simplify his game. Let him take face-offs to help out. Let him PK. He can center the PK unit.

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07-30-2013, 03:01 PM
  #946
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...l0Inrcbxz8TN4J

The Rangers should move Boyle or Pyatt(preferably both)to free up money to sign Stepan to a long-term contract.
Pyatt should have been gone 3 weeks ago. No need. Asham and Powe were waived, most likely heading down to the AHL or to another team. Take back a AHL player with no NHL future.

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07-30-2013, 03:02 PM
  #947
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
When Brassard first came to the Rangers he was playing with Boyle on the wing. Boyle is much more suited to the wing. He should be a winger. Simplify his game. Let him take face-offs to help out. Let him PK. He can center the PK unit.
I dont disagree that Boyle is more suited for the wing, I think he looked really good there.. The dilema becomes who is the 3rd line C in the strategy AV wants to impliment, neither Richards nor Brassard IMO fill that role.

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07-30-2013, 03:05 PM
  #948
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
I dont disagree that Boyle is more suited for the wing, I think he looked really good there.. The dilema becomes who is the 3rd line C in the strategy AV wants to impliment, neither Richards nor Brassard IMO fill that role.
You role (3) scoring lines and a defense/energy 4th. Implementing his system will take a bit of time. Boyle-Moore-Dorsett is a VERY good 3/4 line.

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07-30-2013, 03:06 PM
  #949
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Pyatt will be "dumped" if he needs to be.

Yeah, I know LOLOLO HES USELESS SOOOO BAD!!! but hes an NHL player, and for a low 1.5 cap hit.. he can fit on many teams bottom 6. Bottom 3 perhaps.

Boyle is a step up in value, and is very useful but we've been over that before. If only he threw nasty hits, beat people up and scored more goals.

Being a bottom 6 player for the Rangers might be the most thankless job in the NHL. No matter what you do, you will be hated by most everyone on this board.

Not to Kershaw it up.. but damn, John Mitchell would've looked nice on our 4th line last year, huh? 90% of people here hated the guy.

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07-30-2013, 03:07 PM
  #950
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Originally Posted by Fire Sather View Post
Pyatt will be "dumped" if he needs to be.

Yeah, I know LOLOLO HES USELESS SOOOO BAD but hes an NHL player, and for a low 1.5 cap hit.. he can fit on many teams bottom 6. Bottom 3 perhaps.

Boyle is a step up in value, and is very useful but we've been over that before. If only he threw nasty hits, beat people up and scored more goals.
Having a 5th center is invaluable.

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