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2013 Philadelphia Phillies (MLB): Charlie Manuel has been fired (Aug. 16)

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Old
07-30-2013, 01:45 PM
  #526
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Don't know how legit, but sounds like we're working on dealing Young ;

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/sc...ael-young-deal

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07-30-2013, 01:46 PM
  #527
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Remember Hanley Ramirez? Thats who he's being compared to, and some think he'll be better than.

Bogaerts gets traded for a guy like Stanton, not a 34 year old SP with 70m left on his contract.
Why do people keep bringing up age? It's not like Lee is a guy who hobbles out to the mound every start. This is a win now move for Boston. Lee is a cy young pitcher with no injury history. All that matters in this trade is what happens in the next two to three years. You give up a potential superstar for a current one. Lee has less time left but you do it if you want to win a world series. Boston is stocked with prospects and they have a great current team. But they have a hole they need to fill and Lee is that piece.

But seriously, this is why I said you aren't getting **** for Utley. If Cliff Lee can't get you a team's top prospect, then what do people hope to get for Chase. Everyone is holding onto their young pieces cause free agency blows anymore and these kids are cheap. No one's giving up something good for 3 months of Chase.

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07-30-2013, 01:47 PM
  #528
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Originally Posted by Sh0otnSc0re View Post
Don't know how legit, but sounds like we're working on dealing Young ;

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/sc...ael-young-deal
According to Stark, nothing has been discussed.

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07-30-2013, 01:47 PM
  #529
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Originally Posted by Sh0otnSc0re View Post
Don't know how legit, but sounds like we're working on dealing Young ;

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/sc...ael-young-deal
Then with that ; we have this ;

‏@jaysonst 1m
Despite all the talk of Michael Young heading back to Texas, I'm hearing no deal is close. And I'm still not sure I'd classify it as likely

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07-30-2013, 01:50 PM
  #530
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Why do people keep bringing up age? It's not like Lee is a guy who hobbles out to the mound every start. This is a win now move for Boston. Lee is a cy young pitcher with no injury history. All that matters in this trade is what happens in the next two to three years. You give up a potential superstar for a current one. Lee has less time left but you do it if you want to win a world series. Boston is stocked with prospects and they have a great current team. But they have a hole they need to fill and Lee is that piece.

But seriously, this is why I said you aren't getting **** for Utley. If Cliff Lee can't get you a team's top prospect, then what do people hope to get for Chase. Everyone is holding onto their young pieces cause free agency blows anymore and these kids are cheap. No one's giving up something good for 3 months of Chase.
Big difference is that Utley plays every day and if you add his bat and OBP to a team, that could really turn over an offense.

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07-30-2013, 02:03 PM
  #531
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I think there are a number of games of chicken going on right now...

Red Sox v. Phillies over Cliff Lee
Phillies v. Michael Young over his NTC

I suspect that calling up Asche was done, in part, to strongarm an aging Michael Young into accepting a deal elsewhere besides Texas. For a guy his age with only so many more playing days.... perhaps he reconsiders if he feels like he's a bench player instead of in a playoff race.

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07-30-2013, 02:06 PM
  #532
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Big difference is that Utley plays every day and if you add his bat and OBP to a team, that could really turn over an offense.
Utley has nowhere near the value Lee has. Lee has had better health, he is signed for longer, and pitching wins championships. Just looking at the information out there, no one wants to give up anything despite the crappy market. You look at things from a business perspective. I can either keep this cheap young guy for the next 5 years or I can trade him for a guy that will give us one shot at a WS.

The only reason Cliff has such value is because of his multiple years left, so even if you lose this year, you can try again next year. There's no way you are getting a good prospect for Utley. You'd probably get more value waiting til the offseason and taking the compensating pick for him if he didn't sign.

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07-30-2013, 02:08 PM
  #533
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Originally Posted by jml87 View Post
Utley has nowhere near the value Lee has. Lee has had better health, he is signed for longer, and pitching wins championships. Just looking at the information out there, no one wants to give up anything despite the crappy market. You look at things from a business perspective. I can either keep this cheap young guy for the next 5 years or I can trade him for a guy that will give us one shot at a WS.

The only reason Cliff has such value is because of his multiple years left, so even if you lose this year, you can try again next year. There's no way you are getting a good prospect for Utley. You'd probably get more value waiting til the offseason and taking the compensating pick for him if he didn't sign.
This is why I want to keep Utley. I don't think it's worth trading him.

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07-30-2013, 02:08 PM
  #534
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Utley has nowhere near the value Lee has. Lee has had better health, he is signed for longer, and pitching wins championships. Just looking at the information out there, no one wants to give up anything despite the crappy market. You look at things from a business perspective. I can either keep this cheap young guy for the next 5 years or I can trade him for a guy that will give us one shot at a WS.

The only reason Cliff has such value is because of his multiple years left, so even if you lose this year, you can try again next year. There's no way you are getting a good prospect for Utley. You'd probably get more value waiting til the offseason and taking the compensating pick for him if he didn't sign.
Utley can certainly net you a really good prospect, it's foolish to think otherwise.

I really don't care what you say or think. Utley who right now is the 2nd best hitting 2nd baseman in the NL would land you a top prospect, maybe not Top 10 in the MLB, but a Top 3 on a lot of teams lists.

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07-30-2013, 02:22 PM
  #535
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Originally Posted by JDinklage Morgoone View Post
Why would Young only go to Texas where he has no spot in the lineup?
Nelson Cruz is about to be suspended and they're going to need a right-handed bat when that happens.

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07-30-2013, 02:23 PM
  #536
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Young is willing to accept a trade to the Red Sox according to someone from the NY Post.

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07-30-2013, 02:27 PM
  #537
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Young is willing to accept a trade to the Red Sox according to someone from the NY Post.
Young and Lee package as was speculated before? That would be nice assuming RAJ doesn't **** the bed which is a distinct possibility.

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07-30-2013, 02:30 PM
  #538
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Young and Lee package as was speculated before? That would be nice assuming RAJ doesn't **** the bed which is a distinct possibility.
"You want Lee and Young eh? Who is your best lefty reliever prospect?"

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07-30-2013, 02:30 PM
  #539
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Young and Lee package as was speculated before? That would be nice assuming RAJ doesn't **** the bed which is a distinct possibility.
Phillies trade Cliff Lee and Michael Young to Red Sox for John Lackey and David Ortiz

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07-30-2013, 02:32 PM
  #540
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Utley can certainly net you a really good prospect, it's foolish to think otherwise.

I really don't care what you say or think. Utley who right now is the 2nd best hitting 2nd baseman in the NL would land you a top prospect, maybe not Top 10 in the MLB, but a Top 3 on a lot of teams lists.
So he's back to being an awesome 2nd baseman? Cause all I hear about is how he's an old declining 35 year old with a degenerative knee condition and how we need to trade him immediately before his body explodes. How can he be all that and still be worth a top prospect that will give you more years and work for much less money?

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07-30-2013, 02:38 PM
  #541
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"You want Lee and Young eh? Who is your best lefty reliever prospect?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDinklage Morgoone View Post
Phillies trade Cliff Lee and Michael Young to Red Sox for John Lackey and David Ortiz

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07-30-2013, 02:38 PM
  #542
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Utley has a knee concern, all of his other injuries were baseball related.

Like a ball hitting him or slamming his thumb into a bag.

The knee issue seems to be fine this year.

But you are right, nobody wants a 2nd baseman that is slugging .500 this year.

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07-30-2013, 02:56 PM
  #543
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Utley has a knee concern, all of his other injuries were baseball related.

Like a ball hitting him or slamming his thumb into a bag.

The knee issue seems to be fine this year.

But you are right, nobody wants a 2nd baseman that is slugging .500 this year.
I'm just trying to say what would be in the minds of a lot of these GMs. I certainly want Utley but I've watched him since he came up ten years ago. But if I was from another team and I saw a guy who has been injured in the past two years, has missed a month this year from an oblique injury, and is only two-three months away from free agency, I would struggle with giving up a young kid for him. The reason being that MLB playoffs are a crap shoot and you only get one shot at it, with continued worries that Utley's knees might act up again before the season is over.

I would give a top prospect for Utley. I think his knee problems are behind him and he's currently one of the best second baseman in baseball. But I think other people will take into account his free agency and his knee problems and they will hold onto their cards.

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07-30-2013, 03:00 PM
  #544
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Trade Lee and D Brown for Tim Wakefield.

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07-30-2013, 03:01 PM
  #545
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I'm just trying to say what would be in the minds of a lot of these GMs. I certainly want Utley but I've watched him since he came up ten years ago. But if I was from another team and I saw a guy who has been injured in the past two years, has missed a month this year from an oblique injury, and is only two-three months away from free agency, I would struggle with giving up a young kid for him. The reason being that MLB playoffs are a crap shoot and you only get one shot at it, with continued worries that Utley's knees might act up again before the season is over.

I would give a top prospect for Utley. I think his knee problems are behind him and he's currently one of the best second baseman in baseball. But I think other people will take into account his free agency and his knee problems and they will hold onto their cards.
Looking at what similar players return (ala Carlos Beltran for Zach Wheeler), Utley is worth a top prospect. The Phillies IMO would be idiotic not to look to move Utley. If the FO loves him so much, sell him on trading him to a team at the deadline and re-signing him in the offseason. Win-win.

I don't understand moving Cliff Lee though. I'm glad the Phils are asking for the moon for him, I want him to stay.

The Phils should be looking to move M. Young, D. Young, Ruiz, Utley and Papelbon.

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07-30-2013, 03:06 PM
  #546
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Why do people keep bringing up age? It's not like Lee is a guy who hobbles out to the mound every start. This is a win now move for Boston. Lee is a cy young pitcher with no injury history. All that matters in this trade is what happens in the next two to three years. You give up a potential superstar for a current one. Lee has less time left but you do it if you want to win a world series. Boston is stocked with prospects and they have a great current team. But they have a hole they need to fill and Lee is that piece.

But seriously, this is why I said you aren't getting **** for Utley. If Cliff Lee can't get you a team's top prospect, then what do people hope to get for Chase. Everyone is holding onto their young pieces cause free agency blows anymore and these kids are cheap. No one's giving up something good for 3 months of Chase.
Yes Lee is worth good prospects, just a not top 3 in all of baseball prospect. Using Hanley as a comparative, he was traded for a 25 year old Beckett. Amaro is dreaming if he thinks he can get Bogaerts.

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07-30-2013, 03:08 PM
  #547
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Looking at what similar players return (ala Carlos Beltran for Zach Wheeler), Utley is worth a top prospect. The Phillies IMO would be idiotic not to look to move Utley. If the FO loves him so much, sell him on trading him to a team at the deadline and re-signing him in the offseason. Win-win.

I don't understand moving Cliff Lee though. I'm glad the Phils are asking for the moon for him, I want him to stay.

The Phils should be looking to move M. Young, D. Young, Ruiz, Utley and Papelbon.
He would get the best return and is 35 yo next month. The team won't be competing the next three or four years. Selling Lee and the Youngs make the most sense IMO.

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07-30-2013, 03:38 PM
  #548
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Amaro said on the MLB Network, unlikely that Young & Lee are moved, still hopes for a winning streak.

Really you ****ing idiot? They are a months out of the playoff spot, they'd have to run the damn table to make the playoffs. Young should be traded for anything.

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07-30-2013, 03:40 PM
  #549
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Amaro said on the MLB Network, unlikely that Young & Lee are moved, still hopes for a winning streak.

Really you ****ing idiot? They are a months out of the playoff spot, they'd have to run the damn table to make the playoffs. Young should be traded for anything.
Normally I'd say this is more posturing by a GM to maybe try and run up value but with RAJ I really doubt it.

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07-30-2013, 03:52 PM
  #550
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Looking at what similar players return (ala Carlos Beltran for Zach Wheeler), Utley is worth a top prospect. The Phillies IMO would be idiotic not to look to move Utley. If the FO loves him so much, sell him on trading him to a team at the deadline and re-signing him in the offseason. Win-win.

I don't understand moving Cliff Lee though. I'm glad the Phils are asking for the moon for him, I want him to stay.

The Phils should be looking to move M. Young, D. Young, Ruiz, Utley and Papelbon.
Everyone always mentions the Wheeler deal. Name some other deals like that. They don't happen.

And why do you want Lee to stay? If we are rebuilding, what good is Cliff Lee. He wants to win and compete. He wants to win a world series. And Lee will get us valuable prospects. There's no point in keeping Lee. If you keep him then you keep Utley and Ruiz too, cause that means you are still trying to win. We don't have the prospects in our system to rebuild within the next year.

And Amaro is just posturing. He'd never get anything otherwise. I don't believe any GMs ever at the trade deadline.

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