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Old
07-30-2013, 02:50 PM
  #51
Gardner McKay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sick Rash View Post
Yessir
Didn't mean to come across the wrong way just look at it from another teams perspective. Will they value Del Zotto as highly as we will? Probably not. Your asking for the teams two best prospects (IIRC unless something drastic happened to Connolly).

I wouldn't make the deal from a Rangers POV because it does nothing to help us now which is what we need. I also would hang up the phone if I was tampa because of the potential of those two and where that organization is vs. ours.

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Old
07-30-2013, 03:00 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by HoseEmDown View Post
Del Zotto is not the second coming of Orr, he's a good young PMD but he's not worth Connolly + 2nd. Connolly would slot in right away on one of the top 2 lines and can see 25 goals. I think the value in the two is similar but we don't need a player like Del Zotto and you need a player like Connolly more.
Del Zotto absolutely is worth that much, if not more. Connolly couldn't make the Bolts this past season, what makes you think he supplants Nash, Hagelin, Callahan, Stepan, Brassard, Richards or Kreider in a fight for top six minutes in NY right now? He doesn't. MDZ is consistently undervalued in a massive way on these boards. We're talking about a kid who was on pace for his third 35+ point NHL season, as a d-man, at 22 last season. For all intents (difficult to say because of the lockout) he is essentially a proven 40+ point offensive d-man. He turned 23 a couple of weeks ago. His defensive game is tremendously underrated. Do you think John "doghouse" Tortorella would give him nearly 23 minutes a night, PP+PK+ES, if his defensive game hasn't improved in leaps and bounds from earlier in his career? He's young, he's physical, he's already in the top ~15 around the league in defensive scoring. His defense is now quite good and continuing to get better and he's not at his offensive peak either. I don't know how anyone could possibly think that gets moved for a question mark prospect who had one good AHL season and a second round pick. In fact, I will say with 1000% confidence that only at Hockey's FUTURE does anyone have the foolishness to think it does.

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Old
07-30-2013, 03:00 PM
  #53
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How about pyatt and asham for a bag of pucks and a jar of gypsy tears

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07-30-2013, 03:37 PM
  #54
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This is pretty hilarious. I like MDZ but the guy is still a liabilitiy on the ice regardless of production, and he and two cap dumps are supposed to be worth two top ten prospects which both project to top line/top pairing players in the future?

There would be zero reason for Tampa to do this. We have a slightly older, slightly more expensive, slightly better version of him in Matt Carle.

Really, if you're in Tampas position and do this trade its all potential on him (MDZ) being a top pairing defender and i'm not sure he'll be consistently top pairing. Excellent puck mover, number four guy? Sure.

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Old
07-30-2013, 03:40 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Still All In View Post
This is pretty hilarious. I like MDZ but the guy is still a liabilitiy on the ice regardless of production, and he and two cap dumps are supposed to be worth two top ten prospects which both project to top line/top pairing players in the future?

There would be zero reason for Tampa to do this. We have a slightly older, slightly more expensive, slightly better version of him in Matt Carle.

Really, if you're in Tampas position and do this trade its all potential on him (MDZ) being a top pairing defender and i'm not sure he'll be consistently top pairing. Excellent puck mover, number four guy? Sure.
Matt Carle to me is a lot better than Del Zotto I havent checked stats but bet per ice minute to scoring Matt is well ahead and he is way more solid and skilled in own end imho.

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Old
07-30-2013, 03:45 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by CM Lundqvist View Post
I haven't seen a post this ridiculous in quite some time...

1. Who said Del Zotto is the next coming of Bobby Orr? Because you can't understand that his value is higher than a hold out who was drafted the year before him doesn't mean that us Ranger fans think he's the next coming of Bobby Orr. Believe it or not, despite many Ranger fans using him as a scapegoat, he's scored at 35+ point pace in 3 of his 4 seasons, including a 10 goal 40 point year in his 3rd year that got him considerable Norris votes with Staal out of the line up for half the season. We don't think he's Bobby Orr, but we know he's worth a hell of a lot more than what Kyle Turris returned.

2. Brett Connolly has scored 5 goals and 16 points over 73 career NHL games and because of a 30-goal, 60-point season in the AHL, he's now a lock for top-6 minutes and 25 goals??? Where do you get this stuff from????
Nobody said he was the next Orr but me. It seems though that Ranger fans have his value through the roof. He's a good young PMD but he's not the only one out there. He's not worth more than Turris IMO cause Turris is a C who hold more value then PMD. We have no need for him anyway with Carle on the team and Barberio a possibility to make it.
Connolly played 68 of those games as a 19 who wasn't ready yet but the AHL wasn't an option. He showed in his 30 goal AHL season that he is the goal scorer he was drafted to be. He's ready for top 6 minutes now but we have two better players ahead of him so he's in the A still. Given the right center who can feed him I can't see why he won't get close to 25.

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Old
07-30-2013, 03:54 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by MPF24 View Post
Del Zotto absolutely is worth that much, if not more. Connolly couldn't make the Bolts this past season, what makes you think he supplants Nash, Hagelin, Callahan, Stepan, Brassard, Richards or Kreider in a fight for top six minutes in NY right now? He doesn't. MDZ is consistently undervalued in a massive way on these boards. We're talking about a kid who was on pace for his third 35+ point NHL season, as a d-man, at 22 last season. For all intents (difficult to say because of the lockout) he is essentially a proven 40+ point offensive d-man. He turned 23 a couple of weeks ago. His defensive game is tremendously underrated. Do you think John "doghouse" Tortorella would give him nearly 23 minutes a night, PP+PK+ES, if his defensive game hasn't improved in leaps and bounds from earlier in his career? He's young, he's physical, he's already in the top ~15 around the league in defensive scoring. His defense is now quite good and continuing to get better and he's not at his offensive peak either. I don't know how anyone could possibly think that gets moved for a question mark prospect who had one good AHL season and a second round pick. In fact, I will say with 1000% confidence that only at Hockey's FUTURE does anyone have the foolishness to think it does.
You don't know Tampa Bay if you think the only reason Connolly was in the A cause he couldn't make the team. We want to develop him properly and playing top minutes there while improving his entire game is better than 3rd line in NHL. I can't think of too many young players who would replace St. Louis or Purcell in the top 6. Callahan is your only RW better then him so I can see him on one of the top two lines. I'm not saying Del Zotto is garbage and worthless like you seem to think Connolly is but he's nothing special. He still can develop into a dominant top pair player but he's not there yet and I don't see the potential to. We also have not need for him as we have our own similar players.

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Old
07-30-2013, 04:12 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPF24 View Post
Del Zotto absolutely is worth that much, if not more. Connolly couldn't make the Bolts this past season, what makes you think he supplants Nash, Hagelin, Callahan, Stepan, Brassard, Richards or Kreider in a fight for top six minutes in NY right now? He doesn't. MDZ is consistently undervalued in a massive way on these boards. We're talking about a kid who was on pace for his third 35+ point NHL season, as a d-man, at 22 last season. For all intents (difficult to say because of the lockout) he is essentially a proven 40+ point offensive d-man. He turned 23 a couple of weeks ago. His defensive game is tremendously underrated. Do you think John "doghouse" Tortorella would give him nearly 23 minutes a night, PP+PK+ES, if his defensive game hasn't improved in leaps and bounds from earlier in his career? He's young, he's physical, he's already in the top ~15 around the league in defensive scoring. His defense is now quite good and continuing to get better and he's not at his offensive peak either. I don't know how anyone could possibly think that gets moved for a question mark prospect who had one good AHL season and a second round pick. In fact, I will say with 1000% confidence that only at Hockey's FUTURE does anyone have the foolishness to think it does.
First both are top ten picks first rounders.

MDZ is not pietrangelo if you offered that for this I say do it no questions asked.

KoekKoek looks to me from the little evaluation I have had to be the same or better player. Yep do not watch Del Zotto night in night out. He is lefty we want rh physical d we have plenty in system of lh scoring d at top and in prospects.

Why said is not a good fit is not what we need to help us really. Have Carle as said and KoekKoek coming. Now the other two players? Basically nothing and we will give up Connolly?

Connolly at most needs one more year of grooming. He will work out fine at that time for us. Yet to you guys if kid is not ready at 20 to play in NHL he is washed up and no good and no longer to be of any value?

You want to take Brewer and Salo off our hands we can discuss Del Zotto yet with Carle and KoekKoek coming we would need to move one of them probably before their contracts expired etc..

With your logic I guess the islanders should give up on nino niederrator and columbus should give up on ryan johnson? They were picked fourth and fifth in 2010.

Nino is not ready for pros this year and is a case that would say neither is ryan he didnt come out and put up 50 points etc..

Your boy Dylan Mcilrath looks no where even close to ready and he was what 10th pick yep. I get defenders sometimes need more time.

Also Kreider is a big guy but just because he got lucky a couple times in playoffs do not think he is anything special yet he has a long way to go to prove that.

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Old
07-30-2013, 04:24 PM
  #59
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I'm not the OP but what about

Lightning receive:
Michael Del Zotto
Samuel Noreau
2016 6th Round Pick
J.T. Miller

Rangers Receive:
Slater Koekkoek
Brett Connolly

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Old
07-30-2013, 04:59 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by hockeyjack13 View Post
I'm not the OP but what about

Lightning receive:
Michael Del Zotto
Samuel Noreau
2016 6th Round Pick
J.T. Miller

Rangers Receive:
Slater Koekkoek
Brett Connolly
Why would we want Miller? Rather keep the better winger in Connolly. Koekkoek will be a better all around player then Del Zotto in 3 years if he stays healthy. We need a Girardi on our blueline and not Del Zotto.

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Old
07-30-2013, 05:23 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyjack13 View Post
I'm not the OP but what about

Lightning receive:
Michael Del Zotto
Samuel Noreau
2016 6th Round Pick
J.T. Miller

Rangers Receive:
Slater Koekkoek
Brett Connolly
NO this is closer noreau will fight but projects to bottom pairing and we need a top 4 and skating is seriously suspect and hockey iq are questioned. If he does develop into even a bottom guy we are looking at 4 years at least with his limitations at this point.

miller hasnt played a full season at ahl so wont knock him yet cause think he develops but would say would need like a second round pick at worst the next year with this deal and still is problem we dont need del zotto.

He is really not a good fit. If you ask anyone in tampa they will say we have carle already and koekkoek whom are a little better physical wise and equal as scorers and all are lefties which we are looking for right stay at home defenders whom are physical with some scoring doesnt need to be a 40 point guy just someone to take the point etc.. on that side with a little skill like 30 points I would be happy with if was true shut down and hit a ton and was ready for top four minutes.

So the problem is with this proposal we are getting a guy whom we already have two of within a year maybe three when add barberio but dont put him in league of the others yet would be adequate guy etc.. a guy who might never make it into the nhl at all whom projects a bottom pairing with bad skating and a 2016 6th rounder so all kinda useless so far to tampa and miller whom I think is gonna be a very good player in a few years for many years for two very good players?


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Old
07-30-2013, 05:39 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoseEmDown View Post
Why would we want Miller? Rather keep the better winger in Connolly. Koekkoek will be a better all around player then Del Zotto in 3 years if he stays healthy. We need a Girardi on our blueline and not Del Zotto.
Dont knock miller.

One he is not a winger is a true center. Two he plays a very good two way game already which connolly does not yet. At least not as well as miller. Three is kinda physical and plays the boards well. Four he is very good at faceoffs guy has a complete game.

I would want a full year at ahl nhl to evaluate him. The guy is no slouch. He came up big in some all star events. He has a very solid all around game. I am impressed and can see him being a long time very good second line center and maybe even becoming a first line on certain teams. He is hard worker.

I put him above kreider by a large margin. Kreider might develop into a real good power forward and is super fast but his defense and hockey IQ will remain in question for a long time. Difference is miller has it all the hockey IQ skating etc.. even though is smaller the guy than kreider yet not small for nhl centers is a fighter will go and fight boards wherever defense he is there.

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Old
07-30-2013, 07:05 PM
  #63
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del zotto had 41 points, a +20 just a year ago on a team that was pretty much offensively challenged, can play in the top 4 and is signed for 2.5m.. criminally underrated not only by other teams' fans but our own fan base.

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Old
07-30-2013, 07:19 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyjack13 View Post
I'm not the OP but what about

Lightning receive:
Michael Del Zotto
Samuel Noreau
2016 6th Round Pick
J.T. Miller

Rangers Receive:
Slater Koekkoek
Brett Connolly
Rangers would want something more in return. C'mon they're trading probably the best dman on their team for Connolly who barely has had a sniff in the league and Koekkoek hasnt played a game yet.

I'm no Rangers fan but even a Rangers fan would be asking for more.

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Old
07-30-2013, 07:28 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Sick Rash View Post
Rangers get:

LW Brett Connolly
D Slater Koekkoek


Lightning get:

D Michael Del Zotto
G Martin Biron
LW Taylor Pyatt
Deal!

no backsies.

Heck I'd do it even if you switch Connolly with Tyler Johnson.

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Old
07-30-2013, 07:37 PM
  #66
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Rangers would want something more in return. C'mon they're trading probably the best dman on their team for Connolly who barely has had a sniff in the league and Koekkoek hasnt played a game yet.

I'm no Rangers fan but even a Rangers fan would be asking for more.
your last point has to be right lol. I like dz, but hes not as good as Mcd, Girardi, Staal for sure, and u can even make a case for Stralman or Moore

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07-30-2013, 07:38 PM
  #67
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the Rangers are not including Miller in a Del zotto deal for brett ****ing connolly, holy hell.


Last edited by spiny norman: 07-31-2013 at 01:06 AM. Reason: use the filter
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07-30-2013, 08:33 PM
  #68
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First both are top ten picks first rounders.

MDZ is not pietrangelo if you offered that for this I say do it no questions asked.

KoekKoek looks to me from the little evaluation I have had to be the same or better player. Yep do not watch Del Zotto night in night out. He is lefty we want rh physical d we have plenty in system of lh scoring d at top and in prospects.

Why said is not a good fit is not what we need to help us really. Have Carle as said and KoekKoek coming. Now the other two players? Basically nothing and we will give up Connolly?

Connolly at most needs one more year of grooming. He will work out fine at that time for us. Yet to you guys if kid is not ready at 20 to play in NHL he is washed up and no good and no longer to be of any value?

You want to take Brewer and Salo off our hands we can discuss Del Zotto yet with Carle and KoekKoek coming we would need to move one of them probably before their contracts expired etc..

With your logic I guess the islanders should give up on nino niederrator and columbus should give up on ryan johnson? They were picked fourth and fifth in 2010.

Nino is not ready for pros this year and is a case that would say neither is ryan he didnt come out and put up 50 points etc..

Your boy Dylan Mcilrath looks no where even close to ready and he was what 10th pick yep. I get defenders sometimes need more time.

Also Kreider is a big guy but just because he got lucky a couple times in playoffs do not think he is anything special yet he has a long way to go to prove that.
Uhhh...

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Old
07-30-2013, 08:58 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
del zotto had 41 points, a +20 just a year ago on a team that was pretty much offensively challenged, can play in the top 4 and is signed for 2.5m.. criminally underrated not only by other teams' fans but our own fan base.
if he hits 40 this year next is his next contract so injury free 40 he gets paid at least 5 for 5 million. That is going rate at 24 for those types of stats and five productive years.

So you bring up he has one good year on a contract?

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07-30-2013, 09:08 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
the Rangers are not including Miller in a Del zotto deal for brett ****ing connolly, holy hell.

someone with a brain.

Connolly has upside and might one day be a nice scorer but think you got a good one there in miller myself as I pointed out to a fan whom obviously is clueless of the kid. He is one of few guys I see with no weaknesses in his game and I put him a ton higher on list of a great player than kreider. Kreider can become a true power forward maybe besides his size which is a good center size miller already is complete in those regards crashing the net hitting the boards etc.. I know is projected second line center if he has the will which I think I see he will be a first liner on a lot of clubs.


Last edited by spiny norman: 07-31-2013 at 01:07 AM. Reason: qmep
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07-30-2013, 09:19 PM
  #71
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if he hits 40 this year next is his next contract so injury free 40 he gets paid at least 5 for 5 million. That is going rate at 24 for those types of stats and five productive years.

So you bring up he has one good year on a contract?
he will be a RFA again though.

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07-30-2013, 09:22 PM
  #72
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someone with a brain.

Connolly has upside and might one day be a nice scorer but think you got a good one there in miller myself as I pointed out to a fan whom obviously is clueless of the kid. He is one of few guys I see with no weaknesses in his game and I put him a ton higher on list of a great player than kreider. Kreider can become a true power forward maybe besides his size which is a good center size miller already is complete in those regards crashing the net hitting the boards etc.. I know is projected second line center if he has the will which I think I see he will be a first liner on a lot of clubs.
Its giving up a young top 4 dman and a young top 6 guy both of who are on very good contracts. I definitely want a surefire top 6 guy coming back for a package like that. before his OS, that was a rumored package for ROR

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07-30-2013, 09:25 PM
  #73
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I would work out something koekkoek connolly for miller del zotto etc.. but am not sure is good fit to have two identical guys both making 5 million for 5 years each guess put one on first one on second but is not ideal? We got barberio too would lose koekkoek so that would help yet still have our problems with brewer needing to be moved and needing one or two rh d physical shut down guys with some scoring skill doesnt need to be the best ever but decent. Gudas should develop and hedman might actually work if got two good physical guys to play bottom pairings hedman carle del zotto gudas.
barberio to be a seventh aulie trade brewer next year for a seventh round pick and pick up a decent big power big shut down to play with aulie that wouldnt be terrible.

So koekkoek connolly for jt miller del zotto calle andersson

I would probably do this trade just carle and del zotto are same player and are not physcial enough either of them Is just what it is. Think could have a pretty good thing would probably have to ship barberio too though unless he is better at physical than these two which I dont know yet. so we still need 2-3 guys for bottom to be rough guys. KoekKoek is going to be more physical than del zotto or carle in my opinion.

Good part of deal is obviously miller cause he plays tough seems to have a lot of heart and is very responsible on d end for a center at his age.

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07-30-2013, 09:33 PM
  #74
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someone with a brain.

Connolly has upside and might one day be a nice scorer but think you got a good one there in miller myself as I pointed out to a fan whom obviously is clueless of the kid. He is one of few guys I see with no weaknesses in his game and I put him a ton higher on list of a great player than kreider. Kreider can become a true power forward maybe besides his size which is a good center size miller already is complete in those regards crashing the net hitting the boards etc.. I know is projected second line center if he has the will which I think I see he will be a first liner on a lot of clubs.
So I'm clueless on him cause I said Connolly is the better player? Miller may be a more complete player but that doesn't make him better or project to be better. We don't need Miller or Del Zotto we have similar players that can be better then them. I just don't see a deal happening between the two teams.

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07-30-2013, 09:33 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Sick Rash View Post
Del Zotto could become your top-pairing guy with Salo. Connolly seems to be on the outs with you guys and wouldn't you do Koekkoek straight up for Del Zotto?
Sure, I'd take this and run, not sure how Ranger fans would feel though

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoseEmDown View Post
Del Zotto is not the second coming of Orr, he's a good young PMD but he's not worth Connolly + 2nd. Connolly would slot in right away on one of the top 2 lines and can see 25 goals. I think the value in the two is similar but we don't need a player like Del Zotto and you need a player like Connolly more.
I'd do this too, you underrate Del Zotto, what PMD does Tampa have? It's one of our biggest weakness, and I'd have a hard time believing Connolly is a 25 goal scorer on any team right now given what he's shown in the NHL so far. Purcell, Drouin, Killorn, St.louis are likely our top-4 wingers, Connolly has no room in Tampa atm either.

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