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Crawford agrees to multi-year extension

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Old
07-29-2013, 02:38 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by axecrew View Post
Yes he did by only .004 % and yet he played 9 more games as well. If that's the case that they played better in front of Niemi than crawford....that doesn't say a whole lot for the players on that team or the staff. Not too mention crawford's relationship with those same players. Here's a guy who has been anointed the future and his teammates lay down and don't play as well in front of him as they do a guy in his 1st year in N. America. Doesn't say much for the players leadership skills then.
You are arguing in circles and I really don't even understand what point you are trying to make. Crawford had a better SV% head to head with Niemi. That is a fact and GAA is a team stat. Crawford also by a majority of accounts was better during preseason but Niemi had to pass through waivers and Crawford didn't. Why would the Hawks throw away an asset for nothing? They were only fighting for a backup job anyways. Would you rather have your "future goalie" playing 65 games in Rockford or 15-20 games as a backup in the NHL? That was the likely thought process plus one was waiver exempt and one wasn't. They thought Huet was the clear #1 goalie if the present so Niemi eventually winning the starting job and Huet completely sucking is what happened after the fact. They likely didn't see either Niemi or Crawford being the starter in the playoffs that year.

Just because Khabibulin is the backup this year doesn't mean they think he is a better future goalie than Raanta or think he is even better right now. Crawford is the starter and they might want Raanta getting more playing time and experience in Rockford rather than be a backup for 20 games. If Crawford completely sucks and loses the starting job while Bulin is playing great...that wouldn't have been planned or expected by the Hawks.


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07-29-2013, 04:06 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Gritzky98 View Post
Niemi was a vezina caliber goalie this season behind a worse team, Crawford was not.
And Crawford was a Vezina caliber goaltender this season as well, and would no doubt have been nominated if he had played 6-8 more games. Not to mention, Crawford was even better in the playoffs and arguably should have won the Conn Smythe (though, I'm glad Kane came away from this season with some individual hardware).

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07-29-2013, 04:47 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by AmishRenegade View Post
In other words their stats were nearly identical playing in Rockford. You seem to forget that Niemi was up for the Vezina this year as well. (Crawford based on his stats last year should have been as well)
Exactly...their stats were very close and yet chicago chose to keep a guy who had 1 year of experience in N America over a guy who had been in their system for some time.

Why is that.....and waivers had nothing to do with it.

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07-29-2013, 04:57 PM
  #54
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You are arguing in circles and I really don't even understand what point you are trying to make. Crawford had a better SV% head to head with Niemi. That is a fact and GAA is a team stat. Crawford also by a majority of accounts was better during preseason but Niemi had to pass through waivers and Crawford didn't. Why would the Hawks throw away an asset for nothing? They were only fighting for a backup job anyways. Would you rather have your "future goalie" playing 65 games in Rockford or 15-20 games as a backup in the NHL? That was the likely thought process plus one was waiver exempt and one wasn't. They thought Huet was the clear #1 goalie if the present so Niemi eventually winning the starting job and Huet completely sucking is what happened after the fact. They likely didn't see either Niemi or Crawford being the starter in the playoffs that year.

Just because Khabibulin is the backup this year doesn't mean they think he is a better future goalie than Raanta or think he is even better right now. Crawford is the starter and they might want Raanta getting more playing time and experience in Rockford rather than be a backup for 20 games. If Crawford completely sucks and loses the starting job while Bulin is playing great...that wouldn't have been planned or expected by the Hawks.
Uh no not really.....GAA may be a "team" stat but it's also a much more reliable one than save percentage......what you need to use with save percentage is how many of the shots saved were QUALITY scoring chances.
I can face 10 shots all from the point or beyond and stop 9 of them, and an NHL goalie can face 10 shots from between the circles at the hash marks and stop 7 of them.....doesn't that mean I'm a better goalie? Afterall my save percentage is 90% while his is only 70%...in fact using those numbers one could say he even sucks compared to me.
Save percentage is a very arbitrary stat......

The point im trying make with all my post is simple....Seen crawford play all thru the minors up til now and he's not as good as he's being made out to be, he caught lightning in a bottle and taking advantage of it, good on him. But he's not worth the numbers being thrown around on this board, nor will he get anywhere near that from chicago as bowman is very reluctant to pay his goalies big money, since their system relies so heavily on the D and Forwards blocking shots and forcing shooters wide or into low percentage areas.

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07-29-2013, 05:09 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
I'd be shocked if he got more than Howard from the Hawks. He might deserve it, but the Hawks strategy typically isn't built around making the goalie part of the "core", and that type of contract would change that approach.
So are you saying, maybe they'll let him walk?

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07-29-2013, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by axecrew View Post
Exactly...their stats were very close and yet chicago chose to keep a guy who had 1 year of experience in N America over a guy who had been in their system for some time.

Why is that.....and waivers had nothing to do with it.
Except waivers had everything to do with it.

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07-29-2013, 07:14 PM
  #57
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Except waivers had everything to do with it.
Agree. That's how we all remember it going down at the time.

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07-29-2013, 11:49 PM
  #58
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Exactly. I specifically remember almost 90% of posters saying they thought Crawford outplayed Niemi and many were surprised Niemi "won" the job but the only real reason people could think of at the time was that Crawford was waiver exempt and Niemi wasn't. Clearly the Hawks liked both but I'd bet if Niemi was waiver exempt and not Crawford...Crawford would've been on the team and history changed forever. Luckily for us, Niemi shined during the regular season compared to Huet. Although maybe we win the Cup with Crawford in '10 and then win 3 more Cups over the next 3 years with Niemi.

Plus the backup was only expected to play around 15 games IMO while the goalie in Rockford would get 55-60. Huet wasn't expected to completely suck...the Hawks let Bulin walk because of Huet(with Crawford/Niemi as well). Instead of throwing away an asset(possibly), Niemi got the backup role and Crawford the #1 role in Rockford. It doesn't really speak for who they liked more IMO. If Niemi sucked, we could waive him and bring up Crawford. If Crawford sucked, Niemi could've been on another team had we went with Craw. Made more sense to see how Niemi did first before exposing him to waivers. Who knows if they truly thought he was better or not.

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07-30-2013, 05:45 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by axecrew View Post
Exactly...their stats were very close and yet chicago chose to keep a guy who had 1 year of experience in N America over a guy who had been in their system for some time.

Why is that.....and waivers had nothing to do with it.
Waivers were the main and maybe only reason why Niemi got the backup job


good job covering the Hawks my fellow Hockey(or even Hawks) Fan


I'm now the 4th poster that says this within 4 posts

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07-30-2013, 06:59 AM
  #60
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4 year at 4.5 million per season is what I would give him.

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07-30-2013, 12:22 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Bubba88 View Post
Waivers were the main and maybe only reason why Niemi got the backup job


good job covering the Hawks my fellow Hockey(or even Hawks) Fan


I'm now the 4th poster that says this within 4 posts
Yes....yes you are of which do any of them even live in chicago like i do????????

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07-30-2013, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by axecrew View Post
Yes....yes you are of which do any of them even live in chicago like i do????????
What does that have to do with anything? You are in Chicago so you should know that is was because of waivers more than anybody..

Except where you live means **** all, we all get our information the same way.

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07-30-2013, 02:54 PM
  #63
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welcome to the internet... you know when you can read and see about everything that happens in world cities like Chicago

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07-30-2013, 03:50 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
So are you saying, maybe they'll let him walk?
I honestly think they might.

I'm a huge Hawks fan, and I'm the first to say that you need good goaltending to win the Cup. If push comes to shove though, I would bet that the Hawks think they have a better chance of being competitive long term by icing a team that can roll 4 lines and 3 d-pairs with an average goalie (which Crawford is IMO), than spending $5-6M on a goalie and have to skimp on the 3rd d-pair.

Hopefully the Hawks have an idea of what it's going to take to resign the core guys (JT/PK) when their contracts expire. They'll take a look at that number, factor in raises for the other RFA's, compare it to estimated growth in the cap and see how much room that they have for Crawford.

My guestimate is that Crawford is the guy who they see if they have room for. I doubt he's a guy that they make room for by moving core players to free $'s for up long term.

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07-31-2013, 12:26 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
I honestly think they might.

I'm a huge Hawks fan, and I'm the first to say that you need good goaltending to win the Cup. If push comes to shove though, I would bet that the Hawks think they have a better chance of being competitive long term by icing a team that can roll 4 lines and 3 d-pairs with an average goalie (which Crawford is IMO), than spending $5-6M on a goalie and have to skimp on the 3rd d-pair.

Hopefully the Hawks have an idea of what it's going to take to resign the core guys (JT/PK) when their contracts expire. They'll take a look at that number, factor in raises for the other RFA's, compare it to estimated growth in the cap and see how much room that they have for Crawford.

My guestimate is that Crawford is the guy who they see if they have room for. I doubt he's a guy that they make room for by moving core players to free $'s for up long term.
WOW....someone who FINALLY gets it. As for the lovely comments about where I live etc....actually no we don't get our info the same way, I actually have seen the guy play in person, I have actually watched the guy practice in person....I actually have seen his body language etc while you are watching whatever the heck the tv camera wants you to see. Cory Crawford is a mediocre goalie who caught lightning in a bottle and rode it hard...he benefitted greatly from a team who thinks block shots first and nothing gets through thus allowing an average goalie to look great. Ask yourself this...would crawford have won a cup this year behind another team and would any other goalie have won the cup with chicago this year. the answers are no and yes.

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07-31-2013, 02:57 AM
  #66
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Reliable source? No confirmation yet

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07-31-2013, 05:27 AM
  #67
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this wasn't a credible source to begin with and this won't happen until december or so... if it happens before the season ends

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07-31-2013, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by axecrew View Post
WOW....someone who FINALLY gets it. As for the lovely comments about where I live etc....actually no we don't get our info the same way, I actually have seen the guy play in person, I have actually watched the guy practice in person....I actually have seen his body language etc while you are watching whatever the heck the tv camera wants you to see. Cory Crawford is a mediocre goalie who caught lightning in a bottle and rode it hard...he benefitted greatly from a team who thinks block shots first and nothing gets through thus allowing an average goalie to look great. Ask yourself this...would crawford have won a cup this year behind another team and would any other goalie have won the cup with chicago this year. the answers are no and yes.
Good for you, lots of us have seen him play live in person too. You know Chicago does travel to different cities to play, right? And some of us travel to Chicago to watch games...?

Crawford is better than a mediocre goalie, but he isn't a top of the line goalie either, and neither is Niemi.

Answer this, would Niemi have won a Cup on any other team in 2010? No.

As for any other goalie winning the cup with Chicago this year, the answer is clearly no. Not every goalie in the league is as good as Crawford, there are some goalies who are considerably worse.

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07-31-2013, 10:18 AM
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Uh no not really.....GAA may be a "team" stat but it's also a much more reliable one than save percentage......
No, no it's not.

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07-31-2013, 11:21 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Good for you, lots of us have seen him play live in person too. You know Chicago does travel to different cities to play, right? And some of us travel to Chicago to watch games...?

Crawford is better than a mediocre goalie, but he isn't a top of the line goalie either, and neither is Niemi.

Answer this, would Niemi have won a Cup on any other team in 2010? No.

As for any other goalie winning the cup with Chicago this year, the answer is clearly no. Not every goalie in the league is as good as Crawford, there are some goalies who are considerably worse.
Thank you for finally agreeing with my point from WAY back in the beginning.....BOTH goalies benefitted from the system that chicago plays and not so much their skill level. Ive said all along that the shot blocking safety first defence chicago played was the reason they won both cups, why do you think they felt comfortable lettiing niemi go after 2010...because it was the system and not the goalie that won.

So you don't think Loungo, Rask,Kipper,Lehtonen,Lundqvist,and the likes wouldn't have won with that chicago D in front of them?!?!?!?!? Wow

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07-31-2013, 11:22 AM
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No, no it's not.
Yeah, Yeah it is.....read my previous post where I talked about quality scoring chances being included in the evaluation then come back and comment.

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07-31-2013, 12:05 PM
  #72
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Thank you for finally agreeing with my point from WAY back in the beginning.....BOTH goalies benefitted from the system that chicago plays and not so much their skill level. Ive said all along that the shot blocking safety first defence chicago played was the reason they won both cups, why do you think they felt comfortable lettiing niemi go after 2010...because it was the system and not the goalie that won.

So you don't think Loungo, Rask,Kipper,Lehtonen,Lundqvist,and the likes wouldn't have won with that chicago D in front of them?!?!?!?!? Wow
I haven't argued any of those points with you yet.

The only thing I argued with you is how Niemi made the team in 2009-10. And then you brought up that since I live in Ontario, and you live in Chicago, that your information is better than mine as to why they sent Crawford down and not Niemi.

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07-31-2013, 01:18 PM
  #73
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Yeah, Yeah it is.....read my previous post where I talked about quality scoring chances being included in the evaluation then come back and comment.
The points you make about SV% being unreliable are entirely fair, and I have made them a lot myself. That, however, doesn't come close to making GAA a better indicator of goaltending quality. It is a rather pure team stat, and that's hardly debatable. SV% has severe issues as an indicator and really should not be relied upon - but GAA simply isn't one, at all. Most of all, the points you make against SV% can and do still show up in GAA. Those more difficult shots are still faced by the goaltender on the inferior team, and do translate to a worse GAA, just as much as they lower the SV%.

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08-01-2013, 11:17 AM
  #74
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The points you make about SV% being unreliable are entirely fair, and I have made them a lot myself. That, however, doesn't come close to making GAA a better indicator of goaltending quality. It is a rather pure team stat, and that's hardly debatable. SV% has severe issues as an indicator and really should not be relied upon - but GAA simply isn't one, at all. Most of all, the points you make against SV% can and do still show up in GAA. Those more difficult shots are still faced by the goaltender on the inferior team, and do translate to a worse GAA, just as much as they lower the SV%.
I still think GAA is more reliable then SV% and while the components of SV% do get reflected in the GAA it still becomes about where the shots came from in my opinion. So that's why I think GAA is a better stat to judge a goaltender on, whether it's a team stat or not...I don't think I've ever seen a "team" get the Vezina or Jennings trophies and what are the main components of how those awards are decided??? Wins, and GAA are the main factors. So even the NHL uses GAA as a basis for it's post-season awards.

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08-01-2013, 11:45 AM
  #75
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I still think GAA is more reliable then SV% and while the components of SV% do get reflected in the GAA it still becomes about where the shots came from in my opinion. So that's why I think GAA is a better stat to judge a goaltender on, whether it's a team stat or not...
Of course it matters where the shots come from - I agree with you on that. But it's not like GAA doesn't have that exact same flaw. The same easier/harder shots are still going directly into GAA, just as well as they do into SV%, so your argument works against SV%, but it does not work in favor of GAA, whatsoever. To be honest, I'm a bit puzzled that you are capable of seeing those major flaws in SV% as you point them out (which is more than I'm used to), but don't see the even more evident flaws in what no goaltender even considers a goaltending stat in any way.

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I don't think I've ever seen a "team" get the Vezina or Jennings trophies and what are the main components of how those awards are decided??? Wins, and GAA are the main factors. So even the NHL uses GAA as a basis for it's post-season awards.
You don't know how the people making these calls value those components. Some of them probably do implement numbers like wins or GAA, but I would almost guarantee you that those using those two stats use SV% at the very least to the same extent or more. If they're relying heavily on the two former, they are beyond clueless about the position of goaltending and the meaning of these stats. It's not exactly a new phenomenon that goaltending is the part of the game that remains a closed book to most people. A ton of career long players and head coaches are fully aware that they have no idea about it. And pardon me if I'm not exactly considering the NHL's history of handing out awards to be a reflection of sensibility or reason.

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