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[TOR] Leafs re-sign Mark Fraser (1 year, $1.275M)

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Old
07-30-2013, 05:04 PM
  #126
mouser
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Originally Posted by Caesium View Post
Compared to the rest of the D in the league:
1st in major penalties with 9, next closest player has 6.
2nd in the league for hits.
15th in the league for blocked shots.
T-3rd in the league for +/-.

For a defensive d-man that is expected to be tough to play against, he delivered on all fronts.
I'm not so sure arbitration cases reward taking major penalties like fantasy hockey does, but I'll grant you the others.

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07-30-2013, 05:05 PM
  #127
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Trade/buyout Liles.....done.
Kadri has got to be asking for 4mil + by himself. Franson is gone. Making a weak defense that much worse.

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07-30-2013, 05:19 PM
  #128
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Kadri has got to be asking for 4mil + by himself. Franson is gone. Making a weak defense that much worse.
Franson's gone eh? Tell me more Nonis.

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07-30-2013, 06:03 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Yeti34 View Post
Kadri has got to be asking for 4mil + by himself. Franson is gone. Making a weak defense that much worse.
Kadri asking for 4 million+? maybe if they're signing him for 5 years... get real.

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Old
07-30-2013, 06:21 PM
  #130
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500k overpaid

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07-30-2013, 07:00 PM
  #131
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I keep reading how Nonis is overpaying with every signing this summer yet the Leafs still have more cap room than 19 other NHL teams presently despite having to pay the Tucker and Armstrong contracts from Burke's tenure which will expire next season.

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07-30-2013, 07:04 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Yeti34 View Post
Kadri has got to be asking for 4mil + by himself. Franson is gone. Making a weak defense that much worse.
Duchene didn't even get 4 on his bridge. No way Kadri gets it for one season of production.

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07-30-2013, 07:05 PM
  #133
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First, this is not a bash, just working numbers.

14m of that goes to Kessel and Phaneuf, leaves 19m for 11 players. Some of those include Gardiner, kulemin and Bolland who won't be getting 1m deals, they will get a raise. If they buyout liles, add 1.25m penalty.

In a hypothetical situation, lets say the leafs ice 4 rookies with 800k in salary, down to 15.2m. Avg salary was around 2.5m for NHL players which means even with 4 rookies at 800k you then have 7 below average nhlers mixed with those 4 rookies. Or you could resign Gardiner, Bolland, and kulemin and ice 4 rookies with those 3 and 4 fringe nhlers.

Moral of the story is that something has to give, maybe that's saying goodbye to Kessel or Phaneuf but don't kid yourself, this is not a 1yr cap issue.
This is not a critic but an attempt to have a meaningful discussion.

You forgot to include the possible $4M, $5M or even $6M raise in the cap.

I do agree that they have to do a better job of managing the cap, but all is not lost.

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07-30-2013, 07:13 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by vinnybaby View Post
The problem is if Nonis planned on buying out both Liles and Komisarek it would have made more sense to use the compliance on Liles and a normal buyout on Komisarek.

Komisarek would have lingered on the cap for 2 years after a normal buyout, while Liles will be on the cap for the next 6 years if bought out.

2 years of dead cap space is better than 6. So, Nonis would be admitting he made a mistake wasting the compliance on Komisarek.

I doubt he does that. But, if he does please join me in a bash Nonis thread.
When he did that, he had not received his 5-year extension yet.

So he probably looked at short-term results and a regular buy-out of Komi would have cost a few hundred K of cap space more than a regular buy-out of Liles.

He might also have thought that trading Liles would be easier than trading Komi.

Finally, with the expected inflation of the cap, the negative impact of a Liles buy-out 3-4-5-6 years from now might have looked to him a lesser problem than the negative impact of a Komi regular buy-out this year and next year.

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Old
07-30-2013, 07:16 PM
  #135
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I keep reading how Nonis is overpaying with every signing this summer yet the Leafs still have more cap room than 19 other NHL teams presently despite having to pay the Tucker and Armstrong contracts from Burke's tenure which will expire next season.
Only because they bought out Grabovski, who was very overpaid. By Dave Nonis who did the contract negotiating for Burke.

Nonis has never been good at negotiating contracts it's his only real flaw IMO.

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07-30-2013, 07:24 PM
  #136
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I keep reading how Nonis is overpaying with every signing this summer yet the Leafs still have more cap room than 19 other NHL teams presently despite having to pay the Tucker and Armstrong contracts from Burke's tenure which will expire next season.
But 11 of these 19 teams have full rosters or are over the roster limit, while the Leafs need 2 more players for a full roster.

Let's look at this number again in October.

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07-30-2013, 07:35 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by beauchamp View Post
But 11 of these 19 teams have full rosters or are over the roster limit, while the Leafs need 2 more players for a full roster.

Let's look at this number again in October.
Cap doesn't kick in until after training camp. Leafs are 20th currently in payroll. 3M was used in buyouts and taking on salary. If Nonis is doing a bad job, than there are other GM's that are doing far worse if he is the standard for bad. He doesn't have to sign Franson, and it's up to Kadri to not do a Subban did last year. Those things are out of a GM's control if players are unreasonable.

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07-30-2013, 07:48 PM
  #138
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Franson won't be signed!

4.5 will be enough for just Kadri if lucky.

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Old
07-30-2013, 07:52 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by beauchamp View Post
When he did that, he had not received his 5-year extension yet.

So he probably looked at short-term results and a regular buy-out of Komi would have cost a few hundred K of cap space more than a regular buy-out of Liles.

He might also have thought that trading Liles would be easier than trading Komi.

Finally, with the expected inflation of the cap, the negative impact of a Liles buy-out 3-4-5-6 years from now might have looked to him a lesser problem than the negative impact of a Komi regular buy-out this year and next year.
The cap will inflate, but so will player salaries. The 1 or 2 mil per year of dead cap space will still have a similar effect that it does now for a cap team like Toronto. It could be the difference between keeping or acquiring a good player and not. Especially, when over the course of 6 years, you'll likely have more short-term buyouts eating into cap space. It adds up, when it didn't have to.

Darcy Tucker being bought out 6 years ago is partially to blame for our current cap squeeze.

It obviously would be easier to move Liles. That is likely why he decided to travel in this direction.

Regardless of what he thought a month ago. If Liles is bought out in the coming days. It becomes obvious he took a gamble on trading Liles and lost. In doing so he will have damaged the Leafs cap situation long term.

He will have made a mistake.

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07-30-2013, 08:13 PM
  #140
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That's a bit much for Mark, 1 million should have sufficed. Oh well, he plays the role the Leafs need played.


Last edited by Nuckles: 07-30-2013 at 08:22 PM. Reason: removed flaming
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07-30-2013, 08:19 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by vinnybaby View Post
The cap will inflate, but so will player salaries. The 1 or 2 mil per year of dead cap space will still have a similar effect that it does now for a cap team like Toronto. It could be the difference between keeping or acquiring a good player and not. Especially, when over the course of 6 years, you'll likely have more short-term buyouts eating into cap space. It adds up, when it didn't have to.

Darcy Tucker being bought out 6 years ago is partially to blame for our current cap squeeze.

It obviously would be easier to move Liles. That is likely why he decided to travel in this direction.

Regardless of what he thought a month ago. If Liles is bought out in the coming days. It becomes obvious he took a gamble on trading Liles and lost. In doing so he will have damaged the Leafs cap situation long term.

He will have made a mistake.
Players salaries will most probably inflate at a rate similar to the cap's but the possible Liles dead cap space won't and will in fact diminish as a percentage of the cap.

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07-30-2013, 08:24 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by beauchamp View Post
Players salaries will most probably inflate at a rate similar to the cap's but the possible Liles dead cap space won't and will in fact diminish as a percentage of the cap.
Tucker's buyout cap hit likely diminished percentage wise aswell. Yet, there it is still making life difficult for the Leafs to re-sign their RFA's.

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07-30-2013, 08:36 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by vinnybaby View Post
Tucker's buyout cap hit likely diminished percentage wise aswell. Yet, there it is still making life difficult for the Leafs to re-sign their RFA's.
It's not Tucker, it's Armstrong (or Armstrong + Scrivens + Frattin)...

But to be more serious, it's more a bad job by their capologist (Loiselle?) or Nonis not heeding his advice.

The day that $1M out of $64.3 causes a problem is the day the responsibility lies on my shoulder or or two or three...

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07-30-2013, 08:45 PM
  #144
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1.2 for Fraser is a good deal for Toronto, they will be able to sign Kadri and Franson no problem.

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07-30-2013, 08:48 PM
  #145
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Overpayment.

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07-30-2013, 08:54 PM
  #146
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1.2 for Fraser is a good deal for Toronto, they will be able to sign Kadri and Franson no problem.
It's a smart deal, only 1 year, gives Nonis flexibility going into next year's contracts.

The cap isn't enforced until the season starts, Nonis did mention there was plenty of time to work something out for Franson or Kadri.

I think he is waiting to see how Rielly, Ranger, or others maybe even Percy or Granberg 3 highly regarded prospects do in training camp before deciding on Franson. Having Liles is not such a bad thing at this stage.

If Kadri takes a realistic contract, there may be no need to re-sign Franson. He could be moved for assets if one of the 3 kids jumps up at training camp.

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07-30-2013, 09:10 PM
  #147
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This is not a critic but an attempt to have a meaningful discussion.

You forgot to include the possible $4M, $5M or even $6M raise in the cap.

I do agree that they have to do a better job of managing the cap, but all is not lost.
I'm of the opinion that the cap won't raise that much. The players share dropped by 7%, that's a ton of revenue to make up for a 5m cap bump.

Either way, the leafs have some young players that will need to get paid in the not too distant future. They are also not a contending team at this point nor is there a great prospect cupboard to pull from. Bouncing off the cap is a dangerous game, just like the franson / kadri situation now.

5m for nonis gets you a David clarkson, leafs are much more than a DC away from the promise land

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07-30-2013, 09:21 PM
  #148
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I'm of the opinion that the cap won't raise that much. The players share dropped by 7%, that's a ton of revenue to make up for a 5m cap bump.

Either way, the leafs have some young players that will need to get paid in the not too distant future. They are also not a contending team at this point nor is there a great prospect cupboard to pull from. Bouncing off the cap is a dangerous game, just like the franson / kadri situation now.

5m for nonis gets you a David clarkson, leafs are much more than a DC away from the promise land
Rarely have truer words been written...

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07-30-2013, 09:21 PM
  #149
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Great signing at a reasonable price!. He's big, he's physical and he is great position wise. At just over a million I'll take it.

Are we up against the cap with Kadri and Franson still unsigned yes but with a simple trade or not so simple trade of JML we could have enough for both with a few mil to breathe. I still think Nonis should be listening to offers for Dion as well.

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07-31-2013, 02:42 AM
  #150
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Knew he wasn't getting 2M haha. Decent signing though. This move is basically saying only one of the remaining RFA's will be signed.

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