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2013 Philadelphia Phillies (MLB): Charlie Manuel has been fired (Aug. 16)

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07-31-2013, 10:43 AM
  #601
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Tex doesn't want Young, Boston doesn't want Young.

Young needs to accept that nobody wants him.
Boston does. Holt is just a placeholder.

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Red Sox - Phillies now have 4 hours and 23 minutes to figure out a Michael Young deal....Asche will play 3B for Phils...Holt a place holder

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07-31-2013, 10:44 AM
  #602
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Only Chad Qualls could pull this off. Lucky he didnt sprain his ankle . It is like he is trying to do a barrel roll.

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07-31-2013, 11:38 AM
  #603
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Tweet just now says Boston will not make a play on Young.

He's here for the year, maybe the waiver trade deadline, but he stinks, so who cares.

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07-31-2013, 11:42 AM
  #604
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Tweet just now says Boston will not make a play on Young.

He's here for the year, maybe the waiver trade deadline, but he stinks, so who cares.
Do you even like the Phillies? Why are you here?

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07-31-2013, 11:55 AM
  #605
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Originally Posted by Sh0otnSc0re View Post
Do you even like the Phillies? Why are you here?
I can't be critical of a bad team?

Am I supposed to blow Amaro? I don't think he's made 1 good move since he's been here, this team is declining, literally getting worse and worse every year he's taken over.

Lost WS
NLCS
NLDV
Miss Playoffs
Below .500

That is Amaro's track record so far.

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07-31-2013, 12:02 PM
  #606
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I can't be critical of a bad team?

Am I supposed to blow Amaro? I don't think he's made 1 good move since he's been here, this team is declining, literally getting worse and worse every year he's taken over.

Lost WS
NLCS
NLDV
Miss Playoffs
Below .500

That is Amaro's track record so far.

Young is batting .279, with 102 hits. 36 walks. 57 strikeouts. But sure, he "sucks".

I agree - Amaro isn't great.

Every fan should have known this was coming, it was only a matter of time. They had their window and they won a WS in that window.

Anyone who thought they would settle and rebuild or rebuild on the fly, wasn't thinking properly.

Also - How is this full blame on RAJ? shouldn't Manuel be taking some heat as the manager too?


Last edited by SnS: 07-31-2013 at 12:09 PM.
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07-31-2013, 12:24 PM
  #607
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The manager has way less control than a GM over what happens on the field. A manager just sends the players he has out there, and yea he can make good an bad decisions, but he only has the players he's given. The players are far more of a deciding factor in how well the team performs.

The rebuild should have started last year and been continued through this year into the offseason. They could have rebuilt quickly with the talent they have for trade and the money they have to spend. Instead they're unwilling to take back salary, and are stuck with aging players. This team's down time could have been about 3-4 years including this past year and this year, and then they could have started improving like they were about 10 years ago.

Instead its going to be a slow agonizing death. With no prospects coming back into the organization through trade, they could be sending themselves back into the 90's. Their run was sustainable for the foreseeable future if management handled it properly. They could have been a Yankees/Red Sox type of contender, not every year but always in the mix. Instead they've screwed it up pretty bad thus far. It may be a very long time before they get back to the playoffs, and it's sickening because it could have been avoided if there wasn't a buffoon as the GM, and front office suddenly unwilling to spend.

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07-31-2013, 12:30 PM
  #608
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Originally Posted by Protest View Post
The manager has way less control than a GM over what happens on the field. A manager just sends the players he has out there, and yea he can make good an bad decisions, but he only has the players he's given. The players are far more of a deciding factor in how well the team performs.

The rebuild should have started last year and been continued through this year into the offseason. They could have rebuilt quickly with the talent they have for trade and the money they have to spend. Instead they're unwilling to take back salary, and are stuck with aging players. This team's down time could have been about 3-4 years including this past year and this year, and then they could have started improving like they were about 10 years ago.

Instead its going to be a slow agonizing death. With no prospects coming back into the organization through trade, they could be sending themselves back into the 90's. Their run was sustainable for the foreseeable future if management handled it properly. They could have been a Yankees/Red Sox type of contender, not every year but always in the mix. Instead they've screwed it up pretty bad thus far. It may be a very long time before they get back to the playoffs, and it's sickening because it could have been avoided if there wasn't a buffoon as the GM, and front office suddenly unwilling to spend.
Manuel has made some PISS poor decisions over the course of his tenure. Continually trotting certain players that don't belong to be put out there mainly bullpen arms.

I don't understand what some people think could have been done differently. Rollins was staying - it was just a matter of what kind of crazy behind contract he was getting.

Would you rather have gotten another underwhelming project crap for Lee rather than keeping him?

Ideally, we trade Ruiz for something to STL since Molina is now on the DL.

Delmon Young for anything.

Young to Boston. Obviously you won't get a top 10 prospect, but I don't think you'll get a ridiculously outsideded shot prospect if Boston wants him.

Papelbon is likely ours, and he can rebound next season hopefully.

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07-31-2013, 12:34 PM
  #609
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Originally Posted by Sh0otnSc0re View Post
Young is batting .279, with 102 hits. 36 walks. 57 strikeouts. But sure, he "sucks".

I agree - Amaro isn't great.

Every fan should have known this was coming, it was only a matter of time. They had their window and they won a WS in that window.

Anyone who thought they would settle and rebuild or rebuild on the fly, wasn't thinking properly.

Also - How is this full blame on RAJ? shouldn't Manuel be taking some heat as the manager too?
He's a singles hitter that plays some of the worst defense only 2nd to Delmon Young.

I guess, but in baseball there are not many decisions to be made. He doesn't make any pitching decisions that's all Dubee. Amaro built a bottom 5 team and has little to no young players to help fill the void.

Next year they'll have the oldest IF again with no sight of getting younger.

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07-31-2013, 12:37 PM
  #610
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Originally Posted by Hiesenberg View Post
He's a singles hitter that plays some of the worst defense only 2nd to Delmon Young.

I guess, but in baseball there are not many decisions to be made. He doesn't make any pitching decisions that's all Dubee. Amaro built a bottom 5 team and has little to no young players to help fill the void.

Next year they'll have the oldest IF again with no sight of getting younger.
Old doesn't mean they suck. They weren't gonna get much better than Rollins this year. Utley is still a very good 2B. Michael Young is a decent hitting 3B with subpar defense. Ryan Howard is a shell of himself. I was okay with resigning Jimmy.

The problem with this team to me is that their hitting approach is absolutely horrific. Whether that's on the player, or the coaching, is unsure. Ryan Howard fell of a damn cliff somewhere along the line and has been mediocre.

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07-31-2013, 12:43 PM
  #611
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Ruben Amaro needs to be fired. Like Now.

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07-31-2013, 12:46 PM
  #612
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Old doesn't mean they suck. They weren't gonna get much better than Rollins this year. Utley is still a very good 2B. Michael Young is a decent hitting 3B with subpar defense. Ryan Howard is a shell of himself. I was okay with resigning Jimmy.

The problem with this team to me is that their hitting approach is absolutely horrific. Whether that's on the player, or the coaching, is unsure. Ryan Howard fell of a damn cliff somewhere along the line and has been mediocre.
It's on the player 100%. Guys like Rollins & Howard are incredibly impatient, never work counts, barely walk and now because of age, they have very little power.

And old is bad because it typically means more injuries. Howard is done, his career is essentially over. We are all just waiting for Rollins contract to be over, hopefully his option doesn't vest and next year is the last.

Utley is a time bomb, for all we know he doesn't step on the field next year.

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07-31-2013, 01:06 PM
  #613
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Originally Posted by Hiesenberg View Post
It's on the player 100%. Guys like Rollins & Howard are incredibly impatient, never work counts, barely walk and now because of age, they have very little power.

And old is bad because it typically means more injuries. Howard is done, his career is essentially over. We are all just waiting for Rollins contract to be over, hopefully his option doesn't vest and next year is the last.

Utley is a time bomb, for all we know he doesn't step on the field next year.
And it's the coach's job to get them to stop doing that. And if he can't get through to them then he needs to be replaced with someone who will. They need a coach who will coach the team.


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07-31-2013, 01:16 PM
  #614
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Originally Posted by Hiesenberg View Post
It's on the player 100%. Guys like Rollins & Howard are incredibly impatient, never work counts, barely walk and now because of age, they have very little power.

And old is bad because it typically means more injuries. Howard is done, his career is essentially over. We are all just waiting for Rollins contract to be over, hopefully his option doesn't vest and next year is the last.

Utley is a time bomb, for all we know he doesn't step on the field next year.
That's a pretty ludicrous statement. You can say that about literally anyone in the game.

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07-31-2013, 01:16 PM
  #615
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It really sucks that there isnt that aggressive GM out there that would be willing to give up a top prospect for Lee. I certainly don't mind having Lee here, but man, if they just got that young stud position player...that could make the future look a whole lot brighter.

It seems the biggest issue teams have with Lee is his contract...I dont see why Amaro isnt looking into retaining some of his salary to make a big return more likely.

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07-31-2013, 01:18 PM
  #616
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And it's the coach's job to get them to stop doing that. And if he can't get through to them then he needs to be replaced with someone who will. They need a coach who will coach the team.
lol, he's been the coach for 10 damn years and they haven't done it, how the ***** is that his fault?

He can't put a gun to their heads during every AB to do what he says. He says it almost every damn interview.


"It's the coaches job to get them to stop doing it" LMFAO. What a ridiculous statement.

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07-31-2013, 01:19 PM
  #617
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That's a pretty ludicrous statement. You can say that about literally anyone in the game.
True, and the likelihood of somebody missing a season who has degenerative knees is way higher than a perfectly healthy player.

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07-31-2013, 01:21 PM
  #618
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True, and the likelihood of somebody missing a season who has degenerative knees is way higher than a perfectly healthy player.
I agree with you on his knees, but what I am saying is that he has shown no sign of knee problems this year. He's is hitting and fielding at a very good level.

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07-31-2013, 01:21 PM
  #619
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lol, he's been the coach for 10 damn years and they haven't done it, how the ***** is that his fault?

He can't put a gun to their heads during every AB to do what he says. He says it almost every damn interview.


"It's the coaches job to get them to stop doing it" LMFAO. What a ridiculous statement.
Ridiculous? Fine, tell me what the coach's job is then?

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07-31-2013, 01:22 PM
  #620
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Manuel has made some PISS poor decisions over the course of his tenure. Continually trotting certain players that don't belong to be put out there mainly bullpen arms.

I don't understand what some people think could have been done differently. Rollins was staying - it was just a matter of what kind of crazy behind contract he was getting.

Would you rather have gotten another underwhelming project crap for Lee rather than keeping him?

Ideally, we trade Ruiz for something to STL since Molina is now on the DL.

Delmon Young for anything.

Young to Boston. Obviously you won't get a top 10 prospect, but I don't think you'll get a ridiculously outsideded shot prospect if Boston wants him.

Papelbon is likely ours, and he can rebound next season hopefully.
Manuel has made his share of mind numbingly stupid decisions, but he's made them every year. The difference was the team was better back then, and his decisions didn't matter.

Ruiz should have been gone last year. It was a career year and he would have gotten a ton for him. He got hurt a couple days before the deadline, but you don't have to wait til the last day to deal. Ruben traded Pence and Victorino. Guys that were easy to trade because of their down years. He either didn't have the forseight to sell high on Ruiz or didn't have the balls to trade a fan favorite in a career year.

Delmon Young should have been gone a while ago when he was hot and maybe you could get something for him.

Papelbon could have been moved earlier before his blown saves started to mount and his attitude reappeared. You can't wait til the last second to trade relief pitchers because there's always a ton available. He got undercut by other teams. The team also could have eaten salary and got a top prospect for him.

Lee could have gotten 3 top prospects if they were willing to eat salary. Maybe not Bogaerts, but they could have gotten several good MLB ready players for him. all the reports said no one is wiling to give 3 top prospects and pay $70mil.

Rollins has value as he's still one of the top SS in the league, but if he's unwilling to waive his clause your hands are tied there. Still you could consider telling him you want to shop him. Maybe Ruben did, I don't know.

Utley needed to be shopped because even though he may have marginal value, what is he going to provide for this team going forward? They're not going to compete.

The team could have eaten salary and moved Papelbon and Lee, and Ruben could have sold high on Ruiz instead of letting him walk for nothing now. He could have not screwed up the first Lee trade, and gotten older players who were more ready. The Youngs could be moved for whatever, they may still be moved, he has time.

All he's really done is trade Victorino for some pitcher that took myself and several others like 30 seconds of googling to say "this dude doesn't seem like he can pitch outside of Dodger Stadium". And trade Pence for maybe a decent catcher, which is way less than what he gave up to get him.

Honestly he's a poor GM.

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07-31-2013, 01:22 PM
  #621
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I agree with you on his knees, but what I am saying is that he has shown no sign of knee problems this year. He's is hitting and fielding at a very good level.
Yes he has, but he's a rough player, before the knees, he was out long term because of a ball that hit him and a torn thumb from running the bases. The guy has rough miles on him. But I honestly think the knees are behind him, whatever he got done seems to have worked.

Rollins & Howard are bad baseball players.

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07-31-2013, 01:23 PM
  #622
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Ridiculous? Fine, tell me what the coach's job is then?
You don't think he tells them to be more patient?

You really don't think he's said that?

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07-31-2013, 01:27 PM
  #623
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You don't think he tells them to be more patient?

You really don't think he's said that?
I'm sure he has told them that. But like I said, if he can't get through to them, they need to find someone who will.

It's one of those "you can't fire the players" situations. Manual isn't 100% at fault but he does deserve some blame.

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07-31-2013, 01:32 PM
  #624
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I'm sure he has told them that. But like I said, if he can't get through to them, they need to find someone who will.

It's one of those "you can't fire the players" situations. Manual isn't 100% at fault but he does deserve some blame.
They've had lots of coaches over the years and other guys during spring training that have tried to help Howard. It hasn't worked. It's not going to work unless he allows it too.

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07-31-2013, 01:36 PM
  #625
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Jimmy Rollins only cares about Jimmy Rollins, he's not going to give two ***** what any manager asks him to do.

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