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Old
11-03-2006, 06:45 PM
  #1
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team europe

i think it became very obvious last night in san jose and during this road trip that the team europe experiment with this team failed miserably. what the rangers need is to play tough minded grinding hockey north-south and not rely on this euro east-west crap. when guys like orr and hollweg get more ice time the whole team seems to play better than with the softest player in the league (hossa) in the lineup.

also to me it looks like shanahan is becoming the real captain of the team the way he stood up for prucha after mclaren almost killed him. needless to say prucha has become very soft this season and doesnt play with an edge anymore. meanwhile all jagr does is whine to the refs and take stupid hooking penalties while playing no defense whatsoever. i think its time renney seriously thinks about stripping the C off jagr and giving it to shanny.

the defense needs to get rid of the big goof malik and rachunek who is just way too soft for the nhl. dan girardi has been playing well in hartford so why not give him a try instead of these two czechs.

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11-03-2006, 06:48 PM
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What's with all the Euro hate on these boards lately? It's really annoying me.

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11-03-2006, 06:49 PM
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Ya, the "experiment" of team euro failed miserably when we ended the season last year with 100 points.

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11-03-2006, 06:52 PM
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the regular season is meaningless if your players become timid and soft in the playoffs. and sadly that is what tends to happen with european players.

let me say that i dont hate all european players. i think some of them are ok when they act as a supporting cast in a mostly north american team but i have yet to see a team that is prominently european win anything in the nhl. unfortunately they are just not capable of winning the big games.

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11-03-2006, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vargas View Post
the regular season is meaningless if your players become timid and soft in the playoffs. and sadly that is what tends to happen with european players.

let me say that i dont hate all european players. i think some of them are ok when they act as a supporting cast in a mostly north american team but i have yet to see a team that is prominently european win anything in the nhl. unfortunately they are just not capable of winning the big games.
It's just a matter of time.

Do you realise that these are pretty racist comments?

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11-03-2006, 07:22 PM
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DutchShamrock
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Originally Posted by vargas View Post
i think it became very obvious last night in san jose and during this road trip that the team europe experiment with this team failed miserably. what the rangers need is to play tough minded grinding hockey north-south and not rely on this euro east-west crap. when guys like orr and hollweg get more ice time the whole team seems to play better than with the softest player in the league (hossa) in the lineup.

also to me it looks like shanahan is becoming the real captain of the team the way he stood up for prucha after mclaren almost killed him. needless to say prucha has become very soft this season and doesnt play with an edge anymore. meanwhile all jagr does is whine to the refs and take stupid hooking penalties while playing no defense whatsoever. i think its time renney seriously thinks about stripping the C off jagr and giving it to shanny.

the defense needs to get rid of the big goof malik and rachunek who is just way too soft for the nhl. dan girardi has been playing well in hartford so why not give him a try instead of these two czechs.

First off, Hossa was in the lineup, so when you say they looked great without Hossa you immediately come off as some one who doesn't pay attention to detail.

How is Prucha soft? I would define someone as soft when they shy away from hits, avoid traffic areas, and wither under intimidation and physical play. Prucha is always in the slot area, he has no fear of being hit almost to a fault, and in my opinion elevated his game after that hit. He not only didn't get intimidated by McLaren, he went back after Kyle.

Hollweg was a huge part of the win last night, he was as important, if not more so, as the scorers last night. But that doesn't mean Europeans are by and large useless on this team or in this league.

This thread is pretty baseless and rooted in stereotypes that have been disspelled for about 5 years now.

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11-03-2006, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by vargas View Post
meanwhile all jagr does is whine to the refs, lead the league in points, and take stupid hooking penalties while playing no defense whatsoever.
fixed it for you.

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11-03-2006, 08:06 PM
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Do you realise that these are pretty racist comments?
How's that? On the whole, you can expect great skills E-W from Europeans and gritty N-S play from North Americans. The new breed of Europeans is bucking the trend however, as we see from Ovechkin/Olesz/Prucha etc.

Is it racist to say the US isnt as talented as say France in soccer? Its just an observation.

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11-03-2006, 08:10 PM
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Ehh...you're taking it too far. As previous poster said Europeans play more of a finesse game and the Americans play more of a grit game, but let's be honest, Jagr won't ever be stripped of the C simply because of what a great distraction it would be. Shanny does deserve it, but he'll settle with the A. I think Orr is finally going to be playing every night now so no worries there

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11-03-2006, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Il Ragazzone View Post
How's that? On the whole, you can expect great skills E-W from Europeans and gritty N-S play from North Americans. The new breed of Europeans is bucking the trend however, as we see from Ovechkin/Olesz/Prucha etc.

Is it racist to say the US isnt as talented as say France in soccer? Its just an observation.
It's not racist but it's ethnocentric..

Btw how many games do the Rangers European players have to play in North America before they learn the game? Jagr has played close to 1200 games isn't that enough time in the NHL to adapt?

I really can't get to deeply involved in this thread. You can't change hate and it's a waste of time to try..

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11-03-2006, 08:16 PM
  #11
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it's not racist because most europeon hockey players are what society would label 'white', which is also what society would label the majority of North American Hockey players (scientifically the whole race concept is ********, but society constucts the concept and we are forced to deal with it.)

thus saying that North American hockey are X and Europeon hockey players are Y is not racist because because both groups are of the same 'race.'

However, what he is definetely doing is making broad generalzations concerning Europeon hockey players that are in most cases highly exagerated and in others completely untrue.

in the end, it's all pretty stupid.


Last edited by xander: 11-03-2006 at 08:33 PM.
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11-03-2006, 08:17 PM
  #12
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
It's not racist but it's ethnocentric..

Btw how many games do the Rangers European players have to play in North America before they learn the game? Jagr has played close to 1200 games isn't that enough time in the NHL to adapt?

I really can't get to deeply involved in this thread. You can't change hate and it's a waste of time to try..
Well no matter how many games you play in America...you will always have a European style. I mean it's no secret, take a look around the league, not just here, most of the gritty guys are North Americans and most of the goal scorers are Europeans

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11-03-2006, 08:19 PM
  #13
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Originally Posted by True Blue Bleed Blue View Post
Ehh...you're taking it too far. As previous poster said Europeans play more of a finesse game and the Americans play more of a grit game, but let's be honest, Jagr won't ever be stripped of the C simply because of what a great distraction it would be. Shanny does deserve it, but he'll settle with the A. I think Orr is finally going to be playing every night now so no worries there
Why should Jagr lose the C to Shanny?

Shanny has been great for the Rangers but hasn't done an 1/8th of what Jagr has done for this team, for the fans, and for the organization as a whole.

Here is another point and it has nothing to do with leadership but it needs to be said..

If the Rangers lose Shanny to a long term injury it would suck but they would survive.

If the Rangers lost Jagr to a long term injury it's season over..

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11-03-2006, 08:22 PM
  #14
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
Why should Jagr lose the C to Shanny?

Shanny has been great for the Rangers but hasn't done an 1/8th of what Jagr has done for this team, for the fans, and for the organization as a whole.

Here is another point and it has nothing to do with leadership but it needs to be said..

If the Rangers lose Shanny to a long term injury it would suck but they would survive.

If the Rangers lost Jagr to a long term injury it's season over..
Still...I don't think that defines what a captain is. A captain is a guy who leads your team on and off the ice. Jagr hasn't done much leading, defending, or stepping up and protecting some teammates. Shanny on the other hand plays that type of game and I'm sure many would agree that given what we've seen so far, he just seems like more of a captain. Key word here is captain, not MVP, skilled, talented, etc. Captain...and I think Shanny defines that

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11-03-2006, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by True Blue Bleed Blue View Post
Well no matter how many games you play in America...you will always have a European style. I mean it's no secret, take a look around the league, not just here, most of the gritty guys are North Americans and most of the goal scorers are Europeans
Really?

What about guys that have played junior in the CHL? There development is in North America do they count?

or

What about our European players who for the most part spent the years they would've played junior playing in a mens league in.......North America.

Look at where these players are being developed before you want me to look at other teams...

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11-03-2006, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
Really?

What about guys that have played junior in the CHL? There development is in North America do they count?

or

What about our European players who for the most part spent the years they would've played junior playing in a mens league in.......North America.

Look at where these players are being developed before you want me to look at other teams...
Well I think my statement holds true as far as the styles go

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11-03-2006, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue Bleed Blue View Post
Well no matter how many games you play in America...you will always have a European style.
Tell that to Ulf Samuelsson, Peter Forsberg, Vaclav Verada and Mats Sundin.

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11-03-2006, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
Btw how many games do the Rangers European players have to play in North America before they learn the game? Jagr has played close to 1200 games isn't that enough time in the NHL to adapt?

I really can't get to deeply involved in this thread. You can't change hate and it's a waste of time to try..
what does learning the NA game have to do with a players demeanor on the ice? In Ovechkin's one plus year in the NHL, he's already playing a more N-S game than Jagr has and will.

It's not hate...you see the love for Tyutin, Prucha, Lundqvist. It's something about correlating those types of players who play a more western type of game with a greater amount of passion. Regardless of points, Prucha is more liked than Hossa because of this. Prucha hits, takes hits, goes N-S, and hustles his *** off.

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11-03-2006, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Tell that to Ulf Samuelsson, Peter Forsberg, Vaclav Verada and Mats Sundin.
Of course you're gonna have your exceptions, but there are few. Still, the majority of NA's remain grittier than the majority of Europeans

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11-03-2006, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by True Blue Bleed Blue View Post
Well I think my statement holds true as far as the styles go
I don't think so but good luck with that one..

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11-03-2006, 09:16 PM
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What's with all the Euro hate on these boards lately? It's really annoying me.
It's not. The majority of the threads are started by Vargas, giving him a chance to yet again mouth off about his redicilous nationalistic comments.

As for North Americans being grittier than Europeans, overall I'll give it some truth because of differences in hockey culture (fighting belonging to the game, smaller rinks, etc). But, a big but, you import foreign stars, aka Europeans. You don't import foreign grinders, because those you have a ton of in any league. You have grinders in European Hockey Leagues as well of course who are just as gritty as North American grinders. I can give you a couple examples of gritty Swedish players in SEL, but you've probably never heard of them anyway. Why? Because they're no stars. All European players aren't super talents you know, some have to survive by working hard and doing the dirty work on the 3rd and 4th line. No big surprise there huh?

Only the best European players get over the pond. Fine, put Ovechkin on a checking line if you want some grit, but that's just a silly waste of talent, isn't it? That's not why he's here and that's not what the majority of the European players are here for, right?

IF a foreign player makes it to NHL and they're not a star, they still have to be a pretty special role player. Tomas Holmström (DET) is probably a good example of that. Samuel Påhlsson (ANA) another.

As for Europeans being divas never working their *** of every night... Vargas... try saying that to Straka face to face. Or dare say to Lundqvist that he isn't caring about more than his paycheck. In England they would call it bullocks. All players in NHL are there because they love hockey, nothing else. Doesn't matter which country they're from. Why would you otherwise spend 10.000 hours of your life practicing to become a good player? Those in NHL are there because of really hard work, nothing else. Don't fool yourself otherwise.

And, at last, people call Nylander soft because he doesn't check. How is it soft to never shy away from a hit and also being very good at battling for the puck along the boards?

Vargas towards Europeans, just because they have the wrong country in their passports: :
Stop making threads like these. We know you hate them, we've heard it a dozen times. I can't believe I actually gave this thread any time whatsoever to write this.

And Vargas, as for Americans being natural born winners by default or something like that, yeah, we've really seen that in international competitions, haven't we?


Last edited by Chimp: 11-03-2006 at 09:47 PM.
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11-03-2006, 10:37 PM
  #22
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^Thats a good post, I also think there are many more grinders in Europe, its just the NHl doesnt look into them. When they scout Europe they want the next Jagr, they dont look for the next Ortmeyer or Hollweg. I notice many of the newer European players are a bit more grinders than some of the older players. Thena again, the North American players arent as N-S as they were 10-15 years ago, both sides are trying to adapt.

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11-04-2006, 03:43 AM
  #23
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Good one Chimp.
I'm always laughing when i see these kind of post from vargas or dagoon, makes my day everytime
I think we all can be happy that there are different styles between NA and Europe, together mixed it makes one great league, NHL.
And you can't even argue which style is better, just check Olympics since Nagano, World Cup, or WCH. It's still Canada, Sweden, Czech Republic, Finland.

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11-04-2006, 04:09 AM
  #24
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About the C

The beauty of Shanahan is that he doesn't need a 'C' or an 'A' to be a leader on this team, he just leads. There's no reason stripping Jagr of the 'C' now that he has it. If anything it could prove quite disasterous, all Jagr does so far is lead the league in points while playing with one hand.

What's the problem?

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11-04-2006, 04:20 AM
  #25
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Originally Posted by Il Ragazzone View Post
How's that? On the whole, you can expect great skills E-W from Europeans and gritty N-S play from North Americans. The new breed of Europeans is bucking the trend however, as we see from Ovechkin/Olesz/Prucha etc.

Is it racist to say the US isnt as talented as say France in soccer? Its just an observation.
I'll remember this comment when European teams are wiping the floor with the US team in international competition again..

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