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Is there ANYWAY to turn Hemsky into a 2-WAY player?

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08-02-2013, 12:40 AM
  #1
TheNumber4
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Is there ANYWAY to turn Hemsky into a 2-WAY player?

I think that'll be our only hope. Right now it's looking like nobody's biting on the Hemsky trade front. Mac T seems to have implied in a recent interview that Hemmer will be playing on the roster. With that being said, if Hemsky plays like he did last year with BONEHEAD giveaways inside of out blueline and little to no grit, his negative value will detract from what our 3rd line can be. No he did have a couple good scoring spurts last year, but even then, on the 3rd line even when his offensive game is on he will have less minutes and less skilled linemates.

So in my view, the only way for Hemsky in Oil Silks to work is for Hemsky to BE BETTER. If Hemsky can even attain let's say half of Hossa's defensive game, he'd be awesome. But Hemsky can get lazy and can get hurt easy. I think Hemsky's gotta spend 1 summer just BULKING up.

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08-02-2013, 12:43 AM
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Hemsky has a history of going head to head against the other teams 1st line and coming out ahead.

There's nothing to change except for the fact he's European, doesn't like to give interviews to the Spector's of the world, and won't hammer anyone into the boards.

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08-02-2013, 12:52 AM
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Steve BachIntyre
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I think Burns made a comment about Hemskys hickey


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08-02-2013, 01:08 AM
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Originally Posted by PDO View Post
Hemsky has a history of going head to head against the other teams 1st line and coming out ahead.

There's nothing to change except for the fact he's European, doesn't like to give interviews to the Spector's of the world, and won't hammer anyone into the boards.
This. If Hemsky's healthy, he will push the play up the ice. Him playing with Gordon and Smyth/Jones/Joenssu might not be a bad 3rd line.
I expect he will get his share of PP time as well.

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08-02-2013, 01:57 AM
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08-02-2013, 02:00 AM
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Originally Posted by PDO View Post
Hemsky has a history of going head to head against the other teams 1st line and coming out ahead.
What a load of crap.

What one or two seasons was that?

How long ago?

We arent interested in history, we want the team to be better NOW.

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08-02-2013, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by PDO View Post
Hemsky has a history of going head to head against the other teams 1st line and coming out ahead.

There's nothing to change except for the fact he's European, doesn't like to give interviews to the Spector's of the world, and won't hammer anyone into the boards.
Uhh what? That was when we had Pronger on the team, who single handedly made everyone on the team look better. After Pronger left, Hemsky's line would be outshot well over half the games they played.

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08-02-2013, 08:37 AM
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Mr Sakich
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
What a load of crap.

What one or two seasons was that?

How long ago?

We arent interested in history, we want the team to be better NOW.
I think that you are incorrect. The following information is the year, hemsky's most common on ice teamates, goals/60 for, goals/60 against, 10 highest ice time opponents

2007-8, Horc + penner, .849, .809, Kesler, Stasny, Koivu, Hejduk, Nolan, Tanguay, Gaborik, Iggy, Zett, Radiovich

2008-9, Horc + Penner, .839, .755, Burrows, Kopitar, Iggy, Neidermeyer, Jokinen, Koivu, Bolland, Ladd, Steen, Zett

2009-10, Horc + Penner, 1.13, .65, Jokinen, Nash, Iggy, Moss, Huselius, Wolski, Kane, Stasny, Burrows, Jones

2010-11, Penner + Gagner, .926, .990, Toews, Jokinen, Stallberg, Iggy, Tanguay, Kane, Hagman, Koivu, Zett, Havlat

The trends are quite clear. From 2007 - 2010, Hemsky played with Horc + Penner and outscored the oppositions best players. The vast majority of his ice time was vs the other teams top 2 lines.

In 2010, Horc was replaced by Gagner on his line and the result was that the other teams best players outscored Hemsky's line by 10%. Not terrible but it validates the value Horc had.

This year, the plan is to play Hemsky with Gordon and one of Jones or Jonescu. Gordon is an upgrade over Horc and plays a very similar style. The challenge is to find a LW who can fill Penner's role.

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08-02-2013, 08:41 AM
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It's going to be interesting to see how he adjusts. There might be some obscure stats that show he's an 'ok' defensive player, but his giveaways at the blueline and in the neutral zone may be the worst in the entire league. Thankfully he also is capable of making the other team just as dumb.

Time will tell how he fits in a lesser role this year. The idea that he's a two way player seems laughable to me. Prime case of actually watching a guy play trumping advanced statistics as far as I am concerned. But who knows, maybe he'll surprise.

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08-02-2013, 08:53 AM
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It's going to be interesting to see how he adjusts. There might be some obscure stats that show he's an 'ok' defensive player, but his giveaways at the blueline and in the neutral zone may be the worst in the entire league. Thankfully he also is capable of making the other team just as dumb.

Time will tell how he fits in a lesser role this year. The idea that he's a two way player seems laughable to me. Prime case of actually watching a guy play trumping advanced statistics as far as I am concerned. But who knows, maybe he'll surprise.
agreed, I am skeptical of advanced stats. They can be useful but have to be taken into context.

what I listed was who he played with, who he played against, and who got outscored. The summary is quite obvious. He played with Horc + Penner vs the other teams top 2 lines and outscored them.

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08-02-2013, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr Sakich View Post
I think that you are incorrect. The following information is the year, hemsky's most common on ice teamates, goals/60 for, goals/60 against, 10 highest ice time opponents

2007-8, Horc + penner, .849, .809, Kesler, Stasny, Koivu, Hejduk, Nolan, Tanguay, Gaborik, Iggy, Zett, Radiovich

2008-9, Horc + Penner, .839, .755, Burrows, Kopitar, Iggy, Neidermeyer, Jokinen, Koivu, Bolland, Ladd, Steen, Zett

2009-10, Horc + Penner, 1.13, .65, Jokinen, Nash, Iggy, Moss, Huselius, Wolski, Kane, Stasny, Burrows, Jones

2010-11, Penner + Gagner, .926, .990, Toews, Jokinen, Stallberg, Iggy, Tanguay, Kane, Hagman, Koivu, Zett, Havlat

The trends are quite clear. From 2007 - 2010, Hemsky played with Horc + Penner and outscored the oppositions best players. The vast majority of his ice time was vs the other teams top 2 lines.

In 2010, Horc was replaced by Gagner on his line and the result was that the other teams best players outscored Hemsky's line by 10%. Not terrible but it validates the value Horc had.

This year, the plan is to play Hemsky with Gordon and one of Jones or Jonescu. Gordon is an upgrade over Horc and plays a very similar style. The challenge is to find a LW who can fill Penner's role.
Great stats. I think highlighting Gagner's shortcomings defensively as a small, slow center, instead of as a Horcoff endorsement.

Hemsky can be important to a line's 2-way success because he adds a strong ability to transition the puck up the ice, often single handedly. Can't have all pluggers on a line unless you really just want to turn over possession and play dump and chase.

Last year Hemsky was guilty too often of bad turnovers in his own end. This is a guy who typically leads the team in turnovers. Part of that is just correlation to how often he has the puck on his stick, part of that we can hope to improve for him to be a better 2 way player.

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08-02-2013, 09:41 AM
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How abour we roll 3 scoring lines... We know Joensuu has some supposed offense.. If not him then Smyth..

Pair up Hall and Yak, Nuge and Ebs and Perron-Gagner

Joensuu-RNH-Eberle
Hall-Gordon-Yakupov
Perron-Gagner-Hemsky

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08-02-2013, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr Sakich View Post
I think that you are incorrect. The following information is the year, hemsky's most common on ice teamates, goals/60 for, goals/60 against, 10 highest ice time opponents

2007-8, Horc + penner, .849, .809, Kesler, Stasny, Koivu, Hejduk, Nolan, Tanguay, Gaborik, Iggy, Zett, Radiovich

2008-9, Horc + Penner, .839, .755, Burrows, Kopitar, Iggy, Neidermeyer, Jokinen, Koivu, Bolland, Ladd, Steen, Zett

2009-10, Horc + Penner, 1.13, .65, Jokinen, Nash, Iggy, Moss, Huselius, Wolski, Kane, Stasny, Burrows, Jones

2010-11, Penner + Gagner, .926, .990, Toews, Jokinen, Stallberg, Iggy, Tanguay, Kane, Hagman, Koivu, Zett, Havlat

The trends are quite clear. From 2007 - 2010, Hemsky played with Horc + Penner and outscored the oppositions best players. The vast majority of his ice time was vs the other teams top 2 lines.

In 2010, Horc was replaced by Gagner on his line and the result was that the other teams best players outscored Hemsky's line by 10%. Not terrible but it validates the value Horc had.

This year, the plan is to play Hemsky with Gordon and one of Jones or Jonescu. Gordon is an upgrade over Horc and plays a very similar style. The challenge is to find a LW who can fill Penner's role.
Hey look, some facts.

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08-02-2013, 10:08 AM
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Useless post.

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08-02-2013, 10:12 AM
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What a load of crap.

What one or two seasons was that?

How long ago?

We arent interested in history, we want the team to be better NOW.
Wow you're getting grumpier all the time. Negative Nelly. Hockey will come soon and all will be well.

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08-02-2013, 10:39 AM
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Hemsky is a decent two way player right now. But he is not a checker. Big difference.

Two way play WAS the biggest flaw to his game many years ago.

I think anyone who watches hockey closely would notice Hemsky skating lazily back to the defensive zone too many times years ago. The same can not be said for the last few. He has made great strides in his game in that department. I also think at least some of his lower point production stems from playing both sides of the puck rather than just one.

And Hemsky has traditionaly been put against the other teams top checking line/defensive pairing and still done well.

Hemsky is a very good player and should be on any successful teams top 6. But where once he was very clearly a top line winger he has fallen to top 6 and just hasn't consistently produced enough to keep up with the opposition or his teammates.

I really hope he bounces back, with the Oilers or without them. I always felt he had 80 point + potential.

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08-02-2013, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Petro Points View Post
How abour we roll 3 scoring lines... We know Joensuu has some supposed offense.. If not him then Smyth..

Pair up Hall and Yak, Nuge and Ebs and Perron-Gagner

Joensuu-RNH-Eberle
Hall-Gordon-Yakupov
Perron-Gagner-Hemsky
I think we are worrying too much about hemsky just getting buried on the third line. I think we will end up seeing lines like this for a big part of the year. Also Hemsky will get a chance on the power play. Hemmer will have enough opportunity to put up points.

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08-02-2013, 11:02 AM
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I think that'll be our only hope. Right now it's looking like nobody's biting on the Hemsky trade front. Mac T seems to have implied in a recent interview that Hemmer will be playing on the roster. With that being said, if Hemsky plays like he did last year with BONEHEAD giveaways inside of out blueline and little to no grit, his negative value will detract from what our 3rd line can be. No he did have a couple good scoring spurts last year, but even then, on the 3rd line even when his offensive game is on he will have less minutes and less skilled linemates.

So in my view, the only way for Hemsky in Oil Silks to work is for Hemsky to BE BETTER. If Hemsky can even attain let's say half of Hossa's defensive game, he'd be awesome. But Hemsky can get lazy and can get hurt easy. I think Hemsky's gotta spend 1 summer just BULKING up.
Can you get a tiger to change it's stripes? Can you turn a rock into a diamond? Can you teach an old dog new tricks? I think you know the answer without even having to start a thread asking about it.

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08-02-2013, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by PDO View Post
Hemsky has a history of going head to head against the other teams 1st line and coming out ahead.

There's nothing to change except for the fact he's European, doesn't like to give interviews to the Spector's of the world, and won't hammer anyone into the boards.


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08-02-2013, 11:09 AM
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This thread is CONFUSED.

Wow.... Ales Hemsky is an established 2-way player. Is he a defensive stalwart? No. But who would expect that from a player of his ilk? You can't expect a Chevy Corvette to attach a hitch, torque up and be and tow like a Ford F-150. It's just not how he was made. However, given his skillsets, Hemmer is a wonderfully rounded player.

The question isn't whether Ales can turn into a 2-way player. The REAL question is if Ales Hemsky can turn into a 3rd line checker that can pot 15-20 goals like Mikael Samuelson did for Detroit and Vancouver, or to a lesser extent, Sami Pahlsson for the Ducks.

It's just never going to happen. Turning Hemmer into a checker is not in the cards.

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08-02-2013, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr Sakich View Post
I think that you are incorrect. The following information is the year, hemsky's most common on ice teamates, goals/60 for, goals/60 against, 10 highest ice time opponents

2007-8, Horc + penner, .849, .809, Kesler, Stasny, Koivu, Hejduk, Nolan, Tanguay, Gaborik, Iggy, Zett, Radiovich

2008-9, Horc + Penner, .839, .755, Burrows, Kopitar, Iggy, Neidermeyer, Jokinen, Koivu, Bolland, Ladd, Steen, Zett

2009-10, Horc + Penner, 1.13, .65, Jokinen, Nash, Iggy, Moss, Huselius, Wolski, Kane, Stasny, Burrows, Jones

2010-11, Penner + Gagner, .926, .990, Toews, Jokinen, Stallberg, Iggy, Tanguay, Kane, Hagman, Koivu, Zett, Havlat

The trends are quite clear. From 2007 - 2010, Hemsky played with Horc + Penner and outscored the oppositions best players. The vast majority of his ice time was vs the other teams top 2 lines.

In 2010, Horc was replaced by Gagner on his line and the result was that the other teams best players outscored Hemsky's line by 10%. Not terrible but it validates the value Horc had.

This year, the plan is to play Hemsky with Gordon and one of Jones or Jonescu. Gordon is an upgrade over Horc and plays a very similar style. The challenge is to find a LW who can fill Penner's role.
No, don't worry, numbers don't mean anything. Much easier to throw around statements like "a load of crap" when I don't get my way.

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08-02-2013, 11:39 AM
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I think if that 3rd line gets some decently high minutes (which it should) - 10-12min ESTOI, with 2min PP for Hemsky, he should be able to produce quite well in that low-pressure role.

Things I like about that setup - Hemsky returns to his role as the man with the puck on his stick on his line. Hasn't seen that since the days of being paired with Horcoff and Penner.

It also adds that element of unpredictability for opposition teams. It was pretty easy to play routine systems D and hope to stop our 3rd line in years past. What are you going to do with one of the more dangerous players off the rush in the league streaking down the right side against some of your lower-level players?

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08-02-2013, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Stoneman89 View Post
I don't understand these responses. What he said is an undeniable fact backed up by numbers.

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08-02-2013, 11:48 AM
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I don't understand these responses. What he said is an undeniable fact backed up by numbers.
Agreed. WTF is so funny? Hemsky's an awesome all-around player. We're trading him not because he sucks, but because we have replaced him with younger players who offers the same package at a higher upside.

I wonder is Washington would do a Brouwer for Hemmer swap. Brouwer would fit the third line like a glove with Gordon.

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08-02-2013, 05:19 PM
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Agreed. WTF is so funny? Hemsky's an awesome all-around player. We're trading him not because he sucks, but because we have replaced him with younger players who offers the same package at a higher upside.

I wonder is Washington would do a Brouwer for Hemmer swap. Brouwer would fit the third line like a glove with Gordon.

You're making me laugh again. Thanks for the chuckles before the weekend!

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