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Old
08-01-2013, 12:09 PM
  #151
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Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
I dont know if its a plus that Darcy would stand to the side like that, I want my GM to be a leader type. But yeah, Devine getting power to do what he wants in the draft is a good move by Regier.

But who works with Regier in terms of other GM duties? Like what to do with Vanek?
You could sell me on Darcy fumbling the Vanek situation if that's what you're suggesting. I'd think you have a better case with Miller, however; he probably should have been traded by now. Both Vanek and Millers maximum value might be out the window but Vanek's is at least still on hanging out on the ledge. Meanwhile, Miller's is in freefall. For Darcy to get the value he wants from a Miller trade, he has to hope for a team to incur a long term injury or unexpected poor play from their goaltending.

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08-01-2013, 12:28 PM
  #152
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I think the video is a good example of how Regeir has a job. He doesn't let his ego get in the way and works well with his owner and staff in making every decision. My issue with Regeir in the past is that individually each move made perfect sense but the moves put together assemble a roster that didn't seem to have a lot of holes. Now, Pegula has been clear on what he wants. He wants a team with a certain identity-hardworking, high character and tough. Now with the big picture in place, Regier with not so subtle help from Devine can make the individual moves to allow that big picture to come to fruition.
I think it's an excellent setup and one I've been hoping for the Sabres to pursue for some time. Thrilled to see that it might actually be the plan for the Sabres as well.

Generally, I think Darcy Regier is great at the team managing aspects of being a GM, such as getting good value in trades, managing the cap, making roster moves that don't break the CBA, getting people under contract etc. Where he has shown himself to be not very good is in putting the right pieces together. Seems like the past few seasons every time we've tried to plug a hole the moves made have just created another. That's why it's so exciting to see Devine step up and seemingly handle the part of evaluating what type of players will move the team forward with a plan and then identifying which pieces to get.

It's natural to be gloomy about the Sabres with the way the past few years have gone, but I feel that there is a rock solid foundation being put in place and I am very excited to see where it will take us.

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08-01-2013, 12:36 PM
  #153
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You could sell me on Darcy fumbling the Vanek situation if that's what you're suggesting. I'd think you have a better case with Miller, however; he probably should have been traded by now. Both Vanek and Millers maximum value might be out the window but Vanek's is at least still on hanging out on the ledge. Meanwhile, Miller's is in freefall. For Darcy to get the value he wants from a Miller trade, he has to hope for a team to incur a long term injury or unexpected poor play from their goaltending.
A thought struck me early this morning based on Vanek's own (seemingly) noncommittal attitude towards the rebuild. I guess it is possible that Vanek and Regier have an understanding that Vanek starts the year off in Buffalo to give both sides a chance to assess how far away the team is from competing.

If Hodgson takes another big step forward, Grigorenko figures it out and Stafford, Ennis, Foligno and Leino find their groove the team will be a lot better than what most people expect. So, if Vanek would prefer to stay in Buffalo for a contender he might be willing to resign here if all signs are pointing to the rebuild being shorter than expected. He did say waaaay back when that he would be OK with a short rebuild if I remember correctly. If the team is as ***** as everyone thinks it will be, the promise is that he will be gone at or before the deadline.

In any case, the Sabres have one thing going for them here: It's the only place in the NHL that Vanek can be 100% sure that he will never be centered by Derek Roy.

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08-01-2013, 12:52 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
I blame the guy I feel is in charge. Simple as that. If Regier is not in charge then why do people give him credit for certain moves?
If Darcy is not in charge, why do people blame him for certain moves?
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I have blamed Larry Quinn and past ownership before, and then I see similar things happening under Pegula now. So what am I supposed to think?
Not sure what similar things you see between "GOLISANO and Crew" and Pegula.

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I like the last few drafts, and I gave Regier credit. I was obviously giving the wrong guy credit. Its Devine who gets the credit. Why even defend Regier? There is nothing to even say other then the guy had his hands tied, which is a poor argument.
I'm not exactly sure how many years Devine was the main guy making the drafting decisions. If he's just got the power, then you can give him credit all you want but give credit to Darcy for last year's draft. I'm pretty sure Devine has been with the Sabres organization for a while now, if he is making the decisions, then he needs to be held accountable for the mistakes from drafts of previous years.

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I have accepted the fact Regier may be here for a while longer, I just cant keep reading how confident people are in him until there is actual evidence that supports it. I dont have any faith in Regier, and I dont understand why any Sabres fan would.
It really doesn't matter how many fans dislike Darcy, the only guy Darcy has to impress is his boss. He's been doing this for 16+ years and still has his job.

I hate Darcy as much as the next guy, but you can't blame one aspect of his job on him when something unfavorable happens, and at the same time give credit to someone else for another aspect of his job. When you do that, you really are presenting the side of: I don't like Darc,y so anything negative, I'll blame him for it, and anything positive, its because of someone else. That doesnt come off as someone who wants to think rationally, it comes off as someone with a vendetta against him regardless how well or how bad of a job he does.

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08-01-2013, 01:33 PM
  #155
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If Darcy is not in charge, why do people blame him for certain moves?
Not sure what similar things you see between "GOLISANO and Crew" and Pegula.

I'm not exactly sure how many years Devine was the main guy making the drafting decisions. If he's just got the power, then you can give him credit all you want but give credit to Darcy for last year's draft. I'm pretty sure Devine has been with the Sabres organization for a while now, if he is making the decisions, then he needs to be held accountable for the mistakes from drafts of previous years.

It really doesn't matter how many fans dislike Darcy, the only guy Darcy has to impress is his boss. He's been doing this for 16+ years and still has his job.

I hate Darcy as much as the next guy, but you can't blame one aspect of his job on him when something unfavorable happens, and at the same time give credit to someone else for another aspect of his job. When you do that, you really are presenting the side of: I don't like Darc,y so anything negative, I'll blame him for it, and anything positive, its because of someone else. That doesnt come off as someone who wants to think rationally, it comes off as someone with a vendetta against him regardless how well or how bad of a job he does.
The lack of urgency is my #1 issue with Regier. Trading away a captain. Please find me a team with more players wearing the C since Regier took over the Sabres. For some reason he hates captains. These are things that have carried over into the Pegula era.

Not to mention missing playoffs, which since 2001 the Sabres are one of the worst teams in the NHL at making the playoffs.

As for your last point, I dont pick and choose with Darcy. I dont have to. The results are not there to even make good arguments in favor of Regier. He has money now to build and keep a team together people say, but I think he kept the last core together no problem. Money was there. I think many contracts he has handed out have been poor as well.

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08-01-2013, 06:44 PM
  #156
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The lack of urgency is my #1 issue with Regier. Trading away a captain. Please find me a team with more players wearing the C since Regier took over the Sabres. For some reason he hates captains. These are things that have carried over into the Pegula era.
This is so dumb. Why does it matter that it was the captain who was traded? C or not he makes that trade - Buffalo is a rebuilding team and Pommer was an asset. Ottawa, Tampa Bay, the Islanders, Dallas, Calgary and Edmonton all lost (traded, bought out, left in FA) their captains, all of whom were longer serving captains than Pominville, at some point this year. The ones who were traded didn't get anywhere close to the package Regier did. You're making a problem out of nothing here.


These videos are fantastic, I've really loved the two draft related ones they've done. Wish they were longer. Also becomes clear that the rumoured trade up to 5 was in order to get Ristolainen, making the 2013 draft that much sweeter.

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08-01-2013, 07:12 PM
  #157
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This is so dumb. Why does it matter that it was the captain who was traded? C or not he makes that trade - Buffalo is a rebuilding team and Pommer was an asset. Ottawa, Tampa Bay, the Islanders, Dallas, Calgary and Edmonton all lost (traded, bought out, left in FA) their captains, all of whom were longer serving captains than Pominville, at some point this year. The ones who were traded didn't get anywhere close to the package Regier did. You're making a problem out of nothing here.


These videos are fantastic, I've really loved the two draft related ones they've done. Wish they were longer. Also becomes clear that the rumoured trade up to 5 was in order to get Ristolainen, making the 2013 draft that much sweeter.
Im not making any problem, its just a fact that since Regier has been GM there has been no one I can call captain. Everyone is Captain for a couple years and gone.

Give me a captain for 5-6+ years. Its not really about Pominville, is about the Sabres identity. If you dont think leadership has been a problem for this team while Regier was GM then I dont know what team you have been watching.

People say its not a big deal, IMO its EVERYTHING wrong with Regier's rosters. Lack of leadership.

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08-01-2013, 07:29 PM
  #158
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Im not making any problem, its just a fact that since Regier has been GM there has been no one I can call captain. Everyone is Captain for a couple years and gone.

Give me a captain for 5-6+ years. Its not really about Pominville, is about the Sabres identity. If you dont think leadership has been a problem for this team while Regier was GM then I dont know what team you have been watching.

People say its not a big deal, IMO its EVERYTHING wrong with Regier's rosters. Lack of leadership.
Which is why I'm excited for Girgensons arrival on the roster. I don't want to say he's going to completely change the culture, but him and the addition of the new blood, his type of attitude and the way he exudes it is contagious and I'm hoping that it rubs off on some of the players we got now.

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08-01-2013, 08:24 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
Im not making any problem, its just a fact that since Regier has been GM there has been no one I can call captain. Everyone is Captain for a couple years and gone.

Give me a captain for 5-6+ years. Its not really about Pominville, is about the Sabres identity. If you dont think leadership has been a problem for this team while Regier was GM then I dont know what team you have been watching.

People say its not a big deal, IMO its EVERYTHING wrong with Regier's rosters. Lack of leadership.
lets just ignore the fact that he acquired 2 incredible leaders, and the stupid policies of ownership allowed them to get away, and for a Stanley Cup contender, built entirely by Regier fell apart when the foundational pieces were stripped by the stupidity of ownership

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08-02-2013, 06:23 AM
  #160
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lets just ignore the fact that he acquired 2 incredible leaders, and the stupid policies of ownership allowed them to get away, and for a Stanley Cup contender, built entirely by Regier fell apart when the foundational pieces were stripped by the stupidity of ownership
Do you ever wonder what regier was doing or saying as the clock ticked down to July 1st 2007? Was he being agressive with ownership to get them to do whatever it takes to get one signed? Or do you think he just sat and waited?

I imagine he was was just waiting. The money was there, they spent it, so maybe if Regier demanded something get done then it does get done. Maybe it puts Regier's job on the line by demanding something, but thats how it works IMO. Being nice and just going along with everything is how you stay employed without winning for 16 years.

As for aquiring leadership, I think there is a guy right now who shows leadership qualities. Mike Weber immediately comes to mind. Why not slap the C on Weber. He will be your #4 D, so he is important. He lays it on the line every night. He is young enough to play at a high level for 5-6+ years.

Maybe Ehrhoff. Long-term contract, #1 D. Shows some leadership qualities, long-term contract. Not going anywhere anytime soon. Slap the C on him.

I will laugh my butt off if Vanek is captain to start the year without a contract. Maybe they think by making him captain he will want to re-sign or something.


Last edited by SabresAreScaryGood: 08-02-2013 at 06:29 AM.
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08-02-2013, 06:53 AM
  #161
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Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
Do you ever wonder what regier was doing or saying as the clock ticked down to July 1st 2007? Was he being agressive with ownership to get them to do whatever it takes to get one signed? Or do you think he just sat and waited?

I imagine he was was just waiting. The money was there, they spent it, so maybe if Regier demanded something get done then it does get done. Maybe it puts Regier's job on the line by demanding something, but thats how it works IMO. Being nice and just going along with everything is how you stay employed without winning for 16 years.
on July 1st he submitted the offer to Drury

the context is that :
- Ownership prevented him from making the offer in season
- Ownerhsip limited him to a 3 year offer to Briere the previous offseason (briere wanted 5 years)

i guess if i had an agenda, i would wonder about things that fit my agenda

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As for aquiring leadership, I think there is a guy right now who shows leadership qualities. Mike Weber immediately comes to mind. Why not slap the C on Weber. He will be your #4 D, so he is important. He lays it on the line every night. He is young enough to play at a high level for 5-6+ years.
I started a thread a few months ago titled "Weber will be the next Captain"

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08-02-2013, 07:14 AM
  #162
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Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
Im not making any problem, its just a fact that since Regier has been GM there has been no one I can call captain. Everyone is Captain for a couple years and gone.

Give me a captain for 5-6+ years. Its not really about Pominville, is about the Sabres identity. If you dont think leadership has been a problem for this team while Regier was GM then I dont know what team you have been watching.

People say its not a big deal, IMO its EVERYTHING wrong with Regier's rosters. Lack of leadership.
That is a Buffalo Sabres tradition that started before Regier got here.



Perreault is the only captain to last 6 seasons and LaFontaine is the only other Sabres captain to last 5 seasons.

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08-02-2013, 07:23 AM
  #163
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
on July 1st he submitted the offer to Drury

the context is that :
- Ownership prevented him from making the offer in season
- Ownerhsip limited him to a 3 year offer to Briere the previous offseason (briere wanted 5 years)

i guess if i had an agenda, i would wonder about things that fit my agenda



I started a thread a few months ago titled "Weber will be the next Captain"
I picture Regier just going along with it instead of making his case and putting his job on the line for a player. I just think that is who he is. I remember Briere saying on Kiss 98.5 after he was awarded a 1 year deal for $5 million he said 4 years was never offered. So if they were only offering 3 years, Reger couldnt convince management to go for 1 more year? It happened with Lydman as well.

I wasnt in the room, so I dont know. I just believe Regier is not the type to fight for something he believes. Thats just my opinion.

Its not really about having his hands tied, I just wondered what Regier tried to do to get some of those guys signed. I dont think he has the guts.

At least we agree on Weber.

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08-02-2013, 07:25 AM
  #164
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That is a Buffalo Sabres tradition that started before Regier got here.



Perreault is the only captain to last 6 seasons and LaFontaine is the only other Sabres captain to last 5 seasons.
Before Regier they were normal. They had 9 players wear the C over 26 years. Since Regier, 15 players have worn the C in 15 years. A lot of that is rotating captains, which I hated.

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08-02-2013, 07:34 AM
  #165
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Before Regier they were normal. They had 9 players wear the C over 26 years. Since Regier, 15 players have worn the C in 15 years.
That's a little slanted because they had 6 different captains during the 2007-08 season and Pominville is the only guy that became a captain after.

And in 2003-04 they had five different captains with Drury & Briere as the only guys to wear it after.

Satan, Patrick, Dumont, Hecht, Lydman, Campbell, and Spacek all wore the C for only a month (or two in Hecht's case).

Take those guys out and it's Peca, Barnes, Briere, Drury, Rivet, and Pominville over 13 or so seasons.

Besides, Ruff had more control on the captain situation than Regier did.

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08-02-2013, 08:44 AM
  #166
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I picture Regier just going along with it instead of making his case and putting his job on the line for a player. I just think that is who he is. I remember Briere saying on Kiss 98.5 after he was awarded a 1 year deal for $5 million he said 4 years was never offered. So if they were only offering 3 years, Reger couldnt convince management to go for 1 more year? It happened with Lydman as well.

I wasnt in the room, so I dont know. I just believe Regier is not the type to fight for something he believes. Thats just my opinion.

Its not really about having his hands tied, I just wondered what Regier tried to do to get some of those guys signed. I dont think he has the guts.

At least we agree on Weber.
So even when ownership tells Regier no, it's his fault because he didn't tell them yes?

Right.

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08-02-2013, 09:14 AM
  #167
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Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
I picture Regier just going along with it instead of making his case and putting his job on the line for a player. I just think that is who he is. I remember Briere saying on Kiss 98.5 after he was awarded a 1 year deal for $5 million he said 4 years was never offered. So if they were only offering 3 years, Reger couldnt convince management to go for 1 more year? It happened with Lydman as well.
You mean ownership....
Ownership had rules, a business plan, a budget/financials.... Regier job was to work within it...

Your insistence on blaming Regier for Golisano/Quinn's business plan is hollow.

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I wasnt in the room, so I dont know. I just believe Regier is not the type to fight for something he believes. Thats just my opinion.
at least you admit that it isn't an informed opinion... it's an agenda opinion


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Its not really about having his hands tied, I just wondered what Regier tried to do to get some of those guys signed. I dont think he has the guts.
That's exactly what it's about... at least to those of us that operate with known facts. You choose to speculate wildly, because the known facts don't fit your agenda/anger.

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At least we agree on Weber.
I'm captain of the the "Weber for Captain" bandwagon there aren't many on board.

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08-02-2013, 09:20 AM
  #168
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So even when ownership tells Regier no, it's his fault because he didn't tell them yes?

Right.
Lets just remember the team got worse when he had ownership that always says yes. So when you want to defend Regier remember that he was given a blank check, felt he had a cup team, and failed miserably. Now he gets a great chance to rebuild with a great owner. I dont believe he deserves this chance. I think he lost that by wasting rebuild years when Pegula 1st came here.

But going back to that era, I dont know what to believe. I know there was a report Drury had a contract but the Sabres waited. I know there was a report that the Sabres had no contact with Briere his final year, and then tried to sign him after Drury said no.

I know Regier likes to wait. Every national reporter says Regier likes to wait.

Is it fair to believe Regier is the one who waited on the Drury contract? Sure it is. Is it fair to believe Regier let a whole year go by without talking to Brier's agent? Sure it is.

I remember the exact reason given for waiting on Drury, they didnt want Briere to get upset, which would hurt the locker room. I seem to remember Regier talking about preventing jealousies in the locker room.

I cant eliminate Regier from that mess like some fans can. But honestly, its not why i am so upset with Regier right now. I am upset with Regier because somehow he gets the chance to rebuild with a great owner like Pegula but Lindy Ruff didnt. Lindy Ruff had the hardest job under past owners, and he somehow took teams that were not predicated to do well pretty far. I felt both GM and coach should have been gone or both stay. OR, fire Ruff and let a new coach try and get the most out of Regier's core he kept for so long. Not fire Ruff, get rid of the previous core and start over with Regier running the show.

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08-02-2013, 09:21 AM
  #169
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I'm captain of the the "Weber for Captain" bandwagon there aren't many on board.
IF Weber solidifies his position as a constant starter this year if all for it in 2014-15. I have a feeling this is a rotating/temp captain type year.

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08-02-2013, 09:55 AM
  #170
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Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
Lets just remember the team got worse when he had ownership that always says yes. So when you want to defend Regier remember that he was given a blank check, felt he had a cup team, and failed miserably.
Now he gets a great chance to rebuild with a great owner. I dont believe he deserves this chance. I think he lost that by wasting rebuild years when Pegula 1st came here.
Pegula wanted to win a cup in 3 years... You really fail to see the impact of ownership in the direction of a franchise

that hot run to the playoffs when Pegula bought the team, definitely set them back a few years. there is no doubt that it built false hope. the new owner wanted to throw money around... he felt money could solve the problem.

they also underestimated the desire of players to come to buffalo (Richards, Doan, Parise)... and a lot of the probably still stems from previous ownership.



Quote:
But going back to that era, I dont know what to believe. I know there was a report Drury had a contract but the Sabres waited. I know there was a report that the Sabres had no contact with Briere his final year, and then tried to sign him after Drury said no.

I know Regier likes to wait. Every national reporter says Regier likes to wait.

Is it fair to believe Regier is the one who waited on the Drury contract? Sure it is. Is it fair to believe Regier let a whole year go by without talking to Brier's agent? Sure it is.
No... the policy was set above him

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I remember the exact reason given for waiting on Drury, they didnt want Briere to get upset, which would hurt the locker room. I seem to remember Regier talking about preventing jealousies in the locker room.
That was the excuse the pedaled to the masses AFTER the fact. The real reason is that ownership had a "no in season contract negotiations" rule.

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I cant eliminate Regier from that mess like some fans can. But honestly, its not why i am so upset with Regier right now. I am upset with Regier because somehow he gets the chance to rebuild with a great owner like Pegula but Lindy Ruff didnt. Lindy Ruff had the hardest job under past owners, and he somehow took teams that were not predicated to do well pretty far. I felt both GM and coach should have been gone or both stay. OR, fire Ruff and let a new coach try and get the most out of Regier's core he kept for so long. Not fire Ruff, get rid of the previous core and start over with Regier running the show.
and there it is...

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08-02-2013, 10:06 AM
  #171
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Pegula wanted to win a cup in 3 years... You really fail to see the impact of ownership in the direction of a franchise

that hot run to the playoffs when Pegula bought the team, definitely set them back a few years. there is no doubt that it built false hope. the new owner wanted to throw money around... he felt money could solve the problem.

they also underestimated the desire of players to come to buffalo (Richards, Doan, Parise)... and a lot of the probably still stems from previous ownership.





No... the policy was set above him



That was the excuse the pedaled to the masses AFTER the fact. The real reason is that ownership had a "no in season contract negotiations" rule.



and there it is...
You really blame ownership for everything dont you? I always remember that same policy, even before Golisano.

As for Ruff, yes its always been been a problem. I dont like the whole start over with Regier approach. Who actually thought that was an option entering last season? That they would fire Ruff, trade away the core, and let Regier rebuild a new team?

I would have called you crazy if that was your plan. I dont like Regier. I am not hiding it. I said I have an agenda, not ashamed of it. Regier doesnt deserve the job security he has. If Ruff went, Regier was supposed to go as well.

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08-02-2013, 10:15 AM
  #172
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Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
You really blame ownership for everything dont you?
You do realize that if you really do believe in blaming everything on the guy that's in charge (or to quote you here "I blame the guy I feel is in charge.") then ownership is always to blame because ownership is in charge. That's literally how things work.

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08-02-2013, 10:36 AM
  #173
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Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
You really blame ownership for everything dont you? I always remember that same policy, even before Golisano.
When ownership sets a policy, and that policy rips apart a contender... yes, I absolutely blame ownership.

I definitely don't blame the guy who in 5 years drafted and traded for the pieces that put a contender on the ice

99 : Draft Miller
00 : Draft Goose, Trade for Dumont
01 : Draft Roy, Poms, Trade for Connolly, Pyatt
02 : Trade for Hecht, Mair
03 : Draft Vanek, Trade for Briere, Drury
04 : Trade for Grier, Lydman
05 : Contender


Quote:
As for Ruff, yes its always been been a problem. I dont like the whole start over with Regier approach. Who actually thought that was an option entering last season? That they would fire Ruff, trade away the core, and let Regier rebuild a new team?
Me... it's the path I'd been preaching since 09

Regier was kept because he's gotten the job done before (see above), and now has more resources to do it.

Ruff was not kept, because he lost the room, and is not the type of coach for a rebuild (see Biron years).

Quote:
I would have called you crazy if that was your plan. I dont like Regier. I am not hiding it. I said I have an agenda, not ashamed of it. Regier doesnt deserve the job security he has. If Ruff went, Regier was supposed to go as well.
guess I'm not the crazy one....
check the mirror

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08-02-2013, 11:41 AM
  #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
When ownership sets a policy, and that policy rips apart a contender... yes, I absolutely blame ownership.

I definitely don't blame the guy who in 5 years drafted and traded for the pieces that put a contender on the ice

99 : Draft Miller
00 : Draft Goose, Trade for Dumont
01 : Draft Roy, Poms, Trade for Connolly, Pyatt
02 : Trade for Hecht, Mair
03 : Draft Vanek, Trade for Briere, Drury
04 : Trade for Grier, Lydman
05 : Contender




Me... it's the path I'd been preaching since 09

Regier was kept because he's gotten the job done before (see above), and now has more resources to do it.

Ruff was not kept, because he lost the room, and is not the type of coach for a rebuild (see Biron years).



guess I'm not the crazy one....
check the mirror
What I love about this is you know for a fact that Regier built those teams, but you also know for a fact that his hands were tied by ownership. How does that even work?

I will say this Larry Quinn has been said to be responsible for the Drury trade, so that may support meddling upper management, but would make Regier's legacy worse. I have left that out because I feel Regier was responsible for that trade, although Paul Hamilton said Larry Quinn pushed it through.


Last edited by SabresAreScaryGood: 08-02-2013 at 11:48 AM.
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08-02-2013, 11:45 AM
  #175
Jame
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Originally Posted by SabresAreScaryGood View Post
What I love about this is you know for a fact that Regier built those teams, but you also know for a fact that his hands were tied by ownership. How does that even work?
Yes, those are both facts. You're starting to get it

Quote:
And There is a Paul hamilton story about the Drury trade, that Quinn actually gave Regier a push to make it happen.
im sure you gobbled it up

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