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Who is the Rangers #1D?

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Old
08-02-2013, 02:33 AM
  #26
BlueshirtBlitz
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Glad to see not everybody on this board is on the crucify MDZ wagon.

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08-02-2013, 02:49 AM
  #27
donpaulo
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I honestly don't care who is first

NY is lucky enough to have 3 very solid defensemen and Henke is cover up for any mistakes

Its a great situation

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08-02-2013, 03:21 AM
  #28
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IMO, when Staal is healthy he's our best pure defense only defenseman.. It's no coincidence that the Rangers started to allow more goals when Staal went down. Mcdonagh is our best OVERALL defenseman (defense + offense) Imo, but on a purely defensive standard, it has been and still is Staal. I have no doubt that Mcdonagh will take that in the coming years though.

I look at it like this.

Staal - #1
Mcdonagh #1A

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08-02-2013, 06:32 AM
  #29
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For all the talk about DZ's low shooting percentage this year - he had one of the highest in the league for defensemen the year before.

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08-02-2013, 06:46 AM
  #30
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Argue/bicker all you want about who our #1 is but this is a great problem to have. Solid defense with one of the best goalies to back us up during those oops moments.

I can relate to the article but I do think they under estimated Staal's skating. He skates very well for being 6'4" tall.

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08-02-2013, 06:48 AM
  #31
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Staal, McDonagh, Girardi, Del Zotto, Stralman, Moore

Very nice.

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08-02-2013, 07:05 AM
  #32
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Keeping in mind that when we talk about Del Zotto we're talking about a 23 year old. For whatever reason his game stalled last year. MDZ is just not in the same universe defensively as Girardi, Staal, McDonagh. His creative instincts is where he stands out but he's had one 40 point season and when you consider that the other 3 are pretty much 30 points guys and that in the future McDonagh is a player who could easily match what Del Zotto's doing now--Michael really needs to step up his offensive game and become much more of a factor. The player I'd like to compare MDZ to is Subban. If he could be the Rangers Subban we'd really have something and Subban is still a pretty young guy too. Right now he's falling quite a bit short of Subban.

Way back when DZ came in as a 19 year old and took the job away from right under Sanguinetti's nose--he looked very much like he could be a star. He seemed much more comfortable running the pwp then than he does now. A change of coach may help but if he doesn't become more of a factor on offense--more like Subban--then a change of scenery might be the best thing of all for him as a player.

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08-02-2013, 07:09 AM
  #33
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Anyway in terms of ability:

1. McDonagh
2. Staal
3. Girardi
4. Del Zotto
5. Stralman
6. Moore

In terms of value--Girardi moves up--good right defensemen are so hard to find. If the Rangers move anyone to me the likelihood would be Staal or DZ just because Moore can move in and fill the gap without much of a hitch. Losing Girardi would put a big hole on the right side. I don't think Stralman is capable of taking those kinds of minutes for any length of time and other than McIlrath there's nobody to fill the hole on our right side. I mean Bickel?

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08-02-2013, 07:20 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Anyway in terms of ability:

1. McDonagh
2. Staal
3. Girardi
4. Del Zotto
5. Stralman
6. Moore

In terms of value--Girardi moves up--good right defensemen are so hard to find. If the Rangers move anyone to me the likelihood would be Staal or DZ just because Moore can move in and fill the gap without much of a hitch. Losing Girardi would put a big hole on the right side. I don't think Stralman is capable of taking those kinds of minutes for any length of time and other than McIlrath there's nobody to fill the hole on our right side. I mean Bickel?
I believe you're selling Moore way short on a small sample. He has McDonagh's skating, Staal's size and temperament, and a better shot than DZ. Give this kid a year, or two, and we'll be talking about our 4 # 1's. IMO.

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08-02-2013, 07:26 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoosierDaddy View Post
I believe you're selling Moore way short on a small sample. He has McDonagh's skating, Staal's size and temperament, and a better shot than DZ. Give this kid a year, or two, and we'll be talking about our 4 # 1's. IMO.
I like Moore.

May not be a top pairing guy, but he will be a 2nd pairing defenceman shortly.

Kid has a really nice blend of size, talent and ability.

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08-02-2013, 07:33 AM
  #36
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I feel Moore will be talked about as a top pair caliber defenseman within two years. He will be 22 at the start of the season, 23 in November.

For what ever reason he wasn't given a legitimate chance Columbus, too bad for them, he is a gem.

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08-02-2013, 07:55 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoosierDaddy View Post
I believe you're selling Moore way short on a small sample. He has McDonagh's skating, Staal's size and temperament, and a better shot than DZ. Give this kid a year, or two, and we'll be talking about our 4 # 1's. IMO.

And Girardi will be 2 years older and may not be a #1 by that stage.

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08-02-2013, 08:12 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoosierDaddy View Post
I believe you're selling Moore way short on a small sample. He has McDonagh's skating, Staal's size and temperament, and a better shot than DZ. Give this kid a year, or two, and we'll be talking about our 4 # 1's. IMO.
I don't think I'm selling him short. I think it's more the sample size we've seen so far is not very broad. I have a lot of hopes that Moore is going to be a really good one--and I'm not a huge fan of MDZ at the moment. IMO--he's got to pick up his game--particularly the offensive part of it. 40 point seasons from him are not going to continue to cut it. He needs to take a step forward because for one thing his defense is not on a par with our other defensemen.

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08-02-2013, 08:13 AM
  #39
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I agree. I would say Staal is our #1 and McDonagh is #1A. Though if AV gives Mac some PP time this year then he might become take over as #1.

Regarding Girardi - I know he's valued around the league but, given he's a UFA after this year, do you think there's any chance he get's traded at the deadline?

Say the rangers are amongst the top 3-4 teams in the division but, are still struggling offensively and McIlrath has progressed so that he can fill in on the bottom pair decently - would it make sense to trade Girardi?

I understand he's a warrior, an alternate captain, and if we are serious about the playoffs we need him but, is it farfetched to to think he could be packaged with one of our surplus of wingers for a solid 1st/2nd line winger.

I love Girardi too but, he's I don't think he would age well on his next contract and it may benefit Rangers to trade him while his value is high. Thoughts?

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08-02-2013, 08:22 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darko View Post
And Girardi will be 2 years older and may not be a #1 by that stage.
Girardi regularly plays 25 to 30 minutes a game. Rangers may lose Girardi after this season to UFA but they have no one in the organization that can take those right side minutes--including Stralman (who will also be a UFA after this season) who I like very much. Next in line is McIlrath. Unrealistic to think that Del Zotto with his average left side defense is going to move over and plug the right side hole. Del Zotto has all he can handle with his 20 minutes a night on the left side.

Good right side defensemen are very hard to find. Rangers should try their hardest to hold on to Girardi.

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08-02-2013, 08:49 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by aufheben View Post
My point was that he doesn't have all the tools right now to be a PPQB. I am far from the only one that holds this opinion, (and it being a popular opinion doesn't make it wrong).

Stats don't lie, but they are easily misconstrued. How can you rate hockey IQ based on facts? You can't base your opinion solely on stats either, because they don't tell the whole story. It's not your stats I refuse, it's your way of using them.
I agree with you on MDZ.

I am hoping, but not confident that his game improves under a different coaching style. I think MDZ's best trait was always getting the puck to Gaborik going up ice and into the neutral zone.

From the eye test, I don't see a top notch power play QB. I see someone who can get the puck from his own blue line to the other, make a pass to someone who can do something with the puck from there. Last year and somewhat in years past instead of skating the puck from one line to the other, he has been trying to make these long stretch passes. Whether or not that was by design of coaching or not is debatable, but I certainly don't see that as his strength.

There are games where he looks decisive in a good way, looks like he is going to take charge of the puck. Then there are other games where he makes poor reads with and without the puck. Missing the net, regardless of the stats, going by the eye, I have seen him miss the net on wide open shots more than most players would. The toughest part about that is he misses in such a way the puck goes right out of the zone and it not only usually traps him, but also the other players on the ice who are driving to the net looking for a rebound that does not come because he missed the net.

As far as stats, look at his total power play time per year over the years, look where that ranks in the NHL as a whole. He is right up there amongst the top of the league in total power play time and his ranking in terms of points on the power play do not reflect how much time he has received. MDZ had two more points than McD and McD had almost no power play time while MDZ had the most of any defense.

Who is the Rangers #1, I think it's better to break them down to sides. Girardi and Stralman are the top RDs. McD and a healthy Staal are the top LD.

Ranking them position withstanding, McD if he continues like he has wins. Staal is a close 2nd when healthy. Girardi a close third. Stralman and Del Zotto a step or two below. Moore he is almost as much of a prospect as Miller and Kreider, yet I liked what I saw for the most part.

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08-02-2013, 09:12 AM
  #42
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MacTruck and until Staal is proven healthy it's not even close.

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08-02-2013, 09:24 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
And my argument still stands, looking at these shooting %
Harmonic at 3.6%
Gonchar at 3.5%
Duncan Keith at 3.3%
OEL at 3.0%

The boards rave about OEL, I never read you or anybody else complain about his shooting percentage.

DZ has produced 37+ points in 3 out of his 4 years in the league, yet doesn't get the respect he deserves because some on this board decided he is the whipping boy in vogue, and keep repeating the non sense of "he misses the net and has no hockey IQ" based on no facts whatsoever.

IMO it says a lot more about them than about DZ.

Edit: Interestingly enough, We are discussing Girardi, Staal and McDonagh, but you found a way to sneak your meme about DZ in here.
I'm a big fan of your posts in this thread...

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08-02-2013, 09:40 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by puckrush View Post
I feel Moore will be talked about as a top pair caliber defenseman within two years. He will be 22 at the start of the season, 23 in November.

For what ever reason he wasn't given a legitimate chance Columbus, too bad for them, he is a gem.
He was given many chances. Seven other defensemen outperformed him

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08-02-2013, 10:30 AM
  #45
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MDZ just turned 23. Up to this point, he has 110 points in 250 games (24g 86a) and a career 7.2 shooting percentage.

The top 5 scoring dmen last year at the same age:

Letang: 79 points (21g 58a) in 217 games and a 5.4 shooting percentage
Subban: 76 points (21g 55a) in 160 games and a 5.2 shooting percentage
Suter: 71 points (16g 55a) in 229 games and a 5.2 shooting percentage
Yandle: 44 points (9g 35a) in 119 games and a 4.5 shooting percentage
Markov: 23 points (6g 17a) in 63 games and a 7.4 shooting percentage

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08-02-2013, 10:47 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puckrush View Post
I feel Moore will be talked about as a top pair caliber defenseman within two years. He will be 22 at the start of the season, 23 in November.

For what ever reason he wasn't given a legitimate chance Columbus, too bad for them, he is a gem.
He was given chances in Columbus, he just didn't seize them like he did here in NY. Getting out of that organization might have been the lift he needed, but we'll see. Columbus has plenty of depth and talent on the blue line, so unless Moore turns into a 50 point per year Ryan McDonagh, I doubt they'll be all that upset about losing him.

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08-02-2013, 10:49 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
It's your right to dispute how i use stats, but i at least use them. It seems to me, you base your opinion on DZ on no stats at all, but based on what is popular on these boards.


You are welcome.



Girardi is the only 1 of the 3 who can play the top pairing RD, either Staal or McDnagh can play the LD. That makes him more valuable, eventhough they are better Dmen than he is.
Girardi is the only righty shot of the three. But there's no evidence that Mac and Marc cannot play the right side.

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08-02-2013, 10:50 AM
  #48
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Would be hard pressed to say anyone other than McDonagh is our "#1" guy at this point. I think Staal was ahead for a long time, but the injuries have allowed McD to overtake him.

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08-02-2013, 10:57 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by candyman82 View Post
He was given many chances. Seven other defensemen outperformed him
How many chances could a 22 year old get? On the other hand if it's actually true, and he was getting a lot of chances at an early age then you should ask if he was developed properly. All this drama on this board around DZ is in no small part due to the fact (IMHO) that he was rushed in his development with not enough time before NHL to round up his game. And I'm quite happy with what Del Zotto contributes to the Rangers at this stage of his career.

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08-02-2013, 11:03 AM
  #50
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We talked about this, though.

MDZ has points because he has received an unprecedented amount of first team PP minutes in his career.

McDonaghis clearly the best Ranegrs defenseman,but Girardi is the most important because we have two first pairing guys who can play the left, and only one who can play the right. MDZ and Stralman are both 2nd pairing quality.

I think Moore is already a better all-around defenseman than Del Zotto is. And I think he will continue to get better.

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