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What if Mario had missed?

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10-31-2006, 08:07 AM
  #251
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Originally Posted by Boucicaut View Post
You've got World Cup way too high. It's not a fair tournament with pretty much everything geared towards helping the home team.

The name World Cup is a joke. To be worthy of such a name, the competition should be arranged in a rotating fashion, each time in a different country. I dont' see that happening though and, therefore, the thing should be named Canada Cup as it used to be.
I've got to disagree with this.The games were played on the ice surface all the players play with and used refs all the players play under.You can make a case that the tornament should be rotated and i would agree with this as to make it a true world cup everyone can enjoy in their back-yard the tournament should be moved around.

But the game being played is the same alll players play on a nightly basis year in and year out in the nhl under the same rules and refs,if they did'nt you would have a better point in saying the world cup is a joke.Let's face it,it's 5 times the tournament the World championships are but i don't see Euro fans calling that tournament a joke.If the world cup was such a joke and Euro teams are at such a disadvantage then why was Finland in the final game and with a bounce here or there could have won the whole thing?.If Finland had won i don't think you would be here calling it a joke Boucciat.

I just think it's something fans from Europe can use to soothe their feelings when they don't come out on top.Have them come out on the better side of a close 3-2 game and it's a wonderful tournament that has ten times more legitimacy then the world championships (and olympics in a year a North American team wins)

I don't buy the joke thing.

But i also don't think any European fans are going to change their stance on this.................until they win it.Once that happens there will be a drastic reversal on fans opinions from there concerning it.

I'll be watching for the official change in attitude (a European team will definately win it in the coming years)

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10-31-2006, 09:25 AM
  #252
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Originally Posted by cyclops View Post
I've got to disagree with this.The games were played on the ice surface all the players play with and used refs all the players play under.You can make a case that the tornament should be rotated and i would agree with this as to make it a true world cup everyone can enjoy in their back-yard the tournament should be moved around.

But the game being played is the same alll players play on a nightly basis year in and year out in the nhl under the same rules and refs,if they did'nt you would have a better point in saying the world cup is a joke.Let's face it,it's 5 times the tournament the World championships are but i don't see Euro fans calling that tournament a joke.If the world cup was such a joke and Euro teams are at such a disadvantage then why was Finland in the final game and with a bounce here or there could have won the whole thing?.If Finland had won i don't think you would be here calling it a joke Boucciat.

I just think it's something fans from Europe can use to soothe their feelings when they don't come out on top.Have them come out on the better side of a close 3-2 game and it's a wonderful tournament that has ten times more legitimacy then the world championships (and olympics in a year a North American team wins)

I don't buy the joke thing.

But i also don't think any European fans are going to change their stance on this.................until they win it.Once that happens there will be a drastic reversal on fans opinions from there concerning it.

I'll be watching for the official change in attitude (a European team will definately win it in the coming years)
Well I just can't see the logic in the name when there's no rotation in the arranging countries. Hence: the name seems like a joke to me, even if the tourney is not.

Speaking of which, I didn't claim that the tourney should be ranked below World Championships in terms of prestige or legitimacy, hell no! It's clearly a higher ranking event than the World Championships but it shouldn't be ranked close to the Olympics. It was/is too much geared towards team Canada's success and to a lesser degree, US success. Home crowd and no travel are big advantages. The refs aren't as big a problem but it'd still be better to have refs from other countries too (altough there might be other problems there with differing styles etc.). And I agree about rink size and NHL rules being ok for everybody (except maybe Germany with it's relatively few NHL players).

The fact that Finland and Czech Republic got that far and were just a few bounces away from better results is of course nice and all but this doesn't change the fact that the tourney format is still flawed. Neither would a win by those teams.

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10-31-2006, 09:56 AM
  #253
Paxton Fettel
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cyclops is a living joke. and it's old.

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10-31-2006, 10:07 AM
  #254
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Originally Posted by Paxton Fettel View Post
cyclops is a living joke. and it's old.
I don't agree with him about everything but he is nevertheless a pretty knowledgable guy when it comes to hockey and has also watched a lot of hockey during a long time span. Definitely not a joke.

He does get pretty easily riled up by some Russian posters (some of whom are significantly less knowledgable in hockey matters). Lately also by some Swedish posters

I guess he's the grumpy Canuck granddad around these parts

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10-31-2006, 10:54 AM
  #255
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Originally Posted by Boucicaut View Post
Well I just can't see the logic in the name when there's no rotation in the arranging countries. Hence: the name seems like a joke to me, even if the tourney is not.

Speaking of which, I didn't claim that the tourney should be ranked below World Championships in terms of prestige or legitimacy, hell no! It's clearly a higher ranking event than the World Championships but it shouldn't be ranked close to the Olympics. It was/is too much geared towards team Canada's success and to a lesser degree, US success. Home crowd and no travel are big advantages. The refs aren't as big a problem but it'd still be better to have refs from other countries too (altough there might be other problems there with differing styles etc.). And I agree about rink size and NHL rules being ok for everybody (except maybe Germany with it's relatively few NHL players).

The fact that Finland and Czech Republic got that far and were just a few bounces away from better results is of course nice and all but this doesn't change the fact that the tourney format is still flawed. Neither would a win by those teams.
So what would you like to see for a continued world cup in the future? I'd like to see the tournament always rotated,still game called by NHL refs (i think they're easily the most skilled at their job) and the rinks all nhl size no matter what country it's held (due to the fact nearly 100% of the players involved play on nhl rinks now) have it in the offseason every 4 years with all games in one country or 2 if the countries are close to each other (Sweden and Finland could host games much like U.S and Canada do)

this will have to be considered for a revamped world cup because the olympics and nhl players participation in them is coming to an end and we're all going to want to see a top level international tournament continued.

This is my call anyway.

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10-31-2006, 01:09 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by cyclops View Post
So what would you like to see for a continued world cup in the future? I'd like to see the tournament always rotated,still game called by NHL refs (i think they're easily the most skilled at their job) and the rinks all nhl size no matter what country it's held (due to the fact nearly 100% of the players involved play on nhl rinks now) have it in the offseason every 4 years with all games in one country or 2 if the countries are close to each other (Sweden and Finland could host games much like U.S and Canada do)

this will have to be considered for a revamped world cup because the olympics and nhl players participation in them is coming to an end and we're all going to want to see a top level international tournament continued.

This is my call anyway.
I could live with your proposal very easily. That would not be a flawed concept. Lets hope that something like this eventually comes out of the World/Canada Cup, especially if NHL-players don't get to participate the Olympics for some reason (though what a damn shame that would be!).

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10-31-2006, 01:24 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by Boucicaut View Post
I could live with your proposal very easily. That would not be a flawed concept. Lets hope that something like this eventually comes out of the World/Canada Cup, especially if NHL-players don't get to participate the Olympics for some reason (though what a damn shame that would be!).
Things may change but everything i'm hearing over here says that nhl player participation will end in 2010 in Vancouver.The owners and players are'nt happy with the amount of games they squeeze in in so few days in what is the middle of the NHL season.Unless all parties can come up with something that works in giving the players a break and protecting the teams assets It looks like 2010 is the end (they are contractually obliged to play in the olympics until then)

A revamped World Cup is looking like a necessity.

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10-31-2006, 04:11 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by Paxton Fettel View Post
cyclops is a living joke. and it's old.
Great point. Excellent supporting arguments. I especially love all the facts you bring in support.

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10-31-2006, 04:17 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by Paxton Fettel View Post
cyclops is a living joke. and it's old.
Pot calling Kettle black alert

Paxton Fettel ---> <---Cyclops

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Old
10-31-2006, 06:02 PM
  #260
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Blaming no, just saying that without the NHL's best as well as the European league's best, then it isn't really a top tier tournament. No fault, simple fact.
European league's best? Again, don't dismiss it just because Canada did not have its best most of the time.



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When reading your and your soulmates posts here, theres little doubt left whats idiotic and whats not.
Look who is talking. Who posted that picture of the Chernobyl reactor in this thread?


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Im aware of that. But the point still remains that world championships are b-tournament where b-teams compete in front of drunken hockey tourists. Just last year over 10 swedish players declined to play even though its usually considered to be an honour to wear the tre kronor jersey. Plenty of Finns declined as well. If it was something every player allways dreamed of, Im sure no one would decline.
Another idiotic post, don't compare now to before.

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10-31-2006, 06:11 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by YMB29 View Post
European league's best? Again, don't dismiss it just because Canada did not have its best most of the time.
What I meant by European leagues best is that if it didn't have Europe's best, it wouldn't be A list. There are seven countries with a chance at winning, Canada, Russia, USA, Sweden, Finland, Czech Republic and Slovakia. If any of these countries are handicapped in a way greater than the remaining teams, the tournament is simply not at A list affair.

In the cold war era, Canada, Russia, Czechslovakia, Sweden, Finland and USA all had a chance, granted, back then, USA and Finland it was slim, but still. So, if any of those countries are handicapped in relation to the other countries, then, it is not an A list tournament. Canada and the US were unduely handicapped. Therefore, the World Championships were not an A list tournament.

I would say the exact same thing if top Russian players were barred from playing and Canada's weren't.

A true A list tournment has all countries having an equal chance.

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11-03-2006, 02:18 AM
  #262
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And you can't say that about the Canada Cup.

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11-03-2006, 03:24 AM
  #263
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Originally Posted by YMB29 View Post
And you can't say that about the Canada Cup.
I'm not sure what you're talking about.

I've always stated that Summit Series, and the 98-06 Olympics are the only true best on best series.

Canada Cup IMO is a fun exabition, like an international all-star game in tournament form.

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11-03-2006, 10:55 PM
  #264
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What if Mario had missed?

He didn't, so who cares?

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11-04-2006, 04:23 AM
  #265
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Originally Posted by V-2 Schneider View Post
What if Mario had missed?

He didn't, so who cares?
If that's all you have to add, then just avoid the history section.

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11-04-2006, 03:03 PM
  #266
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Canada Cup IMO is a fun exabition, like an international all-star game in tournament form.
Well at least you admit that.

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