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Do Habs fans think that Bergevin is going to ice this roster ?

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Old
08-02-2013, 04:13 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Boris Le Tigre View Post
There are usually some transactions as teams complete their training camps around the first of October...

Rookies push veterans out and some prospects fail to meet expectations. The GMs have a better sense of their rosters then.
It reminds me the Ribeiro trade (for Niinima)

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08-02-2013, 04:15 PM
  #77
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look at parros fight card last year and then look at Hendricks. One of these things is not like the other.

Are you against giving prust 10 million ? Are you the one fan who does not recognize what prust brings to the team ? Hendricks is not some super heavy, whoever says that is likely confusing him with somebody else. Hendricks, although not as good overall as prust, it a HELL of a lot closer to Prust than he is to Parros and he's cheaper than Prust. this isnt the answer to all of out problems but it is certainly going in the right direction as opposed to backsliding towards being softer.

Hendricks plays about 12 min a game, very comparable to prust who is around 13 and both are about twice stashy at around 6 min.
If we need a heavy, there is not doubt its parros but the team next year sans briere but with parros and hendricks is a hell of a lot tougher than shrimpy and parros.
When I said super heavy I was being sarcastic. I figured you'd catch on. He's just a 4th line energy player, moen esque.

Who said I was against Prust. I just feel with prust, white, parros, moen, etc... we should focus on top 9 guys who are physical not bottom 3 guys. Someone like morrow catches my attention 100X more than Hendricks.

Hendricks isn't a bad player by any means but he's not better than prust. Moen is less physical maybe but better hockey player and he's not a center so white maintains the C spot. It's that simple.

Habs need a Clarkson, morrow, etc... Not a Hendricks.

Briere is what he is but I'd rather sign briere than a 13th forward for us. At worse, briere can move out of the lineup and be benched but Hendricks will never ever be a top 6 player ever. There's a difference.

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08-02-2013, 04:20 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Ya we need to get bigger and tougher, but signing a bunch of bottom players will make your team worst, not better.
Hendricks will do what here exactly? Take over Briere's top 6-9 spot? Take over Gionta? You want to throw away top 9 scoring depth for someone that never once scored 10 goals in his career??
If you're talking about Hendricks taking over Moen, then hey, I'm all for it. But you're not here. You keep yapping away about how we need to get bigger and tougher with total disregard to what actually matters the most, getting BETTER.
Hendricks will do jack crap to help DD, or Plekanec. He will not be on their wing, and if he would be, then things are likely to be going very bad.

The targets were guys like Clarkson and Clowe. Bigger guys that can hit, fight and provide depth scoring. The problem is their price tag was incredibly high, ridiculously so. But you're not talking about them, you're talking about a 4th liner. We now have Prust, Moen, White and Parros for that line, that's enough.
We dont need more scoring, we were fourth in the league last year. Scoring is not out achilles heel, being able to bang and defense are. Again the prust signing, good or not ? Prust can play third line minutes, and I suspect that in nashville Henricks will be between 12-14 minutes a game.

This notion that since we cant get scorers who fight because of cost that its better to get one dimensional softies like Briere as opposed to less talented guys who WILL stand up for teamates is exactly what got us into this mess. Watch, one of our tough guys gets hurt next year and the habs are going to get ragdolled in the atlantic, and then next year you can sing the same refrain " I'm sure we are going to get bigger next year".

I'm not saying that Hendricks has some unique set of skills that a lot of people dont. but he would add size and was availble to meet a persistent need and we would not have had to give up anything for him and his cost is less than briere for twice the term.

this isnt bizzarro world, you dont get bigger and tougher by signing declinining marshmallow soft midgets at the tail end of their careers.

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08-02-2013, 04:33 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
When I said super heavy I was being sarcastic. I figured you'd catch on. He's just a 4th line energy player, moen esque.

Who said I was against Prust. I just feel with prust, white, parros, moen, etc... we should focus on top 9 guys who are physical not bottom 3 guys. Someone like morrow catches my attention 100X more than Hendricks.

Hendricks isn't a bad player by any means but he's not better than prust. Moen is less physical maybe but better hockey player and he's not a center so white maintains the C spot. It's that simple.

Habs need a Clarkson, morrow, etc... Not a Hendricks.

Briere is what he is but I'd rather sign briere than a 13th forward for us. At worse, briere can move out of the lineup and be benched but Hendricks will never ever be a top 6 player ever. There's a difference.
1) I never said hendricks was better than prust, i said the exact opposite. And if moen wont fight ( he wont) Hendricks >>>>>>Moen
2) if you want guys with jam in the top 9, how the hell does shrimpy briere fit into this need ?
3) I think the ship on Morrow has sailed, I'd be okay with him but only if he takes a short term deal. He's not going to get any younger.
4) Morrow and clarkson are not comparable at this point in their careers, and I would not take on clarksons contract the way it is now. I we kicked the tires, fine but I'm GLAD we are not saddled with that contract. if we cant sign guys like that the answer is not to sign guys we dont need like shrimpy.
5) there is no way shrimpy is in the press box as a 13th forward. 8 million for a guy to play sparingly makes the deal even worse.
6) I dont think Hendricks is going to channel his inner gordie howe any time soon. I understand what he brings to a team. It just so happens that what he brings is something the habs have lacked for quite some time and additionally its something that neither Parros nor Briere can contribute.

Watch, next year we are going to play a team in the regular season and they are going to run us out of the rink and then people will feign some sort of eureka moment and realize that we are too small and have been for some time. If we have to go out and get a grit guy in the regular season, its going to cost us an asset I dont want to give away or its going to be a much bigger overpayment.

If you are the leafs or the bruins and you see our top 9, why wouldnt they run us at every chance ?

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08-02-2013, 04:49 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
We dont need more scoring, we were fourth in the league last year. Scoring is not out achilles heel, being able to bang and defense are. Again the prust signing, good or not ? Prust can play third line minutes, and I suspect that in nashville Henricks will be between 12-14 minutes a game.

This notion that since we cant get scorers who fight because of cost that its better to get one dimensional softies like Briere as opposed to less talented guys who WILL stand up for teamates is exactly what got us into this mess. Watch, one of our tough guys gets hurt next year and the habs are going to get ragdolled in the atlantic, and then next year you can sing the same refrain " I'm sure we are going to get bigger next year".

I'm not saying that Hendricks has some unique set of skills that a lot of people dont. but he would add size and was availble to meet a persistent need and we would not have had to give up anything for him and his cost is less than briere for twice the term.

this isnt bizzarro world, you dont get bigger and tougher by signing declinining marshmallow soft midgets at the tail end of their careers.
I don't know where to start really..

1- Yes, I was all for the Prust signing. Felt the contract was a bit much, but so much is expected via UFA. All in all, was satisfied.

2- We did fine in scoring last year over a shortened season that took a bad spill in the end. We also had trouble scoring in the POs, which is was Briere provides, a PO performer. Not to mention we lost Ryder, so Briere replaces that scoring presence.

3- Nashville can sign whoever they want and play them to whatever minutes, it means absolutely nothing to Mtl. If Hendricks plays 14min, they'll be at the bottom of the NHL.

4- Defense was our main issue. I said multiple times I rather Bergevin had invested in a Dman than Briere. Hendricks is not a Dman and we don't need another 4th liner.

5- Being able to bang is never a major a flaw. Not scoring in the POs is, and the reason that didn't happen wasn't because we didn't have a guy like Matt freaking Hendricks.

6- I never whined about getting ''ragdolled'' nor did I say we were going to be bigger next year by adding a bunch of crap bottom players. We need to get size on the top lines, not the bottom one. Hendricks addresses 0 need. Moen, White and Prust are already there. We even have Parros in case we need bigger support. Right now, if lines remain the same as last year, our 3rd line consists of Gal-Eller-Gal. I have absolutely no interest in seeing Gallagher or Galchenyuk removed from those lines in order to make room for Hendricks. Matter of fact, I would not remove anybody from our top 9 for Hendricks. That would be moronic.

7- Again, Hendricks didn't fill a need. You don't just throw in anybody that is bigger than our guys and say ''hey, he's bigger, he'll address our size issue''. Hendricks is a bottom liner. We do not need more of those type of players.

8- You're right, you don't get bigger and tougher by signing small old po proven guys. I don't think anybody believed we would get bigger and tougher with Briere. But you also don't get better, at all, by signing Hendricks and having less scoring depth.

9- Briere is signed for 2 years, let's not cry over it.

10- I can't believe I have to defend the Briere signing here..I didn't like the signing, but man, Matt Hendricks, seriously...Let's not freaking exaggerate.

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Old
08-02-2013, 05:08 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
1) I never said hendricks was better than prust, i said the exact opposite. And if moen wont fight ( he wont) Hendricks >>>>>>Moen
2) if you want guys with jam in the top 9, how the hell does shrimpy briere fit into this need ?
3) I think the ship on Morrow has sailed, I'd be okay with him but only if he takes a short term deal. He's not going to get any younger.
4) Morrow and clarkson are not comparable at this point in their careers, and I would not take on clarksons contract the way it is now. I we kicked the tires, fine but I'm GLAD we are not saddled with that contract. if we cant sign guys like that the answer is not to sign guys we dont need like shrimpy.
5) there is no way shrimpy is in the press box as a 13th forward. 8 million for a guy to play sparingly makes the deal even worse.
6) I dont think Hendricks is going to channel his inner gordie howe any time soon. I understand what he brings to a team. It just so happens that what he brings is something the habs have lacked for quite some time and additionally its something that neither Parros nor Briere can contribute.

Watch, next year we are going to play a team in the regular season and they are going to run us out of the rink and then people will feign some sort of eureka moment and realize that we are too small and have been for some time. If we have to go out and get a grit guy in the regular season, its going to cost us an asset I dont want to give away or its going to be a much bigger overpayment.

If you are the leafs or the bruins and you see our top 9, why wouldnt they run us at every chance ?
1) Fighting doesn't win games. Moen is a better HOCKEY player.
2) You want guys that help you win games. Briere helps us more than Hendricks. I would've preferred a top 9 guy with jam but I will at least give Briere a chance, that's all.
3) We agree here.
4) I don't want Clarkson's contract. That's why I said its important to draft and develop these guys ourselves or trade for one on reasonable deal.
5) Thing is, he won't be in pressbox. He's talented enough to play. It's just a point I'm making that worst case scenario we're back at the way you want(without him in line up). Best case scenario, he helps us.
6) Moen-White-Prust are better than Hendricks. At the very best case scenario for your argument, we don't sign briere and signed Hendricks instead. He'd be our 12th forward. Is it really that much to make a fuss about that he's share games with parros?

How did we finish 2nd in conference last year and get our ass handed to us all year?

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Old
08-02-2013, 05:09 PM
  #82
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I agree with this. Moves like the Gomez trade and the signings of Gionta and Cammalleri were big moves that focused on the present instead of the future. In the end they left us much worse off than we were before.

I'm glad to have a GM that's conservative and I believe that when we're actually ready to contend he won't be afraid to make big moves to put us over the top.
Chiarelli is NOT conservative and the Bruins have been to the finals twice in 3 years.

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08-02-2013, 05:18 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by zzoo View Post
It reminds me the Ribeiro trade (for Niinima)
We have lost our share of trades man...

I think we should have supreme trade karma built up from loosing. Now the universe is finally ready to reward us with a few steels.... (Thomas better turn out better than the Count of Danny Kristo)

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08-02-2013, 05:26 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by zzoo View Post
Morrow-to-Habs rumor is completely dead, or ... ?
The Morrow-to-everywhere rumours are dead. Something tells me that he has something worked out somewhere but they're waiting for something (cap space, trade...?)

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08-02-2013, 05:36 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Boris Le Tigre View Post
We have lost our share of trades man...

I think we should have supreme trade karma built up from loosing. Now the universe is finally ready to reward us with a few steels.... (Thomas better turn out better than the Count of Danny Kristo)
I haven't seen much of Tomas yet but I'm pretty confident that Kristo will be the next Hemsky. He's definitely got some serious skill.

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08-02-2013, 05:36 PM
  #86
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I have my doubts about MB. I have expressed them.

I wish he would have signed Subban to an 8 year deal last summer. I wish he wouldn't have gone after Briere. I wish he wouldn't have signed Moen long term. I wish he would have kept bridging Price.. but all in all... he did the right moves to get the team to 2nd place last season. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt moving forward and see what kind of results he gets.

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08-02-2013, 05:43 PM
  #87
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Adding morrow without moving a player is reasonable in theory...
Having the depth to roll 4 lines is a good thing, especially with our injury "luck"

Bourque- pleks- gionta
Maxpac- dd - briere
Galch- eller- Gallagher
Morrow - white - prust
Moen


But in practice, 2 big problems with it:

- egos... None of those veterans will, or should, be content as a 13th fwd. even if the stay quiet, they will be pissed

- coach bias... Galch/Gallagher don't need their leashes any shorter, nor their minutes cut back, but you can bet they, & eller, will get the shaft

I don't feel confident MT would manage these two issues effectively, very few coaches could

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Old
08-02-2013, 05:55 PM
  #88
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we overachieved.

yes, we will go in with that roster

no, i don't care and im ok with that

2 words: long term.

the end

the bottom line is when ONE ****ING defensemen goes down and your whole team goes down, your team still has massive issues from the previous year and you're still rebuilding/re-tooling.re-whateverthe**** and you have to deal with it.

the worst part is that if MB had gone out and signed clarkson or whatever, or do all the changes he would have to do to make this team more cup-ready team NOW (besides the fact that we dont have ANYTHING to give to ANYONE to get ANYTHING, but i digress), this board would be filled with little girly whines so **** off.

ask yourself this: what if we don't make the playoff this year? are the 'get contending now' team gonna stand up and get what they deserve?

two years ago: we suck trade everyone, rebuild from scratch, **** the world
this year: woo! we rule, we can finally contend, get stuff

somebody explains to me why this off-season is the worst ever on this ****ing website? heightened expectations? cocaine instead of fluoride in the water?

can we have a house rule where whenever you say: "we should have gotten bigger", you say what trade you would have done to get bigger, then we all get to comment on how retarded that proposal is. it would make this entire board more intellismart like...



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08-02-2013, 06:01 PM
  #89
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Briere on the wing isn't even effective.

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08-02-2013, 06:17 PM
  #90
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Briere on the wing isn't even effective.
It's not like DD at wing will be either.


And it's not like Briere at center is a world beater at this point anyway.

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08-02-2013, 06:26 PM
  #91
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Chiarelli is NOT conservative and the Bruins have been to the finals twice in 3 years.
What the.... They sucked for 15 years before that

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08-02-2013, 06:35 PM
  #92
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If no changes are made before the start of the season, I fear the MB will overpay (panic button) when our ***** will get kicked againts some bigger teams.
Yes we will be able to win games, but some 6-0 losses are most likely to happen again in a 82 games schedules, where we might get tired easily.

I cross my fingers he fix our defensive top 6. I hate it. Horrible. To much pylons. To much lefties. To much no. 6 defenseman. shaaaaame

But I like our offensive dept. Yes we are small, but I'd rather have a bigger defensive core instead of an offensive core, so we can use our skills and speed to win a lot of regular games (we'll see about playoffs).
Still need to get ride of a few players but I'm confident with our offensive top 12. Remember, we had the 4th better offense in the league last season. Nothing to be ashamed of... And guys like Desharnais & Gionta can only do better. I hope.

I do expect some moves. No clue when.
I just cant picture Bergevin making any panic moves.

Sadly, I can picture Bergevin not making any moves.

I hope he makes some moves before the season starts. But I will not be surprised if he does not.

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Old
08-02-2013, 06:35 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
Adding morrow without moving a player is reasonable in theory...
Having the depth to roll 4 lines is a good thing, especially with our injury "luck"

Bourque- pleks- gionta
Maxpac- dd - briere
Galch- eller- Gallagher
Morrow - white - prust
Moen


But in practice, 2 big problems with it:

- egos... None of those veterans will, or should, be content as a 13th fwd. even if the stay quiet, they will be pissed

- coach bias... Galch/Gallagher don't need their leashes any shorter, nor their minutes cut back, but you can bet they, & eller, will get the shaft

I don't feel confident MT would manage these two issues effectively, very few coaches could
Is there any team in the league that would not be salivating against going up against our second line of patches/deharnais and briere? Yikes!

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08-02-2013, 07:42 PM
  #94
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Bergevin is somewhat limited in what he can do, which is just sign short term one year contracts which usually doesn't get the best of players. He can't over commit to anything this year because he will have his hands full next year when he loses nine players and has big contracts coming up for players like Subban, Eller, Emelin wanting bigger bucks and Markov needing replacement.

He also has 23 signed players, that's the maximum roster size, so I wouldn't expect much in more signings without a trade happening.


Last edited by RealityBytes: 08-02-2013 at 09:33 PM.
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08-02-2013, 08:32 PM
  #95
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What the.... They sucked for 15 years before that
What the..... Chiarelli wasn't there 15 years ago. He is aggresive and i would love to have a GM like him.

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08-02-2013, 08:49 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by drakaar10iemechx2012 View Post
What the..... Chiarelli wasn't there 15 years ago. He is aggresive and i would love to have a GM like him.
To be fair he got Chara because they knew each other from Ottawa. The entire Bruins lineup/mentality is built from a GM move that took no skill, "aggressiveness" or effort. He knew Chara and got a Norris defenseman for free.

Not that Chiarelli isn't a good GM.

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08-02-2013, 08:58 PM
  #97
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What the.... They sucked for 15 years before that
Since 2008 the Bruins have been really impressive. They were just an average team before that, just like the Habs were too.

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Old
08-02-2013, 10:10 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Boris Le Tigre View Post
We have lost our share of trades man...

I think we should have supreme trade karma built up from loosing. Now the universe is finally ready to reward us with a few steels.... (Thomas better turn out better than the Count of Danny Kristo)
One of the reason we lose trades and have hard time getting value is because Mtl's fanbase is so bipolar.... I'd like to think it doesn't effect trades but...
Ribiero had to go, he stunk ... we only got Niimina back .... was Ribs really that bad, or were Gainey's hands tied.
We need a big name Centre... well Gainey went out and got the only one available and got fleece... took a big chance and lost.
Ryan O'Byrne isn't the second coming of Big Bird... He's brutal... why can't we get any return.
MaxLap isn't a PPG player but we still want him to play in the top 6 because he's french... instead of letting him play the roll ideally suited to him we chased him out of town.

I don't think our lineup is that bad.... I think we're one top six forward and one top four d away from contending.... not gonna happen this year anyway.... sit back and let the young guys cut their teeth this year... we should be in the zone the year after next....

REFREAKINGLAX

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08-02-2013, 10:46 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by E = CH² View Post
I have my doubts about MB. I have expressed them.

I wish he would have signed Subban to an 8 year deal last summer. I wish he wouldn't have gone after Briere. I wish he wouldn't have signed Moen long term. I wish he would have kept bridging Price.. but all in all... he did the right moves to get the team to 2nd place last season. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt moving forward and see what kind of results he gets.
Like what, signing Prust? Seriously, he hasn't done much to change the team. Gally and Chuky stepped in and MB had virtually nothing to do with it. He placed MT has head coach and honestly there wasn't too much options available, it's not like it was a huge head scratcher.

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08-02-2013, 10:49 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by habfaninvictoria View Post
One of the reason we lose trades and have hard time getting value is because Mtl's fanbase is so bipolar.... I'd like to think it doesn't effect trades but...
Ribiero had to go, he stunk ... we only got Niimina back .... was Ribs really that bad, or were Gainey's hands tied.
We need a big name Centre... well Gainey went out and got the only one available and got fleece... took a big chance and lost.
Ryan O'Byrne isn't the second coming of Big Bird... He's brutal... why can't we get any return.
MaxLap isn't a PPG player but we still want him to play in the top 6 because he's french... instead of letting him play the roll ideally suited to him we chased him out of town.

I don't think our lineup is that bad.... I think we're one top six forward and one top four d away from contending.... not gonna happen this year anyway.... sit back and let the young guys cut their teeth this year... we should be in the zone the year after next....

REFREAKINGLAX
In all reality, the fanbase has little to no effect on the roster makeup of a team.

Lapierre was not run out of town because the fanbase turned against him. No, he visualized a different role on this team and the coach did not agree with him.

O'Byrne was victimized by inept coaching, not the fans.

Fans really are irrelevant with the exception of spending money for tickets, food/beer and merchandise. Bergevin and every other GM in hockey does not give one damn regarding what "fans want" for the team.

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