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2013 Philadelphia Phillies (MLB): Charlie Manuel has been fired (Aug. 16)

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08-02-2013, 12:15 PM
  #726
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I must say, watching that entire 9th inning was probably the hardest I have ever laughed while watching a baseball game. What a sad inept bunch of players

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08-02-2013, 05:53 PM
  #727
Ilya Bryzastor
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Originally Posted by Stonehands77 View Post
90s and early 00s?!?! Try late 80s too. The Phillies have been a poorly run team my entire life outside of the late 70s/up to say 1983, then Pat Gillick's tenure (although he made some clunker decisions too, in general much better) up until Ruben Amaro got hired. So we're looking at 8-9 years of the past almost 36?

This is without getting in to the terribleness that they've been since their founding. They go through brief patches of awesome, then their cheap ass owners bring it all crashing down. Late 1890s, early 1950s, late 70s/early 80s, one year in the 1990s, then the mid 2000s. That's the entirety of good Phillies baseball. No wonder my wife always ask why I still follow them. Of course, she's a Red Sox fan...
That's the great reason of rooting for an historically bad team , they don't win often but when they do, it is a much better feeling than winning 3 championships in a row.

I'm really excited for this game not only the amazing alumni and revealing Schilling's wall of fame , but to watch Martin's first game , finally something to be excited for.


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08-02-2013, 08:20 PM
  #728
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I'm convinced that it doesn't matter how bad we are, Amaro's not going to do anything. Why am I still watching this?

Edit: I guess cause of this?



Still some joy every now and then.


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08-02-2013, 09:45 PM
  #729
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What a bull**** call.

Not that it would've mattered anyway.

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08-02-2013, 11:46 PM
  #730
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So the Phillies celebrated Brad Lidge Thursday as he retired as a Phillie and the team subsequently needed the services of a closer to do his job. Friday, the Phillies put Schilling up on their Wall of Fame and then subsequently needed the services of a good SP after the rook got shelled in the 5th.

Today, Manny Amador - coordinator of the Dominican Summer League Phillies - will be given the John Vukovich memorial award, so I guess I'll sit any Latin Phillies players on my fantasy teams. And on Sunday, Dallas Green will be signing books before the game, so I guess I'll book Charlie that night to get ejected in my ejection fantasy league.

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08-02-2013, 11:52 PM
  #731
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You can tell Utley, Manuel, and Rollins are just sick and tired of losing. Rollins and Utley arguing that call like they did, that's the most anger I've seen out of them in a long time. Granted, that was a craptastic call, but I've seen worse as sad as that is. But man, they were pissed. Chase was begging to get thrown out. We're talking about two guys that have been thrown out once each of their entire careers.

I get on Rollins, but it was nice to see he really still cares. And Utley of course, was entertaining as well. Maybe if they got mad more often this season would actually be tolerable.

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08-02-2013, 11:54 PM
  #732
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You can tell Utley, Manuel, and Rollins are just sick and tired of losing. Rollins and Utley arguing that call like they did, that's the most anger I've seen out of them in a long time. Granted, that was a craptastic call, but I've seen worse as sad as that is. But man, they were pissed. Chase was begging to get thrown out. We're talking about two guys that have been thrown out once each of their entire careers.

I get on Rollins, but it was nice to see he really still cares. And Utley of course, was entertaining as well. Maybe if they got mad more often this season would actually be tolerable.
Rollins is just mad they're not helping him get some of those records.

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08-03-2013, 05:06 AM
  #733
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Martin could be a great closer...

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08-03-2013, 10:30 AM
  #734
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Martin throws gas. He didn't look awful or out of place. Until the 5th. His pitch count was getting up and he looked gassed on some of the pitches.

I think he's going to be a good SP, I don't think they're going to have to convert him to closer.

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08-03-2013, 10:45 AM
  #735
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He's got to work on his control. If can alleviate the number of walks he has and command his fastball better he definitely can be a quality starter.

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08-03-2013, 10:55 AM
  #736
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The way he came out and was just throwing gas, was pretty impressive.

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08-03-2013, 11:47 AM
  #737
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He's got to work on his control. If can alleviate the number of walks he has and command his fastball better he definitely can be a quality starter.
That's been his kryptonite his whole career. He's had a minor league walk rate near 6. That spans nearly 600 innings, so no small sample size. To put that in perspective only two starting pitchers have walk rates over 5 this year. The thought was he was raw as a pitcher and he would eventually work through it. Hasn't happened.

Can it be corrected, yes, but you would think you'd start to see some progression by now. He showed some signs of progression last year, but regressed this year as he was promoted. Some guys it clicks (Kimbrel) and others it never does (Aumont). They'll try him as a starter for about another year I would guess (unless they get desperate for bullpen help, which is a good chance).

He's got a relievers arsenal. Hard fastball, hard breaking, and a show me curve(which will probably get scrapped if he moves to the pen). I would like to see him throw a changeup. That would help against leftys if he remains a starter. I don't know if it was just yesterday, but his velocity dropped dramatically in the 5th and that's when they jumped on him.

If they can find a way to harness his stuff, watch out, because he's been about as unhittable as you can be in the minors. Here's his batting average against since 2011 .211 (2011) .208 (2012) .224 (2013). And that includes lefties who he has struggle against due to a lack of changeup.

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08-03-2013, 03:51 PM
  #738
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Martin could be a great closer...
Hopefully there will a job opening at that position in the near future.

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08-03-2013, 07:17 PM
  #739
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Wow this team is brutal! On a brighter note though them sucking this weekend has really benefited my fantasy team.

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08-03-2013, 07:31 PM
  #740
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Wow this team is brutal! On a brighter note though them sucking this weekend has really benefited my fantasy team.
Same here. Kimbrel and Heyward.

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08-04-2013, 05:55 AM
  #741
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Wow this team is brutal! On a brighter note though them sucking this weekend has really benefited my fantasy team.
It's also been good for draft positioning. If the season ended today the Phillies would have the 10th pick (tied for 9th worst with Toronto and the MLB tie-breaker is the previous season record of which Toronto was worse). There's a few teams bunched up around them with games in hand (Mets have 2, SF has 1) and the Phillies are 1.5 games out of the 5th worst record.

Being in the bottom 10 is important because it gives a team a top-10 draft pick which if that team signs a FA tendered a qualifying offer that team would retain their top-10 pick and forfeit their 2nd round pick instead. If the Phillies finish with the 11th worst record or better they would forfeit that first round pick for signing a qulaified FA.

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08-04-2013, 06:05 AM
  #742
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Awesome that Diekman walks the bases loaded in the top of the 12th. One of them was an intentional walk but still. 23 pitches and only 8 of them for strikes.

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08-04-2013, 08:10 AM
  #743
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He's got to work on his control. If can alleviate the number of walks he has and command his fastball better he definitely can be a quality starter.
Said everyone about every Phillies minor league pitcher ever.

It's pretty much been the same refrain for all of the pitchers we've brought up to the pen, and all the guys we've had in the minors. Unfortunately Biddle is having problems with his command as well. Two of the last three three years with a BB/9 over 4. Not as bad as Martin's "never been below 4" walk rate, but still its not encouraging.

The crappy thing about martin is that it seemed like he figured it out. His BB/9 had been sitting at 6 plus for a few years, and then it dropped from 6.47 to 4.65, and then again to 4.08. I was hoping this year it would drop down to under 4, but it shot back up to over 5.

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08-04-2013, 09:14 AM
  #744
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Said everyone about every Phillies minor league pitcher ever.

It's pretty much been the same refrain for all of the pitchers we've brought up to the pen, and all the guys we've had in the minors. Unfortunately Biddle is having problems with his command as well. Two of the last three three years with a BB/9 over 4. Not as bad as Martin's "never been below 4" walk rate, but still its not encouraging.

The crappy thing about martin is that it seemed like he figured it out. His BB/9 had been sitting at 6 plus for a few years, and then it dropped from 6.47 to 4.65, and then again to 4.08. I was hoping this year it would drop down to under 4, but it shot back up to over 5.
To me this is partly an organizational problem, right? When all your young pitchers can't help but throw walks, maybe you should do something different.

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08-04-2013, 02:11 PM
  #745
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It's also been good for draft positioning. If the season ended today the Phillies would have the 10th pick (tied for 9th worst with Toronto and the MLB tie-breaker is the previous season record of which Toronto was worse). There's a few teams bunched up around them with games in hand (Mets have 2, SF has 1) and the Phillies are 1.5 games out of the 5th worst record.

Being in the bottom 10 is important because it gives a team a top-10 draft pick which if that team signs a FA tendered a qualifying offer that team would retain their top-10 pick and forfeit their 2nd round pick instead. If the Phillies finish with the 11th worst record or better they would forfeit that first round pick for signing a qulaified FA.
Are you thinking what I'm thinking?




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08-04-2013, 02:18 PM
  #746
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Are you thinking what I'm thinking?



Because that worked well when we started that for the Flyers

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08-04-2013, 10:29 PM
  #747
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Goddamnit man, this is brutal

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08-05-2013, 12:06 AM
  #748
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I mean this seriously, they could get the 2nd pick the way things look. Chicago is only 8 losses behind them so it within reason.

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08-05-2013, 12:16 AM
  #749
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Kind of like me with the Eagles, with the way the Phillies have been playing, I mostly stopped giving a **** if they win or lose. They really need changes, and it seems that no one is willing to budge. Seriously, I'll be surprised if Manuel is still around for the end of the season.

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08-05-2013, 07:12 AM
  #750
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I mean this seriously, they could get the 2nd pick the way things look. Chicago is only 8 losses behind them so it within reason.
Chicago's also lost like 10 games in a row. Their tank is better than ours.

I think maybe the most realistic possible highest the Phils could get is maybe #4. They're only 1 game out of the 5th worst record and then 3 games out of #4...but I don't expect the phillies to cotinue to win 1 out of every 10 games for the rest of the season so eventually they'll get back to being a .470-.490ish team. I don't see this team having a strong finish like last year though so I think they'll have a higher pick than last season. Just hoping it is top 10 for free agency protection... and also because this draft is according to Baseball America and some other draft evaluators said to be better than last year.

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