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Who is the Rangers #1D?

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Old
08-02-2013, 11:48 AM
  #51
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We have three first pair defensemen. Excellent problem.

McD is our #1, in my opinion. Can play in all situations. It's a toss up regarding who's better - McDonagh or Staal. On the offensive side, McD is better, no question.

You really can't go wrong with McDonagh, Staal or Girardi.

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08-02-2013, 11:57 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
We talked about this, though.

MDZ has points because he has received an unprecedented amount of first team PP minutes in his career.

McDonaghis clearly the best Ranegrs defenseman,but Girardi is the most important because we have two first pairing guys who can play the left, and only one who can play the right. MDZ and Stralman are both 2nd pairing quality.

I think Moore is already a better all-around defenseman than Del Zotto is. And I think he will continue to get better.
That is where I am--though I'd rank McDonagh over Girardi but partly that is because if any Rangers d-man has a shot someday of winning a Norris it's McDonagh. Some reason when we argue about left wings and right wings people seem to understand the differences and the potential problems with switching someone to an off wing but when it comes to defense--it's just lets get rid of the older not so flashy guy to make room on his off side for the younger flashier one. Girardi in his way is an extremely valuable commodity. He's not the fastest player--or the most offensively creative player--but you can stick him out against other teams best players--including elite ones and he much more often than not holds his own. 25-30 minutes night after night--plays physical, blocks tons of shots and is a mainstay on the pk and does not take a lot of penalties doing all that which if nothing else tells you he's sound positionally and disciplined and puts up 25-30 points a year. There are not that many good right side defenseman. Find a replacement near to where his game is now would be really difficult and very costly. Noticed on this elimination game that Dan has the least amount of points of all Rangers D--including Del Zotto, Stralman, Moore--which shows pretty much the lack of respect his game gets around here.

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08-02-2013, 12:01 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
Girardi is the only righty shot of the three. But there's no evidence that Mac and Marc cannot play the right side.
There is good reason to believe though if they did switch that they'd be less effective on the right than on the left side where they are obviously more comfortable.

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08-02-2013, 12:25 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
There is good reason to believe though if they did switch that they'd be less effective on the right than on the left side where they are obviously more comfortable.
That may or may not be true. We have seen teams in this league go with 5 or 6 Lefty shooting D and not miss a beat. My point is that Girardi is not the player either Staal or Mac are and him being a righty doesn't necessarily make him more valuable as we do not know how McD would play on the right side if the need arose.

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08-02-2013, 12:50 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
We talked about this, though.

MDZ has points because he has received an unprecedented amount of first team PP minutes in his career.

McDonaghis clearly the best Ranegrs defenseman,but Girardi is the most important because we have two first pairing guys who can play the left, and only one who can play the right. MDZ and Stralman are both 2nd pairing quality.

I think Moore is already a better all-around defenseman than Del Zotto is. And I think he will continue to get better.
Del Zotto's highest scoring season had him top-20 amongst defenders in scoring at even strength. Naturally in his rookie season he was seeing some pretty sheltered minutes at even strength. Saying he has points simply because of his time spent on an anemic PP just isn't accurate.

We've yet to see Moore consistently play top-4 minutes. Obviously his offensive production is way out of line with what Del Zotto has already accomplished as well. I think it's quite a stretch to say Moore is already a better all-around defender than MDZ is. Could he be? Maybe, but he has a long way to go before we can say that.

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08-02-2013, 12:55 PM
  #56
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Probably McDonagh at this point. Although Staal gives him a run for his money, when healthy, which hasnt been a whole lots over the past couple years.

I like Girardi, but the only reason hes an adequate first pairing defenseman is because hes had the luxury of playing with the 2 guys above the majority of his career.

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08-02-2013, 01:36 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Del Zotto's highest scoring season had him top-20 amongst defenders in scoring at even strength. Naturally in his rookie season he was seeing some pretty sheltered minutes at even strength. Saying he has points simply because of his time spent on an anemic PP just isn't accurate.

We've yet to see Moore consistently play top-4 minutes. Obviously his offensive production is way out of line with what Del Zotto has already accomplished as well. I think it's quite a stretch to say Moore is already a better all-around defender than MDZ is. Could he be? Maybe, but he has a long way to go before we can say that.
Moore played a top 4 role for one game in the playoffs and it looked like way too much for him frankly.

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08-02-2013, 01:42 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
Moore played a top 4 role for one game in the playoffs and it looked like way too much for him frankly.
Towards the end of the Boston series? I don't think any of our D looked too hot (except McDonagh) in those games. Roman Hamrlik</3

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08-02-2013, 02:07 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Off Sides View Post
I agree with you on MDZ.

I am hoping, but not confident that his game improves under a different coaching style. I think MDZ's best trait was always getting the puck to Gaborik going up ice and into the neutral zone.

From the eye test, I don't see a top notch power play QB. I see someone who can get the puck from his own blue line to the other, make a pass to someone who can do something with the puck from there. Last year and somewhat in years past instead of skating the puck from one line to the other, he has been trying to make these long stretch passes. Whether or not that was by design of coaching or not is debatable, but I certainly don't see that as his strength.

There are games where he looks decisive in a good way, looks like he is going to take charge of the puck. Then there are other games where he makes poor reads with and without the puck. Missing the net, regardless of the stats, going by the eye, I have seen him miss the net on wide open shots more than most players would. The toughest part about that is he misses in such a way the puck goes right out of the zone and it not only usually traps him, but also the other players on the ice who are driving to the net looking for a rebound that does not come because he missed the net.

As far as stats, look at his total power play time per year over the years, look where that ranks in the NHL as a whole. He is right up there amongst the top of the league in total power play time and his ranking in terms of points on the power play do not reflect how much time he has received. MDZ had two more points than McD and McD had almost no power play time while MDZ had the most of any defense.
Yep. This is what I was saying. Criticize one aspect of his game, and now we're burning him at the stake. Richards finished 3rd in points, did he have a good year?

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08-02-2013, 02:16 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
That may or may not be true. We have seen teams in this league go with 5 or 6 Lefty shooting D and not miss a beat. My point is that Girardi is not the player either Staal or Mac are and him being a righty doesn't necessarily make him more valuable as we do not know how McD would play on the right side if the need arose.
My point is switching guys to a different position than the one they're used to is not likely to make them better players. Right wings and left wings very often have problems when forced by circumstance to the opposite wing. Defense is an even trickier position than forward and your mistakes much more likely to stand out. Del Zotto for one has gone to the right side on occasion and is definitely not as good on the right as the left. McDonagh could probably go over and do fairly well but probably won't be quite as good on the right as on the left.

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08-02-2013, 04:02 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
That's just wrong. And the numbers don't bear it out.
He has missed less shots than more established Dman that these boards rave about. Take a look.

He has 41 missed shots, ranked #24.
Behind
Dan Boyle (57)
Pieterangelo (57)
Big Buff (56)
Doughty (55)
Yandle (55)
Chara (54)
Weber (52)
Edler (47)
Voynov (45)
Zidlicky (45)
OEL (45)
Jack Johnson (42)
PK Subban (42)
Carlsson (41)
Shultz (41)
Shattenkirk (40)

So before you recycle a meme repeatedly posted on the GDT, check the numbers.

Does this list include purposely missing the net to draw a nice rebound/ looking for tips from sticks? If so, that throws everything out the window.

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08-02-2013, 10:01 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
Girardi is the only 1 of the 3 who can play the top pairing RD, either Staal or McDnagh can play the LD. That makes him more valuable, eventhough they are better Dmen than he is.
That's absurd. If they were on the trade market who would get the most back? It would undoubtedly be McDonagh because he's younger, better, and locked up on a good term. If Staal had been healthy the last two years, he'd bring back more too. McDonagh and Staal don't devalue each other by their mutual presences. They both provide a higher level of play than Girardi. Therefore they are more valuable than him.

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08-02-2013, 11:02 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Kwayry View Post
It's your right to dispute how i use stats, but i at least use them. It seems to me, you base your opinion on DZ on no stats at all, but based on what is popular on these boards.


You are welcome.



Girardi is the only 1 of the 3 who can play the top pairing RD, either Staal or McDnagh can play the LD. That makes him more valuable, eventhough they are better Dmen than he is.
I think Staal might be moved to the right side. Keeps the play to his left, good for his eye.

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08-02-2013, 11:39 PM
  #64
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Towards the end of the Boston series? I don't think any of our D looked too hot (except McDonagh) in those games. Roman Hamrlik</3
I think it was a game in the Caps series.

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08-03-2013, 12:21 AM
  #65
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Your number one D plays the most minutes, hence it's Girardi...

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08-03-2013, 01:07 AM
  #66
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Marc Staal is without a doubt our #1 when he's healthy.

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08-03-2013, 01:14 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by McSauer View Post
Your number one D plays the most minutes, hence it's Girardi...
I think Girardi is a perfect #2.

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08-03-2013, 07:09 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by candyman82 View Post
He was given many chances. Seven other defensemen outperformed him
“In Columbus, there was a situation where I was working as hard as I could, but for one reason or another, I wasn’t getting the opportunities,” he said. “Here, I just came in with an open mind and I felt like I’ve gotten better every day. They’ve given me opportunities, and I’ve really tried to run with them.”

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/05/08...w=320&bih=287&

I'll take John Moore on his word, about his lack of opportunities in Columbus.

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08-03-2013, 07:18 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Del Zotto's highest scoring season had him top-20 amongst defenders in scoring at even strength. Naturally in his rookie season he was seeing some pretty sheltered minutes at even strength. Saying he has points simply because of his time spent on an anemic PP just isn't accurate.

We've yet to see Moore consistently play top-4 minutes. Obviously his offensive production is way out of line with what Del Zotto has already accomplished as well. I think it's quite a stretch to say Moore is already a better all-around defender than MDZ is. Could he be? Maybe, but he has a long way to go before we can say that.
It's not that much of a stretch. Just watch both of them play. Moore's positioning, skating, and process of the game are more efficient on the defensive side of the puck.

Del Zotto has a ton offensive skills. He may break out under Vigneault. But Moore is a better defender.

My only issue with Del Zotto is this, will he be worth the contract he will undoubtedly get.

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08-03-2013, 07:53 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by puckrush View Post
It's not that much of a stretch. Just watch both of them play. Moore's positioning, skating, and process of the game are more efficient on the defensive side of the puck.

Del Zotto has a ton offensive skills. He may break out under Vigneault. But Moore is a better defender.

My only issue with Del Zotto is this, will he be worth the contract he will undoubtedly get.
For me the goal for Del Zotto should be to get to 50 or over. He's just not on a par with the other guys defensively. He's not terrible but his size and strength issues are a handicap. Where his strength is in making creative plays and honestly I think the most confident I've seen him on the pwp was in his rookie year. He's okay enough defensively that he needs to focus more on the things he does the best. And for the Rangers when you have a point man putting up 50 point + seasons then you're pwp shouldn't be too shabby.

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08-03-2013, 07:59 AM
  #71
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Staal
McD
Girardi
Del Zotto
Stralman
Moore

The best part about those rankings? They're arguable. What a fantastic problem to have

I suspect this coming season, Moore will be climbing the rankings.

However, I still think the move was to trade DZ for a first and a top - 6 winger, and then sign a guy like Rozsival... but that's me

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08-03-2013, 08:02 AM
  #72
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In my opinion, it will be between Staal and McDonagh.

Depending on how Staal recovers from the eye injury he could be just as good, if not better, than McD; or he could be a notch below.

Either way it's not a bad problem to have.

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08-03-2013, 10:01 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by ColonialsHockey10 View Post
Marc Staal is without a doubt our #1 when he's healthy.
I have doubts.

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08-03-2013, 10:49 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
For me the goal for Del Zotto should be to get to 50 or over. He's just not on a par with the other guys defensively. He's not terrible but his size and strength issues are a handicap. Where his strength is in making creative plays and honestly I think the most confident I've seen him on the pwp was in his rookie year. He's okay enough defensively that he needs to focus more on the things he does the best. And for the Rangers when you have a point man putting up 50 point + seasons then you're pwp shouldn't be too shabby.
IMO his strength and size are fine and he plays a physical game. His drawbacks are his skating and his mentality. He isn't an awful skater, but he could be better.

Hopefully under Vigneault's system, new power play scheme, and what ever insights Samuelsson has, can get Del Zotto to break out.

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08-03-2013, 10:51 AM
  #75
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Saying Girardi is only adequate because he leeches off of other's is completely ignorant.

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