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Really good explaination of how Bergevin did right thing with subban.

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Old
08-04-2013, 10:26 AM
  #151
uiCk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakomyte View Post
Wait, we're upset that our GM signed our players at a good price? I don't get it. You complain when he overpays, you complain when he underpays because its not 'respectful', or something.

Bergevin gave Subban a contract based on what he had earned up to that point in his career, instead of giving him a contract based on potential, which is what lots of other GMs are giving in to with their young players these days, and some of them end up getting burned big time when those players don't reach their potential. I just don't get why MB is getting flamed for this contract. Its very easy to say that Subban was worth more money now, after a Norris-winning season.

I don't think it will be a problem paying Subban what he deserves now that he has actually earned it.
He earned it in 11-12 when he was playing #1 d man on this team effectivly. But seems like his performances were overshadowed by team sucking ass, managment and coaching changes, and the concerns of our "leaders" in gio and georges about PKs "attitude problems".

But yea i guess PK magically "earned" a 3x raise over 40 some games... Makes sense.

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08-04-2013, 10:29 AM
  #152
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I've said it before: this year is the best year to negociate a long term deal with a young elite player. 7-8M/y will be very good down the road.

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08-04-2013, 10:36 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Brainiac View Post
I've said it before: this year is the best year to negociate a long term deal with a young elite player. 7-8M/y will be very good down the road.
No matter how good he plays, and he will, if this team goes on "sucking" , PK better put up ppg, if not he's getting crucified in this city at 7+. Lol am actually looking forward to PKs pay day, since its pretty probable he will not be norris candidate year in year out, i wonder what this fanbase will say when hes going to have an "off" year (more likley a bad year for habs, where goalies and D usually take most of the blame)

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08-04-2013, 11:11 AM
  #154
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There is no doubt in my mind that PK will have his pay day, and it will be well deserved, another Norris in his pocket or not. He's has taken some serious leaps this past season and should take more this coming season.

I personally love the fact that the team will be negotiating with him as a RFA instead of as a UFA, where they could lose him for nothing. Even if a team was to sign him to an offer sheet, the amount would have to be very high so the maximum compensation for the Habs to even think of not matching:
  • Over $6,728,781 To $8,410,976 - Two 1st Round Picks, 2nd, 3rd
  • Over $8,410,976 - Four 1st Round Picks

The nice thing also is that if Subban signed an offer sheet, there can't be a NTC or NMC to the contract (see Shea Weber) which means that the Habs could match (therefore keeping him) and if they choose to do so, they could trade him to the most offering team down the road (instead of having to deal with restriction of a NTC or NMC), after waiting the minimum time of one year.

The Habs are in a great position and as a fan of the logo in front of the jersey instead of the number and name in the back, I can't complain.

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08-04-2013, 11:53 AM
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
There is no doubt in my mind that PK will have his pay day, and it will be well deserved, another Norris in his pocket or not. He's has taken some serious leaps this past season and should take more this coming season.

I personally love the fact that the team will be negotiating with him as a RFA instead of as a UFA, where they could lose him for nothing. Even if a team was to sign him to an offer sheet, the amount would have to be very high so the maximum compensation for the Habs to even think of not matching:
  • Over $6,728,781 To $8,410,976 - Two 1st Round Picks, 2nd, 3rd
  • Over $8,410,976 - Four 1st Round Picks

The nice thing also is that if Subban signed an offer sheet, there can't be a NTC or NMC to the contract (see Shea Weber) which means that the Habs could match (therefore keeping him) and if they choose to do so, they could trade him to the most offering team down the road (instead of having to deal with restriction of a NTC or NMC), after waiting the minimum time of one year.

The Habs are in a great position and as a fan of the logo in front of the jersey instead of the number and name in the back, I can't complain.
The habs would have been in a much better position.

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08-04-2013, 11:55 AM
  #156
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
The habs would have been in a much better position.
What do you mean by "would have been"?

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08-04-2013, 11:59 AM
  #157
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
I don't think anyone has argued that.
no one has, so what is the big deal then? we are arguing that bergevin might have to pay somebody he knows to be worth it instead of signing a player straight out of ELC to a long and expensive contract that could bomb and burden the team later on. hi myers!

seems like a lot of rage posts over not a huge thing. sure, most here were certain at the time that subban was worth a long term contract and that he wouldn't regress or take it easy - i amongst them. but then again, so did every sabres fan at the time myers got extended - im using myers and the sabres in this example but feel free to substitute for almost any team and any fanbase

at the end of the day, were gonna spend lots of money on a great player who'll be totally worth it and dare i say, subban became a better player because he did not immediately cash in. all the question marks about him: could he not only be a better player, but could he be a better teammate, could he tone down his on-ice ********, all of the -> ? <-, he answered big time

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08-04-2013, 12:02 PM
  #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uiCk View Post
No matter how good he plays, and he will, if this team goes on "sucking" , PK better put up ppg, if not he's getting crucified in this city at 7+. Lol am actually looking forward to PKs pay day, since its pretty probable he will not be norris candidate year in year out, i wonder what this fanbase will say when hes going to have an "off" year (more likley a bad year for habs, where goalies and D usually take most of the blame)
That's the result of an overreacting fanbase, not because of a bad deal. Besides, I'm pretty sure players are totally unaffected by what the fanbase has to say on forums and call in radio shows.

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Old
08-04-2013, 02:41 PM
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
There is no doubt in my mind that PK will have his pay day, and it will be well deserved, another Norris in his pocket or not. He's has taken some serious leaps this past season and should take more this coming season.

I personally love the fact that the team will be negotiating with him as a RFA instead of as a UFA, where they could lose him for nothing. Even if a team was to sign him to an offer sheet, the amount would have to be very high so the maximum compensation for the Habs to even think of not matching:
  • Over $6,728,781 To $8,410,976 - Two 1st Round Picks, 2nd, 3rd
  • Over $8,410,976 - Four 1st Round Picks

The nice thing also is that if Subban signed an offer sheet, there can't be a NTC or NMC to the contract (see Shea Weber) which means that the Habs could match (therefore keeping him) and if they choose to do so, they could trade him to the most offering team down the road (instead of having to deal with restriction of a NTC or NMC), after waiting the minimum time of one year.

The Habs are in a great position and as a fan of the logo in front of the jersey instead of the number and name in the back, I can't complain.
You're not mentioning that PK has an out now, arbitration, which would make him a UFA sooner. We'll see what happens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
no one has, so what is the big deal then? we are arguing that bergevin might have to pay somebody he knows to be worth it instead of signing a player straight out of ELC to a long and expensive contract that could bomb and burden the team later on. hi myers!

seems like a lot of rage posts over not a huge thing. sure, most here were certain at the time that subban was worth a long term contract and that he wouldn't regress or take it easy - i amongst them. but then again, so did every sabres fan at the time myers got extended - im using myers and the sabres in this example but feel free to substitute for almost any team and any fanbase

at the end of the day, were gonna spend lots of money on a great player who'll be totally worth it and dare i say, subban became a better player because he did not immediately cash in. all the question marks about him: could he not only be a better player, but could he be a better teammate, could he tone down his on-ice ********, all of the -> ? <-, he answered big time
Except Myers had already regressed from his rookie year. He had the classic ''sophomore'' slump. After that he got injured and played 50ish games, that also weren't all that convincing. Not quite similar to PK's progression until his ELC.
Same thing with Skinner, he suffered injuries.

There's nothing to substantiate the idea that PK became better because he didn't immediately cash in. It actually goes against PK's character, he really doesn't seem to be the type of player where money dictates his play.

As for him earning wtv amount we will give him, you are totally right, there's nothing wrong with that. That isn't really the point. The point is some players will get overpaid, so you need to counter that with good contracts to other players, we had a chance to do it with PK but passed on it. I understand the risk in investing more cash in younger players, however to me (and some others), it was a no brainer for PK.

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Old
08-04-2013, 04:17 PM
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
no one has, so what is the big deal then? we are arguing that bergevin might have to pay somebody he knows to be worth it instead of signing a player straight out of ELC to a long and expensive contract that could bomb and burden the team later on. hi myers!

seems like a lot of rage posts over not a huge thing. sure, most here were certain at the time that subban was worth a long term contract and that he wouldn't regress or take it easy - i amongst them. but then again, so did every sabres fan at the time myers got extended - im using myers and the sabres in this example but feel free to substitute for almost any team and any fanbase

at the end of the day, were gonna spend lots of money on a great player who'll be totally worth it and dare i say, subban became a better player because he did not immediately cash in. all the question marks about him: could he not only be a better player, but could he be a better teammate, could he tone down his on-ice ********, all of the -> ? <-, he answered big time
If Subban "bombs" as you like to put it, the real problem is replacing PK's minutes, not finding a way to deal with PK's $5 million or so cap hit.

There's always going to be a sucker to take him on their team, see Barker or Luke Schenn, so I think the downside of signing him to a long-term contract is very minimal, if any. Most of these boogeymen really aren't a problem once you have seen how things work in similar situations.

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