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Cole Trade Revisted/ Briere signing

View Poll Results: Cole Vs Briere
Cole 52 27.08%
Briere 140 72.92%
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Old
08-04-2013, 02:59 AM
  #176
Estimated_Prophet
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Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
I can't wait to see Briere pile up the points and see idiots posting advanced, ultra-precise micro-stats in some crazy precise random situations to make their point on how it was a "bad signing". I also can't wait for some to point out that us having a worst season this year if it happens (which will probably be the case), is because of Briere's signing and nothing else.

I personally am not a fan of what Bergevin has done with our D so far. I'm all for getting bigger players.

But if you think it would have been possible to get bigger by signing a decent and fair contract with one of the PWFs on the market, or by getting a prospect up (all our prospects who are close from being NHL ready, which none are right now up front, are small), you're dreaming. The reality is; getting Briere in MTL DOESN'T make any of our prospects stay any longer than needed in the minors. None are ready. NONE. N-O-N-E. And whatever you say about the "fit", all the guys who would have been a fit have been signed to ridiculous contracts.

Some of you guys would have rather if we done nothing. How the hell would have started in MTL? Tell me. Give up some examples. Please. I'd really like to hear it.

Thomas? Leblanc? No. None of them. And even if they did, they still would've been poor fits.

People go overboard with his lack of defensive game. He's not any worst than Ryder in that aspect of the game. It's as if people can't get over what happened in 2007. Or can't get over some of the cultural realities about him. Or can't get over we didn't pull a miracle and didn't trade for Chris Stewart when his value was at its highest.

And while I would like to have a tougher defensive squad and more size on the top-lines (which we've been working to get via draft lately with guys like Galchenyuk, Bozon and McCarron), I still can't remember when a team like the Habs had that many physical guys on their bottom-2 lines. Guys like Bourque, White, Prust, Moen, Parros will probably all play those kinds of minutes at ES. We're far from the years where we had Darche, Weber, Engqvist, Tom Pyatt patrolling the bottom-2 lines with Moen as an exception in the lot.

Cammalleri - Plekanec - Kostitsyn
Pacioretty - Desharnais - Cole
Eller - Gomez - Gionta
Moen - Engqvist - Darche

Gill - Subban
Emelin - Diaz
Gorges - Campoli

You guys remember that lineup? It's what we had back in the beginning of the 2011-2012 season. NO toughness. No power game. No way to answer to intimidation or to the physical play.

Versus now:

Pacioretty - Desharnais - Gallagher
Bourque - Plekanec - Gionta
Galchenyuk - Eller - Briere
Moen - Prust - Parros
White

Markov - Emelin
Tinordi - Subban
Gorges - Bouillon
Diaz

Tinordi, Bouillon, Prust, Parros, White, Bourque are all guys who are tougher than most of what we had this season. That's a significant change for the best. And while it's still not ideal, we're still way tougher than we were a couple of seasons ago. The Bruins start to goon it up this year, I'm definitely not as worried as I was this season. We also, for one, have more size in the top-9.

Galchenyuk, Eller, Pacioretty, Bourque now,
Eller, Cole, Pacioretty then.

It might not be the biggest step forward in history, but we definitely didn't get "softer" or "less physical" in any way like some people say. It's as if people can't look at the big picture.

Would I rather have a big power forward instead of one of the small guys? Jeez guys. Look at my post history. Of course I would. But it just wasn't possible this season.

And instead of giving an NHL spot to one of our eternal tweeners in Hamilton (Leblanc, Bournival, Thomas (who I don't hate or love any more than Kristo, but who is still just that at this point of his career), Holland), I'd rather give this spot to a guy who adds puck skills to a lineup who darely missed it last season, who adds playoffs experience and clutchyness, who adds a strong locker room presence, and who can give us an actual power play weapon up front, when you guys know we had NO power play specialist up front, excluding the one who did nothing right when we got past mid-April and who signed in NJ this summer. And while this is far from being the scenario of my dreams, while we definitely need a mean, tough power forward on our top-9 somewhere, I can see how that move was the best join we could make between "not giving up a stupid contract" and "adding a guy who makes us better".
Excellent post!!!!

People here seem to believe that it is as simple as Bergevin putting Desharnais, Gionta and Diaz under his pillow at night and waking up in the morning to find Stewart, Ryan and Coburn in their place.

Briere is a gamble due to potential health concerns but it is only a two year contract. Relative to the alternatives available at the time it was a good move.

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Old
08-04-2013, 03:23 AM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
Excellent post!!!!

People here seem to believe that it is as simple as Bergevin putting Desharnais, Gionta and Diaz under his pillow at night and waking up in the morning to find Stewart, Ryan and Coburn in their place.

Briere is a gamble due to potential health concerns but it is only a two year contract. Relative to the alternatives available at the time it was a good move.
Yeah, as long as guys like you or Higgs keep comparing the move to herpes, syphilis, or the holocaust, it's going to look like a good move. Still struggling to justify it as a stand-alone transaction though, I see.

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Old
08-04-2013, 03:41 AM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Yeah, as long as guys like you or Higgs keep comparing the move to herpes, syphilis, or the holocaust, it's going to look like a good move. Still struggling to justify it as a stand-alone transaction though, I see.
You can put Marc Bergevin and Rick Dudley in our corner as well......

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08-04-2013, 05:19 AM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
You can put Marc Bergevin and Rick Dudley in our corner as well......
Whatever that means, good for you guys.

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Old
08-04-2013, 07:39 AM
  #180
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
You can put Marc Bergevin and Rick Dudley in our corner as well......
Soo, you're really saying you're completely full of **** and can't really support your opinion, excellent.

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08-04-2013, 08:40 AM
  #181
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Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
I can't wait to see Briere pile up the points and see idiots posting advanced, ultra-precise micro-stats in some crazy precise random situations to make their point on how it was a "bad signing".
Briere's not a bad player. Nobody is saying he is. But it doesn't matter if he puts up points, offense is not the problem. Size is. He can put up all the points he wants but its a team game. Briere isn't really going to make our other players better. A big forward would've. We need to stop focusing on the grain of sand and start looking at the beach.

I don't care if Briere puts up 65 points. Its more of what we already had. We were a one dimensional team before this and it looked like we were heading in the right direction, now we've taken a step back. Look at the big picture here.


Last edited by Lafleurs Guy: 08-04-2013 at 09:06 AM.
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Old
08-04-2013, 08:51 AM
  #182
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Originally Posted by HarryHabs View Post
So much free hate for Cole. Dude had a rough season just like Briere.
Funny how players over 30, and especially 35, keep having 'rough' seasons... see my 100 posts on the fact that in the NHL now, 30 is the new 40.

Cole and DB will never have a great season again. Too old for this NHL.

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Old
08-04-2013, 09:54 AM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
I think you only subtract from the bottom up. So as long as there's cap room, then if one of the other available post-Briere-signing players is better than our 13th forward or 8th defenseman, then there is roster space to sign them.

I'd rather have player assets than cap space... in August, anyway. Habs considered signing Morrow, that seems to be true. Not so sure about Jagr - his side might have been the sole source for any reputed interest in him from the Habs? Whether Morrow or the Habs ultimately backed off, we don't know, but at any rate, roster space did not seem to preclude the consideration of adding him.

Personally, I'd rather have had Morrow than Briere, actually. But I still don't see how it becomes either/or. Unless Morrow himself looks at the Habs top-9 and feels like he wouldn't have as much opportunity to play in Montreal, and crosses the team off his list accordingly. Which didn't seem to happen - after all, he proceeded to talk with the team and weigh the option of signing here, apparently. (Although who knows, maybe the nature of the talks made the possible lack of opportunity stand out more to him, and maybe that did indeed turn him off signing with us.) I guess we'll never truly know. But by the same token, we could have not signed Briere, then approached Morrow, and for whatever other reasons he might not have been amenable to signing with us, and we'd have had nothing.
Why the **** does anyone here care about Morrow? He's done, he's too old and would never fit in a cup window with Habs.

Forget next season. It's done. We are not going to win the cup. I simply cannot understand guys here who whine about not getting Brendan ****ing 90 year old Morrow to help us next year. We are not a contender.

Morrow was a guy you wanted in your cup window. He's now not even that guy, and he's useless to the Habs the next 2 years. At least DB will pot some goals and bring offense knowledge to the kids.

There is a serious lack of understanding on this board about what has to be done in the next 2-3 years, evidence being the constant complaining of not picking up over 30, over paid and useless players to what? Help us finish 7th next year and disappear in the PO?

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08-04-2013, 10:09 AM
  #184
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Originally Posted by Lshap View Post
I agree with everything you said; geez, I've been saying the same thing for weeks. It's like Bergevin addressed the leaks in our boat by purchasing another paddle.
That's just good writing.

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08-04-2013, 10:16 AM
  #185
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
Why the **** does anyone here care about Morrow? He's done, he's too old and would never fit in a cup window with Habs.

Forget next season. It's done. We are not going to win the cup. I simply cannot understand guys here who whine about not getting Brendan ****ing 90 year old Morrow to help us next year. We are not a contender.

Morrow was a guy you wanted in your cup window. He's now not even that guy, and he's useless to the Habs the next 2 years. At least DB will pot some goals and bring offense knowledge to the kids.

There is a serious lack of understanding on this board about what has to be done in the next 2-3 years, evidence being the constant complaining of not picking up over 30, over paid and useless players to what? Help us finish 7th next year and disappear in the PO?
I disagree. If you make the playoffs with a goalie like Price, everything is possible. How many teams saw Carolina, Anaheim or Los Angeles winning the Cup? It's happened many times before. With the parity in this league, I strongly believe that everything is possible and a 34 year old warrior like Morrow could be a great addition considering his grit and style of play, if signed at the right price and on the right terms.

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08-04-2013, 10:43 AM
  #186
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
I disagree. If you make the playoffs with a goalie like Price, everything is possible. How many teams saw Carolina, Anaheim or Los Angeles winning the Cup? It's happened many times before. With the parity in this league, I strongly believe that everything is possible and a 34 year old warrior like Morrow could be a great addition considering his grit and style of play, if signed at the right price and on the right terms.
Of that group only Carolina was a real shocker. NOBODY was surprised by Anaheim in the least. The only thing surprising about LA was their poor regular season, they were a great team. Tampa, Carolina... two of the worst cup winners in history and folks point to them like they're the rule (And both just happen to happen just before and after the previous strike.) You can't win the lottery without a ticket. That doesn't mean you should invest your savings in one.

Price is wicked. PK is wicked. We've got a lot of the right pieces right now. That's why it was so frustrating to watch us go get Briere. A shutdown guy would do wonders for us, so would a power forward. But Briere?????

Last thing in the world we needed was an old, smaller forward. So that's what we went out and got.

Yes, we could fluke out a cup. But if we'd gone and got what we actually needed, us winning a cup wouldn't be such a fluke. Minus Briere out of the lineup and substitute Bobby Ryan and this team is actually looking pretty good. Esp if we got a big blueliner on the back-end. Briere was exactly what we didn't need.

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08-04-2013, 01:10 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
Why the **** does anyone here care about Morrow? He's done, he's too old and would never fit in a cup window with Habs.

Forget next season. It's done. We are not going to win the cup. I simply cannot understand guys here who whine about not getting Brendan ****ing 90 year old Morrow to help us next year. We are not a contender.

Morrow was a guy you wanted in your cup window. He's now not even that guy, and he's useless to the Habs the next 2 years. At least DB will pot some goals and bring offense knowledge to the kids.

There is a serious lack of understanding on this board about what has to be done in the next 2-3 years, evidence being the constant complaining of not picking up over 30, over paid and useless players to what? Help us finish 7th next year and disappear in the PO?
Agree...but then why sign an even older guy in Briere, who had half as many goals as Morrow last year.

Some ppl bring up Morrow so much, because he fits a team need more than Briere and fits in with how many defend the Briere signing by saying that Briere was signed as a stop gap until Bergevin really builds his team bla bla bla....

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08-04-2013, 01:31 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
Tinordi, Bouillon, Prust, Parros, White, Bourque are all guys who are tougher than most of what we had this season. That's a significant change for the best. And while it's still not ideal, we're still way tougher than we were a couple of seasons ago. The Bruins start to goon it up this year, I'm definitely not as worried as I was this season. We also, for one, have more size in the top-9.

Galchenyuk, Eller, Pacioretty, Bourque now,
Eller, Cole, Pacioretty then.

It might not be the biggest step forward in history, but we definitely didn't get "softer" or "less physical" in any way like some people say. It's as if people can't look at the big picture.
Comparing our lineup to one 2 years ago makes no sense as Gauthier made a bunch of the moves you attributed to us getting tougher. The toughness that Bergevin brought in is Prust, Parros, Bouillon and at the same time we lost Cole.

People are saying we got softer because our top-9 is smaller/softer than it was when Bergevin was hired and it was a problem back then as well. Getting Parros does nothing to help our size issues in the top-9 even if he makes our average height better.

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08-04-2013, 04:14 PM
  #189
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Cole was just not ready for the season and not really motivated so not a big lost with his salary.

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08-04-2013, 05:13 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
Agree...but then why sign an even older guy in Briere, who had half as many goals as Morrow last year.

Some ppl bring up Morrow so much, because he fits a team need more than Briere and fits in with how many defend the Briere signing by saying that Briere was signed as a stop gap until Bergevin really builds his team bla bla bla....
Wasn't Briere available before Morrow because of his buyout? Also Bergevin buys into the french aspect, so I'm not sure if that was a factor as well.

My biggest hope wrt the Briere signing is the french aspect. Briere to me, seems like a guy with pride, a guy with heart. I can't see him coming to Montreal for a paycheck and to go down in history as a hasbeen that came for a paycheck.

But I think if Morrow signed here, he also wouldn't be a paycheck player, being Guy's son in law, has to instill some CH love / respect.

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08-04-2013, 05:57 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by macavoy View Post
Wasn't Briere available before Morrow because of his buyout? Also Bergevin buys into the french aspect, so I'm not sure if that was a factor as well.

My biggest hope wrt the Briere signing is the french aspect. Briere to me, seems like a guy with pride, a guy with heart. I can't see him coming to Montreal for a paycheck and to go down in history as a hasbeen that came for a paycheck.

But I think if Morrow signed here, he also wouldn't be a paycheck player, being Guy's son in law, has to instill some CH love / respect.
Yes Briere was available first but by only a few days, while fee agency started July 5th, Bergevin was able to talk to all UFA July 3rd, and while some teams agreed to contacts with players right away, all contracts were could be made official on the 5th.

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08-05-2013, 06:36 AM
  #192
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
You can put Marc Bergevin and Rick Dudley in our corner as well......
you mean like Gainey & Gauthier were "in the corner" of those who liked the Gomez trade at the time?


The "I agree with the moves the team makes, therefore I must be right" mentality really doesn't belong in a discussion forum... if that's the best you've got, why bother posting

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Old
08-05-2013, 07:28 AM
  #193
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Briere for me

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