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SKA St. Petersburg 2013/2014 season talk

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08-05-2013, 08:02 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by cska78 View Post
there's a reason, why no smart team and no smart nation would not want to join this league. Just from the roster that ska has one can have 2 very solid team in the KHL, forget the ceiling that was broken years ago, forget the competition...

vorky says - KHL is meant to compete with the NHL, do you see people cheating and getting away with it in the NHL? - I don't

I hope ska will always loose in the play offs, this is disgusting. And yeah - there's Anzhi for every Zenit, Denisov waives hello))))
I do

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08-05-2013, 08:02 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Vicente View Post
For all the haters:

List of all KHL winners

2009 Ak Bars Kazan
2010 Ak Bars Kazan
2011 Salavat Yulayev Ufa
2012 Dynamo Moscow
2013 Dynamo Moscow

No SKA! And the team never won any league title. Best for KHL would be if all teams had that modern marketing and business model of SKA. They clearly want to make ice hockey a more popular sports and KHL an overall better product.

PS:

What wins the league from teams like Slovan Bratislava or Dinamo Riga who barely get a decent team together?
The bolded part is ironic in the sense that Timstshenko said that they intend to bring the Jokerit business model to KHL, while it is in fact the SKA model that teams (including Jokerit) should be copying. Jokerit have been a losing team for over a decade and lack well behind in most front office areas compared to SKA as well(especially after Kekäläinen's departure).

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08-05-2013, 08:04 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by cska78 View Post
there's a reason, why no smart team and no smart nation would not want to join this league. Just from the roster that ska has one can have 2 very solid team in the KHL, forget the ceiling that was broken years ago, forget the competition...

vorky says - KHL is meant to compete with the NHL, do you see people cheating and getting away with it in the NHL? - I don't

I hope ska will always loose in the play offs, this is disgusting. And yeah - there's Anzhi for every Zenit, Denisov waives hello))))
Yours CSKA also is money bag with an awful manager. I like SKA, because they have ideas, best managment in Europe and very interesting roster. CSKA have money and that's all.

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08-05-2013, 08:15 AM
  #54
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Yours CSKA also is money bag with an awful manager. I like SKA, because they have ideas, best managment in Europe and very interesting roster. CSKA have money and that's all.
CSKA=SKA before 2010

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08-05-2013, 08:18 AM
  #55
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CSKA=SKA before 2010

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08-05-2013, 08:51 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crik View Post
Yours CSKA also is money bag with an awful manager. I like SKA, because they have ideas, best managment in Europe and very interesting roster. CSKA have money and that's all.
do you see a single positive comment out of me on what's going with CSKA right now? Does your comment have any relevance to the ongoing issue?

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08-05-2013, 08:51 AM
  #57
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I do
proof?

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08-05-2013, 09:01 AM
  #58
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proof?
Man, look at NHL player´s contracts, long term deals. It is all against idea of salary cap!

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08-05-2013, 09:14 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
Man, look at NHL player´s contracts, long term deals. It is all against idea of salary cap!
is the cap violated? are rules changed to make things better for the rich teams? are all the teams on the same level as far as the competition goes? can a KHL version of Tampa win KG?

don't fool yourself, kid.

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08-05-2013, 09:34 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by cska78 View Post
is the cap violated? are rules changed to make things better for the rich teams? are all the teams on the same level as far as the competition goes? can a KHL version of Tampa win KG?

don't fool yourself, kid.
What about Atlant? I think they are not in the group of the rich clubs but still they made it to the GC finals.

The problem is not that SKA's financial and player level is too high but that a big part of the other teams fails to compete with them. Still there is a large group of teams that can actually win the cup every year:

Dynamo Moscow, CSKA Moscow, Ak Bars Kazan, Salavat Yulayev Ufa, Avangard Omsk, SKA St. Petersburg, Traktor Chelyabinsk, Lokomotiv Yaroslavl, Metallurg Magnitogorsk...

Then there are several dangerous outsiders like Sibir Novosibirsk, Lev Prague, Barys Astana, Atlant Moscow Oblast, Severstal Cherepovets etc

Only teams like Spartak, Vityaz or Avtomobilist will probably never have a chance to win this cup just as it's not that likely to see Columbus, Florida or Phoenix winning Stanley Cup.

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08-05-2013, 09:42 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by cska78 View Post
is the cap violated? are rules changed to make things better for the rich teams? are all the teams on the same level as far as the competition goes? can a KHL version of Tampa win KG?

don't fool yourself, kid.
It is funny to follow statements of ppl who compare NHL and KHL´s salary caps. Man, that is a biggest mistake you can ever make.

NHL has salary cap to have average teams, because some myth of "everyone has to win SC". That is NHL´s point of view, based on US law.

KHL does not have salary cap to have average clubs, but to limit richest clubs not to pay big paychecks. Lets be honest, SKA has no problem to pay Kovy much more than now (reported 10M). Hope you get it.

NHL salary cap has another function than KHL´s. You can not compare them.

What do you want from KHL? To have salary cap as NHL at sum of 10M USD? Really? Sure, everyone has to win...

If cheap clubs want to be more competitive, they can lure more and more sponsors. There are many companies in the world, "Avtos" just need to work on marketing. That is called free market, which is not in NHL but we have it in KHL.

Btw, every club respects KHL salary cap rules. I asked a few days if posters understand how KHL salary cap works. I have not got an reply... how can anybody criticize something, if he does not know how it works?

I dont say I fully understand KHL´ salary cap rules, at least I try to get the idea.

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08-05-2013, 09:43 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Vicente View Post
What about Atlant? I think they are not in the group of the rich clubs but still they made it to the GC finals.

The problem is not that SKA's financial and player level is too high but that a big part of the other teams fails to compete with them. Still there is a large group of teams that can actually win the cup every year:

Dynamo Moscow, CSKA Moscow, Ak Bars Kazan, Salavat Yulayev Ufa, Avangard Omsk, SKA St. Petersburg, Traktor Chelyabinsk, Lokomotiv Yaroslavl, Metallurg Magnitogorsk...

Then there are several dangerous outsiders like Sibir Novosibirsk, Lev Prague, Barys Astana, Atlant Moscow Oblast, Severstal Cherepovets etc

Only teams like Spartak, Vityaz or Avtomobilist will probably never have a chance to win this cup just as it's not that likely to see Columbus, Florida or Phoenix winning Stanley Cup.
was it likely to see Tampa/Anaheim win the cup? Los Angeles? does theoretically every team in the NHL have a chance to win a cup? Do all the teams play on the level field? Are the descisions made by the league predominantly favor most if not every team in the league? Has NHL have multiple issues to rid itself from "super-teams"?

You understand, that you have no argument here. If I am your "Djurgarden" and I am weighing joining the KHL? I look at the playing field, look at my best case scenario budget - wise, factor, that players will probably take a marginal discount playing for me, vs. playing for a Russian team, do I in any shape or form expect to compete with likes of SKA? do you believe that ska, who can literaly put two really strong KHL teams out there on the ice are under any sorts of cap?

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08-05-2013, 09:44 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
It is funny to follow statements of ppl who compare NHL and KHL´s salary caps. Man, that is a biggest mistake you can ever make.

NHL has salary cap to have average teams, because some myth of "everyone has to win SC". That is NHL´s point of view, based on US law.

KHL does not have salary cap to have average clubs, but to limit richest clubs not to pay big paychecks. Lets be honest, SKA has no problem to pay Kovy much more than now (reported 10M). Hope you get it.

NHL salary cap has another function than KHL´s. You can not compare them.

What do you want from KHL? To have salary cap as NHL at sum of 10M USD? Really? Sure, everyone has to win...

If cheap clubs want to be more competitive, they can lure more and more sponsors. There are many companies in the world, "Avtos" just need to work on marketing. That is called free market, which is not in NHL but we have it in KHL.

Btw, every club respects KHL salary cap rules. I asked a few days if posters understand how KHL salary cap works. I have not got an reply... how can anybody criticize something, if he does not know how it works?

I dont say I fully understand KHL´ salary cap rules, at least I try to get the idea.
almost every line that you have written can be easily defeated...it's not a serious post, that can only work for blind yahoos...I don't want to elaborate, sorry.

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08-05-2013, 09:45 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
It is funny to follow statements of ppl who compare NHL and KHL´s salary caps. Man, that is a biggest mistake you can ever make.

NHL has salary cap to have average teams, because some myth of "everyone has to win SC". That is NHL´s point of view, based on US law.

KHL does not have salary cap to have average clubs, but to limit richest clubs not to pay big paychecks. Lets be honest, SKA has no problem to pay Kovy much more than now (reported 10M). Hope you get it.

NHL salary cap has another function than KHL´s. You can not compare them.

What do you want from KHL? To have salary cap as NHL at sum of 10M USD? Really? Sure, everyone has to win...
I am sure at one point in the future there will be a salary cap in KHL similar to the one in US major leagues. It's important to have teams compete at the same level. Nobody wins if 2-3 teams are 10 times better than the rest because this weakens the overall playing and entertainment level and you would lose many fans and neutral spectators of the weaker teams. Look at Edmonton in NHL or Florida. They know they can compete big in playoffs in the future thanks to salary cap rules and draft decisions etc. Would be nice to have Avtomobilist or Vityaz play at a higher level too in KHL.

But currently it makes no sense to reduce salary cap just to punish successful teams like SKA. I'd rather go with increasing the minimum salary from time to time so that all teams reach level of SKA.

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08-05-2013, 09:46 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Vicente View Post
I am sure at one point in the future there will be a salary cap in KHL similar to the one in US major leagues. It's important to have teams compete at the same level. Nobody wins if 2-3 teams are 10 times better than the rest. But currently it makes no sense to reduce salary cap just to punish successful teams like SKA.

I'd rather go with increasing the minimum salary from time to time so that all teams reach level of SKA.
there's no cap for ska, what don't you understand?

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08-05-2013, 09:48 AM
  #66
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Then we have no space to discuss, sad.

You wrote about "Djurgarden"´s. Look at Lev, Donbass - they can compete with richest clubs, Jokerit will be the same, Eisbären would be as well.

EDIT:

KHL has cap for everyone. Only problem is, I admit, that rules have changed every offseason. I have read many outdates infos about KHL´s cap at HFB.

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08-05-2013, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Vicente View Post
I am sure at one point in the future there will be a salary cap in KHL similar to the one in US major leagues. It's important to have teams compete at the same level. Nobody wins if 2-3 teams are 10 times better than the rest because this weakens the overall playing and entertainment level and you would lose many fans and neutral spectators of the weaker teams. Look at Edmonton in NHL or Florida. They know they can compete big in playoffs in the future thanks to salary cap rules and draft decisions etc. Would be nice to have Avtomobilist or Vityaz play at a higher level too in KHL.

But currently it makes no sense to reduce salary cap just to punish successful teams like SKA. I'd rather go with increasing the minimum salary from time to time so that all teams reach level of SKA.
Agree, bold are most important sentences.

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08-05-2013, 09:55 AM
  #68
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there's no cap for ska, what don't you understand?
Well. Why don't they sign Malkin, Ovechkin, Stamkos, Crosby, Kane etc? There IS a limit for them. Maybe not by the league but by themselves.

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08-05-2013, 10:03 AM
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Well. Why don't they sign Malkin, Ovechkin, Stamkos, Crosby, Kane etc? There IS a limit for them. Maybe not by the league but by themselves.
because at this stages of their careers they'd rather play in the NHL - which is truly the best league in the world, not only on the ice, but off the ice as well. And I am not glorifying the NHL here, it has it's shortcomings, but they don't stick out, as to comparing with the KHL.

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08-05-2013, 10:15 AM
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I think I should remind that Afinogenov, Artyukhin, Rybin and Grebeshkov were all notable for their really big cap hits. All the big pre-Kasatonov contracts were far from being reasonable.

I don't like the Ponikarovsky signing either, but it still appears to be a better decision than keeping say Zinovyev or Kozlov on their overblown contracts. You see, SKA is not the only rich Russian club, but for some reason no other club in the league manages to benefit Russian hockey as much as SKA does.

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08-05-2013, 10:20 AM
  #71
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almost every line that you have written can be easily defeated...it's not a serious post, that can only work for blind yahoos...I don't want to elaborate, sorry.
I stopped reading at NHL salary cap being based on US law...

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08-05-2013, 10:26 AM
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Jussi, I recommend you to study law backround of US major leagues, there is a reason why US sport league has CBA etc.

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08-05-2013, 10:36 AM
  #73
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I think I should remind that Afinogenov, Artyukhin, Rybin and Grebeshkov were all notable for their really big cap hits. All the big pre-Kasatonov contracts were far from being reasonable.

I don't like the Ponikarovsky signing either, but it still appears to be a better decision than keeping say Zinovyev or Kozlov on their overblown contracts. You see, SKA is not the only rich Russian club, but for some reason no other club in the league manages to benefit Russian hockey as much as SKA does.
Grebeshkov was out last year.
Kovalchuk alone will be making as much money as all the players you have mentioned, probably as all the players that had left. Now let's add:
н . Малышев ( Амур ), н . Клименко ( Атлант ), з . Кутейкин ( Салават Юлаев ), з . Рясенский ( ЦСКА ), н . Скачков ( Ак Барс ), н . Тихомиров ( Витязь ), н . Кетов , н . Шипачев ( оба - Северсталь ), н . Червенка ( Калгари , НХЛ ), в . Салак ( Фэрьестад , Швеция ), and ponikarovskiy, who's oh by the way is not a russian citizen and the amount of foreigners is up to the limit, which is no problem for ska, they will call Amayak Akopyan and he will say sim-silaybim or is it syus'ki - masyus'ki? and pull out a Russian Passport for him...
Yes, let's look at rich clubs like: ak bars, magnitka, dinamo - they all have hockey schools (ska poaches players away from others - has no good school, even though there's work in that direction as of late). CSKA - is a total mess, a toy created to appease Rosneft' without any good direction and a complete turmoil in the front-office.

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08-05-2013, 11:36 AM
  #74
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Yes, let's look at rich clubs like: ak bars, magnitka, dinamo - they all have hockey schools (ska poaches players away from others - has no good school, even though there's work in that direction as of late). CSKA - is a total mess, a toy created to appease Rosneft' without any good direction and a complete turmoil in the front-office.
SKA plays in the region that never really was a hockey hot bed, it's not South Ural where hockey is everything or Moscow with its old prestige schools. You can't grow talented and dedicated youth out of thin air. Nonetheless it remains to be one of the most popular teams in Europe and ivests a lot of money to grow the game. At the same time Ak Bars has 56% attendance, Magnitka – 79%, Dynamo – 64%.

Grebeshkov was traded in October. Prucha is out too. The biggest new signings not counting Kovalchuk (who can be put out of the cap, unless they suddenly changed the regulations) and Poni are Cervenka and Salak (who isn't a Russian or an NHLer to be overpaid much). I'm not eager to buy the info on the big Ketov-Shipachev contacts that was denied by the SKA management. And Making Russian passports (even if he gets one) is not just the SKA thing either, see the latest Kostitsyn news.

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08-05-2013, 11:40 AM
  #75
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And it's even more impressive what SKA does as they have the competition from Zenit in the city.

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