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2013 Philadelphia Phillies (MLB): Charlie Manuel has been fired (Aug. 16)

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08-05-2013, 09:13 AM
  #751
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I think the worst part is the fact that this team used to be somebody. Yeah, the Phillies in the late 90s, early 2000s sucked but you know they sucked and they never really did anything. With this team you've got a collection of guys who led this team to a championship or helped them get close over the past 5 years. And now they can't do anything to stop the downslope. It is just so sad to watch.

Particularly sad cause I feel like there were still ways to make this team work last offseason if the GM had any competence. Instead our big signing was Mike Adams and he put a bunch of bandaids on the rest of the team. I wish that idiot was forced to be out on the field every game to suffer what he's putting these guys through.

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08-05-2013, 10:13 AM
  #752
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I think the worst part is the fact that this team used to be somebody. Yeah, the Phillies in the late 90s, early 2000s sucked but you know they sucked and they never really did anything. With this team you've got a collection of guys who led this team to a championship or helped them get close over the past 5 years. And now they can't do anything to stop the downslope. It is just so sad to watch.

Particularly sad cause I feel like there were still ways to make this team work last offseason if the GM had any competence. Instead our big signing was Mike Adams and he put a bunch of bandaids on the rest of the team. I wish that idiot was forced to be out on the field every game to suffer what he's putting these guys through.
The Phillies are screwed. Amaro gutted the farm to "go for it" and now it's time to pay the piper. It's not gonna get any better until Howard, Utley and all the old guard are gone. The Phillies had a shot to begin the rebuild by selling off pieces this year, but instead, they want to extend Utley (for what I believe is basically face recognition for the fanbase to sell tickets). I don't blame Amaro for "going for it", but I don't have much faith that he can rebuild this team into a winner.

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08-05-2013, 10:19 AM
  #753
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Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
The Phillies are screwed. Amaro gutted the farm to "go for it" and now it's time to pay the piper. It's not gonna get any better until Howard, Utley and all the old guard are gone. The Phillies had a shot to begin the rebuild by selling off pieces this year, but instead, they want to extend Utley (for what I believe is basically face recognition for the fanbase to sell tickets). I don't blame Amaro for "going for it", but I don't have much faith that he can rebuild this team into a winner.
To be fair really none of the prospects he's traded has turned out to be noteworthy at this point in the bigs.

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08-05-2013, 10:25 AM
  #754
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To be fair really none of the prospects he's traded has turned out to be noteworthy at this point in the bigs.
Cosart threw seven no hit innings!

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08-05-2013, 10:29 AM
  #755
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The Phillies are screwed. Amaro gutted the farm to "go for it" and now it's time to pay the piper. It's not gonna get any better until Howard, Utley and all the old guard are gone. The Phillies had a shot to begin the rebuild by selling off pieces this year, but instead, they want to extend Utley (for what I believe is basically face recognition for the fanbase to sell tickets). I don't blame Amaro for "going for it", but I don't have much faith that he can rebuild this team into a winner.
I've said my piece about Utley staying but they aren't going to get better even getting rid of all the veterans. They won't get any better until the source of the problem is gone. That's Ruben. He doesn't believe in statistics and he refuses to give younger guys a chance. You get rid of the core, he's still going to fling garbage like the Youngs, Mayberry, Martinez, Lannan, etc. out there. He has no plan. He was just playing fantasy baseball the last few years with the team other men built and now the game is over.

Nothing will change until Ruben is gone.

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08-05-2013, 10:39 AM
  #756
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Cosart threw seven no hit innings!


Well the book is still out on him & Singleton. I do think Singleton will break the trend though.

All the guys from the Halladay & Lee deals have basically bottomed out. The catcher (can't remember his name) has been doing well in the minors but gets hurt a lot. He's about the only one in those deals that may be a main stay at the bigs. Although if you keep doing it you'll eventually get burned but that really hasn't happened to this point.

I don't like Amaro but that isn't a problem to me at this point. I think the terrible contracts & the inability to really draft major league talent has been far more of an issue under his watch.

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08-05-2013, 11:18 AM
  #757
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The thing that bugs me about Amaro is it doesnt seem like he has a plan...he is too much of a "lets just see what happens" GM. I think most phillies fans would be ok with this season being a wash if we had something to give us hope for next year and beyond, but there really has been no sign of that.

They have some talent from within (Ruf, Joseph, Franco, Biddle, Martin, etc), but not enough to build a contender with, even with Utley, Hamels, Lee, and Brown. They have no real assets to trade. Maybe they plan to buy big in Free Agency? Sure, guys like Ellsbury and Choo would be nice fits, but guys like that are going to get huge contracts...so I dont see that happening unless some how they can move Howard.

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08-05-2013, 11:23 AM
  #758
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Anybody know what is up with Miguel Alfredo Gonzales.

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08-05-2013, 11:49 AM
  #759
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Bastardo one of the players suspended.

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08-05-2013, 11:54 AM
  #760
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Anybody know what is up with Miguel Alfredo Gonzales.
Has to wait till his VISA is approved or something before anybody can declare and he can come over. Some people think he'll be a september starter.

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08-05-2013, 11:57 AM
  #761
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Well the book is still out on him & Singleton. I do think Singleton will break the trend though.

All the guys from the Halladay & Lee deals have basically bottomed out. The catcher (can't remember his name) has been doing well in the minors but gets hurt a lot. He's about the only one in those deals that may be a main stay at the bigs. Although if you keep doing it you'll eventually get burned but that really hasn't happened to this point.

I don't like Amaro but that isn't a problem to me at this point. I think the terrible contracts & the inability to really draft major league talent has been far more of an issue under his watch.
Amaro is a huge reason for the lack of drafting talent. They built this current core on inner talent. Utley, Rollins, Howard, Ruiz, Hamels all in the system. Brown was the last big prospect before Amaro came in. Now what do we have, Biddle and Franco, barely top 100 prospects. There are no Utleys and Hamels in our system. It's no coincidence there has been no one developed under him.

And then of course there is the Lee trade to Seattle. The amount we could've gotten for him after his WS performance was sky high. Instead, we got a bunch of crap. Whether through trades or drafting, Amaro has had a ton of chances to avoid this and he hasn't. He's a pompous idiot.

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08-05-2013, 11:57 AM
  #762
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Anybody know what is up with Miguel Alfredo Gonzales.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/0...-gonzalez.html

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Gonzalez throws a mid-90s fastball, along with a curveball, splitter and changeup. In a scouting report for Baseball America, Ben Badler notes that Gonzalez's curveball is his weakest pitch and that his splitter and changeup are just "a tick above average." Scouts who like Gonzalez rate him as about a No. 3 starter in the big leagues, Badler says, while others think he might be a back-of-the-rotation starter or low-leverage reliever.

Badler says, however, that scouts mostly agree Gonzalez is a Major League talent.

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08-05-2013, 11:58 AM
  #763
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Bastardo nailed for 50 games.

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08-05-2013, 12:11 PM
  #764
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To be fair really none of the prospects he's traded has turned out to be noteworthy at this point in the bigs.
That's because most of the guys the Phillies traded were still in A ball which meant they were a 3-4 years away from being major league ready.

The got ***** in the Pence trade. Singleton, Cosart and Santana.

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08-05-2013, 12:22 PM
  #765
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That's because most of the guys the Phillies traded were still in A ball which meant they were a 3-4 years away from being major league ready.

The got ***** in the Pence trade. Singleton, Cosart and Santana.
it was a terrible overpay. I think Cosart will end up being a reliever. Santana has playe pretty well this year but Singleton has been bad at AAA. But it was just a terrible trade. I dont mind the Oswalt trade though. Maybe Gose will be something. D'Anaurd should be up soon with the Mets.

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08-05-2013, 12:26 PM
  #766
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Originally Posted by Sh0otnSc0re View Post
Bastardo nailed for 50 games.
I hate seeing guys on the Phillies on lists like these. Bums me out. At least it wasn't someone like Brown, though I'm sure he (and everyone else) is juicing too.

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08-05-2013, 12:32 PM
  #767
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At least Brown is coming back in Wed. Hopefully he hits a HR or two.

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08-05-2013, 12:47 PM
  #768
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Originally Posted by Sh0otnSc0re View Post
Bastardo nailed for 50 games.
What a joke , If I was the GM/Owner I would release him , I'll be sure to boo him every time he gets to the mound if he ever does for the Phillies again.

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08-05-2013, 12:48 PM
  #769
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it was a terrible overpay. I think Cosart will end up being a reliever. Santana has playe pretty well this year but Singleton has been bad at AAA. But it was just a terrible trade. I dont mind the Oswalt trade though. Maybe Gose will be something. D'Anaurd should be up soon with the Mets.
Singleton is only 21. But he was suspended 50 games for smoking pot. I think that might be a mitigating factor in his performance this year.

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08-05-2013, 12:49 PM
  #770
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What a joke , If I was the GM/Owner I would release him , I'll be sure to boo him every time he gets to the mound if he ever does for the Phillies again.
Yeah. I think 50 games is way too light a suspension.

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08-05-2013, 12:59 PM
  #771
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Yeah. I think 50 games is way too light a suspension.
It should be a life time ban on the first time , Because now players will say "oh well other players are doing it , I'll just use them until I get caught doing it , I'll only get 50 games and I'll stop using when I get caught." Which is a disgrace.

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08-05-2013, 01:08 PM
  #772
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Singleton is only 21. But he was suspended 50 games for smoking pot. I think that might be a mitigating factor in his performance this year.
it might be, but he wouldnt be playing anytime soon here with Howard under contract through 2016 . To me Amaro's two worst moves are sending Lee to Seattle for two pitchers who cant throw strikes along with a CF with drug issues, and signing Howard a year and half before he was a free agent paying him through the age of 36.

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08-05-2013, 01:20 PM
  #773
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it might be, but he wouldnt be playing anytime soon here with Howard under contract through 2016 . To me Amaro's two worst moves are sending Lee to Seattle for two pitchers who cant throw strikes along with a CF with drug issues, and signing Howard a year and half before he was a free agent paying him through the age of 36.
I think people really overlook that trade because the Phillies got Lee back anyway. That was literally one of the worst, if not the worst, trade I have ever seen. I mean, given that Lee was coming off a great season, an even better postseason, and an excellent World Series showing, they sold him for pennies on the dollar. That haul was utter garbage. I was hoping to get someone like Justin Smoak or Dustin Ackley from the Mariners, not the heaping pile of **** that they got.

I don't remember if it was him or Gillick, but the Halladay trade and the original Lee trade were excellent trades. That crop of players I don't think will ever bring to their current teams what Roy and Cliff brought to the Phils.


edit: I guess Smoak wasn't on the Mariners when Lee was traded to them, they got him from the Rangers for Lee. My point still stands: someone of Smoak's ilk.

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08-05-2013, 01:31 PM
  #774
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Bastardo nailed for 50 games.
proof that ped's don't help everyone

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08-05-2013, 01:35 PM
  #775
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I think people really overlook that trade because the Phillies got Lee back anyway. That was literally one of the worst, if not the worst, trade I have ever seen. I mean, given that Lee was coming off a great season, an even better postseason, and an excellent World Series showing, they sold him for pennies on the dollar. That haul was utter garbage. I was hoping to get someone like Justin Smoak or Dustin Ackley from the Mariners, not the heaping pile of **** that they got.

I don't remember if it was him or Gillick, but the Halladay trade and the original Lee trade were excellent trades. That crop of players I don't think will ever bring to their current teams what Roy and Cliff brought to the Phils.


edit: I guess Smoak wasn't on the Mariners when Lee was traded to them, they got him from the Rangers for Lee. My point still stands: someone of Smoak's ilk.
Amaro made both Lee trades and the Halladay deal, as you pointed out the first Lee deal was great. Didnt give up much and without him they dont go back to the World Series. Giving away a Cy Young pitcher for nothing who was making $9 million dollars should get you fired. Look at what the Rays got for Shields, they got Will ****ing Myers and another top 30 prospect. We're in hell until Ruben is canned.

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