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All things considered, will Price improve this year?

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Old
08-05-2013, 02:47 PM
  #51
Agnostic
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If Price doesn't put together a superb playoff at his next opportunity he's destined to be Jocelyn Thibault II .
it's make or break time.

You can tell by managements moves that they recognize that the problem is not that a porous defense makes the goaltender look bad it's that a bad goaltender makes the defense look porous.

There's nothing to bounce back to Price has always been mediocre, and IMO there he'll remain.

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08-05-2013, 03:22 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
If Price doesn't put together a superb playoff at his next opportunity he's destined to be Jocelyn Thibault II .
it's make or break time.

You can tell by managements moves that they recognize that the problem is not that a porous defense makes the goaltender look bad it's that a bad goaltender makes the defense look porous.

There's nothing to bounce back to Price has always been mediocre, and IMO there he'll remain.
you are a joke..

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08-05-2013, 03:43 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by NewHabsEra View Post
you are a joke..
There's some exaggerations but the general idea is true. Price needs to put in better performances. He's got the 4th highest cap hit for a goalie, and he's our highest paid player. He needs to step it up.

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08-05-2013, 04:02 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
There's some exaggerations but the general idea is true. Price needs to put in better performances. He's got the 4th highest cap hit for a goalie, and he's our highest paid player. He needs to step it up.
A big season for him, very big season...he should be our teams MVP...

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08-05-2013, 04:07 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
There's some exaggerations but the general idea is true. Price needs to put in better performances. He's got the 4th highest cap hit for a goalie, and he's our highest paid player. He needs to step it up.
At 23 Price played great and almost got us past the Bs.
At 24 the team was so bad we came in 15th and Price played very well for us.
At 25 Price got hurt halfway through. Inconsistent? Maybe somewhat but we weren't far off from tying that series before he got hurt. If he stays healthy we might've even pulled out a win there.

The guy has played excellent hockey for the better part of three years now and while he crapped the bed at the end of last season, he's been excellent overall. And he's done it behind mostly crappy teams and bad bluelines.

No defending his collapse. He sucked at the end of last season but we've done jack **** about helping him and that's on the GM. If we want to get the most out of Price we need to stop idiotic signings like Daniel Briere. For some reason though, we haven't quite figured this out.

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08-05-2013, 04:34 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
At 23 Price played great and almost got us past the Bs.
At 24 the team was so bad we came in 15th and Price played very well for us.
At 25 Price got hurt halfway through. Inconsistent? Maybe somewhat but we weren't far off from tying that series before he got hurt. If he stays healthy we might've even pulled out a win there.

The guy has played excellent hockey for the better part of three years now and while he crapped the bed at the end of last season, he's been excellent overall. And he's done it behind mostly crappy teams and bad bluelines.

No defending his collapse. He sucked at the end of last season but we've done jack **** about helping him and that's on the GM. If we want to get the most out of Price we need to stop idiotic signings like Daniel Briere. For some reason though, we haven't quite figured this out.
I'm not saying Price has been bad overall. Agnostic has always been against Price, I don't share most of his views, but I do agree that Price needs to step it up. That doesn't mean he needs to win the Conn Smythe, but he does need to show a little more consistency.

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08-05-2013, 04:45 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by NewHabsEra View Post
Price is already excellent.. he has no control on deflections and screened shots.. will need better support in front of him thats it..
9-17 in the playoffs should be a clue for you but I guess deflections caused that .

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08-05-2013, 04:56 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
9-17 in the playoffs should be a clue for you but I guess deflections caused that .
Two kinds of posters use win/loss as a goalie stat. A. Those who have no clue. B. Those who have irrational bias or hate and want to grasp every straw to make it seem like they have actual arguments.

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08-05-2013, 04:59 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
Two kinds of posters use win/loss as a goalie stat. A. Those who have no clue. B. Those who have irrational bias or hate and want to grasp every straw to make it seem like they have actual arguments.
Ok, how about the stat about repeatedly finishing near the bottom in save pct. The arguments are so layered and overlapping but I am trying to keep it simple and straight forward for people like yourself.

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08-05-2013, 05:34 PM
  #60
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I think he has a good head on his shoulders. He isn't happy having a sub-par performance. He was fine all through the season, til the breakdown near the end. Even in the playoffs, he had moments of greatness. I think it's unfair to place the blame squarely on him, when our Defence was brutal and injured, and lacking the necessary muscle to clear the crease. Look at some of those goals in the blowout losses this year. He's consistently left out to try on rebounds and easy chances for the opposition. I hope by the time Emelin and Tinordi are both in our lineup at the same time we can have at least some protection for Price. I hope the new goalie coach helps him regain confidence and makes the most of his frame and athleticism.

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08-05-2013, 06:27 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
Not really, rask and thomas are very different than price.
rask is very different from thomas
rask is very different from khudobin
khudobin is very different from thomas

Yet they all posted stellar stats behind the Bruins team. If you think team defense has no reflection on the statistics of a goaltender then I really don't think you should contribute to this discussion anymore.

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08-05-2013, 06:31 PM
  #62
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If he plays like he did prior to the collapse, we're fine, but a goalie collapsing for an entire month is not something to write off easily, especially considering his inconsistent play in the past.

I think we might need to accept we have a top 15 goalie here and he's not the game changer we had hoped for, he's still plenty good enough.

I know I get labelled as a hater for speaking my view on him, but that's basically how it is. Some years he may break into top 10, maybe even top 5, but I don't expect it, and I don't think it's entirely necessary for him to be considered a success. We'd likely have drafted Brule instead.

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08-05-2013, 06:34 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
rask is very different from thomas
rask is very different from khudobin
khudobin is very different from thomas

Yet they all posted stellar stats behind the Bruins team. If you think team defense has no reflection on the statistics of a goaltender then I really don't think you should contribute to this discussion anymore.
I never said that teams don't impact goalies, it's obvious they do, but not to the extent you'd like to believe.

It's a very valid opinion that both Rask/Thomas are just better goaltenders, despite the fact they both played for the B's.

If this is all you got, if everything was different he'd be as good as the best, I think you're travelling down a slippery slope. I don't share your opinion, but I will continue to discuss it as I don't think you've offered any superior intellect on this situation. In fact, you've offered nothing.

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08-05-2013, 06:52 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
I never said that teams don't impact goalies, it's obvious they do, but not to the extent you'd like to believe.

It's a very valid opinion that both Rask/Thomas are just better goaltenders, despite the fact they both played for the B's.

If this is all you got, if everything was different he'd be as good as the best, I think you're travelling down a slippery slope. I don't share your opinion, but I will continue to discuss it as I don't think you've offered any superior intellect on this situation. In fact, you've offered nothing.
Rask and Thomas can be as good as they are, their stats are going to take a hit playing for the Habs, the same way that Price's stats would take a bump in a positive direction if he played for the Bruins.

You can't deny the fact that our D is just not strong enough around our own net and our PK was atrociously bad. Those two points is the difference between Price's save% in the final month and before Emelin was injured. Emelin went down, our PK got worse and our defense in front of our own net got worse. Couple that with Price's injury and you have why he fell off in the final month. That anomaly month is not the norm you want to believe it is.

I made no mention that Price is better than Rask or Thomas. Both those goalies were capable of getting to the cup final. However, so were Crawford and Niemi. All four of those goalies played behind defenses that were a lot better than ours.

Once Price gets a competent defence, his play will be able to go into the next tier.

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08-05-2013, 06:57 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
Rask and Thomas can be as good as they are, their stats are going to take a hit playing for the Habs, the same way that Price's stats would take a bump in a positive direction if he played for the Bruins.

You can't deny the fact that our D is just not strong enough around our own net and our PK was atrociously bad. Those two points is the difference between Price's save% in the final month and before Emelin was injured. Emelin went down, our PK got worse and our defense in front of our own net got worse. Couple that with Price's injury and you have why he fell off in the final month. That anomaly month is not the norm you want to believe it is.

I made no mention that Price is better than Rask or Thomas. Both those goalies were capable of getting to the cup final. However, so were Crawford and Niemi. All four of those goalies played behind defenses that were a lot better than ours.

Once Price gets a competent defence, his play will be able to go into the next tier.
His play will likely improve, yes. I'm not hating on Price here, but to say he would have the same numbers as two of the best goalies in the league is precisely why I feel he is still being overrated. Every excuse in the book is made for his poor play. The team defense was one of the very best in the league this year. A hard point to understand for some, apparently.

Of course his one month collapse is not his normal play, if it was he wouldn't be a starting goaltender. He was bad, it's ok to say so.

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08-05-2013, 07:01 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
The team defense was one of the very best in the league this year. A hard point to understand for some, apparently.

.
Wait, what?!?!?!

I'm not against your points (as Price's game indeed dipped by the end of the season, and the D collapse made it worst than it actually was), but the underlined just seems really wrong. Being good at puck possession doesn't equal being good at defense or at coverage or at crease clearing. One simply had to look at games to realize that the Habs D was average-at-best at defense, mediocre at coverage and pitiful at crease clearing.

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08-05-2013, 07:07 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
His play will likely improve, yes. I'm not hating on Price here, but to say he would have the same numbers as two of the best goalies in the league is precisely why I feel he is still being overrated. Every excuse in the book is made for his poor play. The team defense was one of the very best in the league this year. A hard point to understand for some, apparently.

Of course his one month collapse is not his normal play, if it was he wouldn't be a starting goaltender. He was bad, it's ok to say so.
We had a top team defense? Ok..

Read my post again. Everything went down hill after Emelin went down. We lost the elements that made us an adequate defensive team and went into an atrocious defense/PK team.

http://video.canadiens.nhl.com/video...20122013,2,681

Watch the goals in that video. Notice how soft we are around our net, how many soft spots in our coverage and how wide open the offensive team got? That's how we played EVERY night.

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08-05-2013, 07:07 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
Wait, what?!?!?!

I'm not against your points (as Price's game indeed dipped by the end of the season, and the D collapse made it worst than it actually was), but the underlined just seems really wrong. Being good at puck possession doesn't equal being good at defense or at coverage or at crease clearing. One simply had to look at games to realize that the Habs D was average-at-best at defense, mediocre at coverage and pitiful at crease clearing.
All of those supposed negatives led them to giving up the 4th fewest shots in the league. I'd take that any day. Defense, isn't about being pinned into your own zone and blocking shots and clearing creases, they are a small part of the big picture, puck possession is way more important.

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08-05-2013, 07:09 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
We had a top team defense? Ok..

Read my post again. Everything went down hill after Emelin went down. We lost the elements that made us an adequate defensive team and went into an atrocious defense/PK team.

http://video.canadiens.nhl.com/video...20122013,2,681

Watch the goals in that video. Notice how soft we are around our net, how many soft spots in our coverage and how wide open the offensive team got? That's how we played EVERY night.
I read what you wrote and simply disagree. The habs still out chanced every team as usual, albeit, to a lesser degree, but the inflated shot totals are simply not there.

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08-05-2013, 07:13 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
Wait, what?!?!?!

I'm not against your points (as Price's game indeed dipped by the end of the season, and the D collapse made it worst than it actually was), but the underlined just seems really wrong. Being good at puck possession doesn't equal being good at defense or at coverage or at crease clearing. One simply had to look at games to realize that the Habs D was average-at-best at defense, mediocre at coverage and pitiful at crease clearing.
We finished the year 14th for GA/G. So we weren't that bad. This includes our bump in the road where we allowed 25goals in 5 games. Our overall team defense was not nearly as bad as people like to say. Price is more to blame for our poor streak than the defense. Heck, some of the games we lost during that stretch, we actually dominated.
We were also top 3 throughout the year for our ES ratio, until we dropped to 6th due to that slump, and 5th for Shots against. You can't possibly have those stats and not play some decent defense, at the very least.

We certainly could have enjoyed the addition of a bigger/meaner version of Gorges but let's not pretend like we were pathetic.
I think people might have forgotten some of the goals Price was letting in. Quite often he missed routine saves.

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08-05-2013, 07:13 PM
  #71
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I'm not saying Price has been bad overall. Agnostic has always been against Price, I don't share most of his views, but I do agree that Price needs to step it up. That doesn't mean he needs to win the Conn Smythe, but he does need to show a little more consistency.
Forget about his younger years for a second.

He's only been in the playoffs two out of the last three seasons and didn't finish this time around. Against the Bs he was great and this time he had the opportunity to tie the series before going down.

Folks (not you) talk like he's sucked. He hasn't. He's actually been pretty good. Problem is that he's playing behind teams that aren't built for the playoffs.

Anyways, I hope he has a good year and I'd love to see him in nets for us at the Olympics. Competition will be tough but I think he's the guy everyone wants to be in net.

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08-05-2013, 07:15 PM
  #72
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We finished the year 14th for GA/G. So we weren't that bad. This includes our bump in the road where we allowed 25goals in 5 games. Our overall team defense was not nearly as bad as people like to say. Price is more to blame for our poor streak than the defense. Heck, some of the games we lost during that stretch, we actually dominated.
We were also top 3 throughout the year for our ES ratio, until we dropped to 6th due to that slump, and 5th for Shots against. You can't possibly have those stats and not play good defense.

We certainly could have enjoyed the addition of a bigger/meaner version of Gorges but let's not pretend like we were pathetic.
Exactly, thanks kriss

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08-05-2013, 07:19 PM
  #73
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Forget about his younger years for a second.

He's only been in the playoffs two out of the last three seasons and didn't finish this time around. Against the Bs he was great and this time he had the opportunity to tie the series before going down.

Folks (not you) talk like he's sucked. He hasn't. He's actually been pretty good. Problem is that he's playing behind teams that aren't built for the playoffs.

Anyways, I hope he has a good year and I'd love to see him in nets for us at the Olympics. Competition will be tough but I think he's the guy everyone wants to be in net.
Oh I'm not displeased with his overall PO performance, I just think the really good goalies have great PO series where they just shine. Price has yet to do that, but I do feel like he will.

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08-05-2013, 07:27 PM
  #74
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Oh I'm not displeased with his overall PO performance, I just think the really good goalies have great PO series where they just shine. Price has yet to do that, but I do feel like he will.
I guess I'm of the mindset that if we had better teams around him, we'd have seen some playoff runs already. Anyways, I'm hoping for a run this year too.

If Eller and Galchenyuk go to the next level we might make some noise. Still think there was a huge missed opportunity with us getting Briere though.

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08-05-2013, 07:28 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
We finished the year 14th for GA/G. So we weren't that bad. This includes our bump in the road where we allowed 25goals in 5 games. Our overall team defense was not nearly as bad as people like to say. Price is more to blame for our poor streak than the defense. Heck, some of the games we lost during that stretch, we actually dominated.
We were also top 3 throughout the year for our ES ratio, until we dropped to 6th due to that slump, and 5th for Shots against. You can't possibly have those stats and not play some decent defense, at the very least.

We certainly could have enjoyed the addition of a bigger/meaner version of Gorges but let's not pretend like we were pathetic.
I think people might have forgotten some of the goals Price was letting in. Quite often he missed routine saves.
We weren't THAT bad overall. If anything, the big difference came from a penalty killing who should have been much better, considering the effective at forward.
We just weren't very good either when addin all the components of what is a good defense.

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